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Fighting with the Ladies

Master Vampire

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
2,342
#1
Greetings,

This topic is dedicated to each and every one of you. I hope this place is going to be a great library of knowledge.

As a community and Lahmian players (the legal army list; not back-of-the-book), we can share a number of items for all to read and use:

  • thoughts
  • losses
  • victories
  • ideas
  • tactics
  • unit choosing
  • kitting our characters
  • army set ups

These are all individual points that a new Lahmian player is going to discover. But seasoned players can help a little, somewhat like a teacher in the arts of war (don't tell me that isn't your dreamjob :tongue:). A seasoned player is well aware of advantages and disadvantages of playing as a Lahmian, and would be more than capable of giving pointers, showing examples of when things would work and when not, etc.

This topic is thus not an usual topic. This topic is not directed to the discussion of using Lahmians, but rather directed at summing up players experiences in regards to fighting with the Lahmians. So please keep that in mind when you post.

Different people think differently, to say it plainly. This is entirely correct. Hence feel free to ask that person in a PM (or even get a discussion going in a separate topic) to show you how, perhaps even to be more precise (eg, against which army did he use this tactic/idea/set up/etc?).

Having written all that, I took this iniative for you all to add to this library of knowledge, as to it becoming a great beginning place for new Lahmian players to find tactics and useful pointers.

Basically, write anything down you can remember fighting with Lahmians! Let's get this going. :D
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#2
I've played with Lahmians twice so far: the key is synergy. Add a Cursed Book to a Wight Lord or Thrall nearby to your General and they will be nearly unstoppable. I did lose my second game, to the Tomb Kings, simply due to the Curse... a mistake that shall not be made again.
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
136
#3
Last tournament I particiated in with Lahmia, I used this combination:

Lahmia Lord
Level 3 Necromancer
Sword of Might
Quickblood
Innocence Lost
Black Periapt
Beguile

Necromancer
Level 2 Necromancer
Book of Arkhan
Dispel Scroll

Vampire Thrall
Battle Standard Bearer
Sword of Battle
Innocence Lost

It ended 16th out of 120 or so, in the danish GF (biggest danish tournament).


This time I will (inspired by your cursed book idea) use this list of characters in a heavy cavalry army, with 2x10 cavalry:

Lahmia Count
Level 2 Necromancer
Sword of Might
Innocence Lost
Quickblood
Black Periapt
Beguile
Barded Steed

Vampire Thrall
Battle Standard Bearer
Sword of Battle
Innocence Lost

Necromancer
Level 2 Necromancer
Book of Arkhan
Dispel Scroll

Necromancer
Level 2 Necromancer
Cursed book OR skullstaff (either will protect my count from harm, skullstaff will catch magic stuff so I can avoid, but I think the range is too low for the cost, the cursed book looks promising though, works even when in challenge, and your vampire(s) should be able to cut most rank&file units down if they try to charge & kill the necromancer;)
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#4
Sounds great! I'm going to a tournament on the 15th of September with Lahmians, I'll be using a character selection very similar to the first one you posted, only with the Cursed Book (On a Wight Lord: cheaper, and actually has a save).

Lahmia Lord
Level 3 Necromancer
Sword of Might
Quickblood
Innocence Lost
Black Periapt

Necromancer
Level 2 Necromancer
Book of Arkhan
Dispel Scroll

Wight Lord
Battle Standard Bearer
Cursed Book
Barded Nightmare, Heavy Armour

I'm going to convert a Lahmian BSB soon, but it's not a model that'll be legal in GW tournaments...
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
784
#5
Great idea for a topic MV...

I want to be able to mull over the thoughts and ideas I have, and what I have learnt from playing Lahmians exclusively over the past couple of years before I put to words (and when I do, it will be long winded and snobby, as I think you have all come to expect from me, oh crap, I just broke a nail typing that! :tongue:). But I do promise I will write something tomorrow to add to this discussion (it's almost 10pm friday night here now).

A thought to leave you with at the moment, looking at a few of the other kits and ideas that others have mentioned so far, is that if you are going to take a BSB in a Lahmian army, I think the better option is a Wight Lord BSB, rather than a thrall BSB. This is based around purely surivivability. A thrall is just more fragile than a Wight Lord is, and if you are going to spend the pts on a BSB, then imo you should go with the option that has a better chance of sticking around. And in this case, it's the Wight Lord. It has the armour save, that the thrall lacks, and as well, give it the gem of blood so that if an opponent trying to take down your BSB does actually make it past the armour save, then the wound can be rebounded straight back on them.

More to follow....
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#6
After the Gem of Blood lost me the entire last tournament (No joke!) I fought in, I won't use it for the forseeable future. Cursed Book yum yum. Plus most opponents will assume the Sword of Kings, giving me a psychological advantage at first...
 
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Messages
136
#7
A. 3 Rank&File models charge you, and attack your Wight Lord

B. 3 Rank&File models charge you, whereas 2 of them are cut down. The remaining one hit your Vampire Thrall

Seeing as there is less risk involving weak to normal rank&file when using Lahmia BSB, than Wight lord BSB, and she provide more kills (4 attacks S5 compared to 3 attacks S4), I clearly favor the Lahmia.

The only thing that would hurt, would be heavely armoured knights / other evil stuff, in which case (if I know they will charge me), I put my count/lord next to the thrall, and she's pretty much invincible to knights as well;)
 
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Messages
784
#8
Your Lahmian BSB is still incredibly fragile though Nikolaj.

And you still have to hit those rank and file troops so they can't strike back. Everyone has seen it happen before in games where you fluff a roll. With no armour save on your Lahmian BSB, she is vulnerable. Whereas, with the Wight Lord, give him heavy armour, gem of blood, and they will have alot tougher time wounding him. Even make him mounted to make it harder still.

The BSB is not there to provide kills. They are there to make the army more effective overall, and to do that, they need to be able to stick around.
 
Joined
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Messages
136
#9
darknesseternal said:
Your Lahmian BSB is still incredibly fragile though Nikolaj.

And you still have to hit those rank and file troops so they can't strike back. Everyone has seen it happen before in games where you fluff a roll. With no armour save on your Lahmian BSB, she is vulnerable. Whereas, with the Wight Lord, give him heavy armour, gem of blood, and they will have alot tougher time wounding him. Even make him mounted to make it harder still.

The BSB is not there to provide kills. They are there to make the army more effective overall, and to do that, they need to be able to stick around.
I do like my characters to do more than just 1 thing. Providing -1 wounds for lost combats, providing kills and providing CR from banner, rather than just -1 wounds.


What's the difference between my Lahmia fluffing some rolls, and your wight lord fluffing his armour saves? except that if my char fluff, the enemy still need to hit and wound, whereas if you fluff yours, you're screwed.
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#10
Well, just think about it for a second: if your BSB is fighting someone with attacks you have to worry about, they usually have a high armour save as well (Imagine Chaos Warriors or Knights). If their striking first will kill two or more enemies with ease, then that means they're probably fighting an opponent that probably won't be able to hurt them that much...

Plus in my case with the Wight Lord, he and his unit will be striking first most of the time due to charging :)
 
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Messages
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#11
Nikolaj-Knude said:
I do like my characters to do more than just 1 thing. Providing -1 wounds for lost combats, providing kills and providing CR from banner, rather than just -1 wounds.


What's the difference between my Lahmia fluffing some rolls, and your wight lord fluffing his armour saves? except that if my char fluff, the enemy still need to hit and wound, whereas if you fluff yours, you're screwed.
A Wight Lord can still do all that as well, plus has killing blow, but is cheaper, letting you spend pts elsewhere in your army. Most importantly, has an armour save, backed by the gem of blood, and doesn't need to be baby sat by my countess/lady when knights come it's way.

The way that I play the Wight Lord BSB, is that it would go in a unit of say, 19 Grave Guard, with full command, and Banner of the Barrows on the standard bearer. The Wight Lord would be kitted with gem of blood/sword of kings combo. Plus as well, could park a zombie bunker behind the unit, with one of the necro's having the cursed book. Nasty.

Or the other option is to drop the gem of blood/sword of kings option, and take a Warbanner instead.

People should play test both a Lahmian BSB, and the Wight Lord BSB, and see how they go. I just personally find that a naked Lahmian BSB is more fragile than the Wight Lord BSB from my experience.
 
Joined
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Messages
784
#12
Neferata

I had a games day at a mate's place on saturday, and in the final game, a 2K grudge match against a long time rival/mate who plays Dark Elves, I got to field Neferata.

We had already had one game at the start of the day, only at 500 pts, with myself taking a necromancer, that had ended in a draw, so my mate was wanting to get some redemption. We were going to play a 3K cheesefest, but it was late, 10.30pm, and as well, I wasn't sure I had the models to field a 3K list, even with Neferata taking up 715 pts alone. So 2K it was, and I was allowed to bend the rules and take Neferata, while my mate decided to just go with the normal hero options for his list (which unsurprisingly, was heavily shooting focused).

The list I took was as follows:-

Neferata (w/ Bastet) - find her rules here.

715 pts

Necromancer Anita
Lvl 2
Book of Arkhan, Black Periapt

135 pts

19 Skeleton Warriors (Nef's bodyguard)
Hand Weapons, Shields, Light Armour
Full Command

215 pts

20 Skeleton Warriors
Hand Weapons, Shields, Light Armour
Full Command

225 pts

10 Zombies (Necrobunker)

60 pts

5 Dire Wolves

50 pts

9 Ghouls

72 pts

5 Fell Bats

100 pts

10 Black Knights
Barding, Heavy Armour, Shields
Full Command
Banner of the Barrows

335 pts

Banshee

90 pts

Total 1997 pts

The Necro ended up with Invoke and Curse of Years for spells, while Nef ended up with Invoke, Gaze, and Danse, as well as her own Shadowblood spell.

I can't remember the exact list my mate took, except that it featured two Sorceresses, a lvl 2 scroll caddie, and a lvl 3, and two heros/nobles, a unit of 20 Corsairs with hero, a unit of 10 cold one knights with hero, two units of 5 Dark Riders with RXB's, a unit 10 RXB's, two Reapers, cold one chariot, 5 Shades with RXB's and 5 Harpies.

Remembering back now, I realise that I completely forgot I had the periapt, and never made use of it.. doh!

But I can honestly say, that Neferata rocks! I did attempt to utilise her shadowblood spell a couple of times, but each time it was scrolled. Bastet is amazing. Knowing that any unit that you place Bastet next to at the start of your turn will have to re-roll any successful armour saves is just brilliant, and became the absolute bane of my opponent. On four seperate occasions, in four seperate combats during four seperate turns, he rolled a 6 for an armour save. Only to be forced to re-roll it as it was the unit targeted by Bastet, and then to fail his armour save.

And usually, I would say that the majority of the Lahmia bloodline powers are useless for their pts except for Quickblood and Innocence Lost. But with Nef having them all as part of her profile, it just turns her into a killing machine. Dark Elves have high leadership, but with the -2 to leadership tests because of Heavenly Creature, no one in base to base contact with Nef ever got to attack her. It was just like 'ok, this guy take a leadership test, passed. Ok then take this one, failed. Now this guy take a leadership test, failed. Now this guy, failed.' And then she'd strike first and kill them anyways. His hero would occasionally get to attack rank and file, but the damage was already done. He wasn't able to catch up on the CR.

At one point, I did miscast on Nef whilst trying to danse her unit into the flank of the corsairs who had flanked my black knights. That was a slightly nervous moment, but the miscast roll ended up being a double 6, and so the unit was dansed into the flank, and Nef forgot the spell for the rest of the game.

My Dark Elf playing mate is very schrewed, and has played against my Lahmians many, many times, so it was no surprise to be on the receiving end of a concentrated attack of both magic, and shooting, on one unit each turn. He did this on the 20 strong Skellie unit that was protecting the necrobunker, and then followed up with the cold one chariot charging the unit, while the Shades peppered the necrobunker from the side. It ended up seeing the necro dead in about turn 4 or 5.

By the last turn, he attempted the same on Nef's unit after she had wiped out his cold one knights and got rid of the corsairs that had flank charged the black knights, using a combination of all the shooting he had left, and the magic of the sorceresses (who were on a hill in the far corner with the unit of RXB's). He whittled her unit down to her and four skellies in the final half of turn 6, and so was able to target her in the unit. But even then, he was not able to hit or wound her, and not even Quickblood was required to save any wounds. He did have the chariot in a position where I thought he was going to try to charge Nef's unit, but I had charged the fell bats in as sacrifice the turn before. A mate watching at the time had said he thought I'd made the wrong choice, that I should have charged a unit of 3 dark riders instead that were nearby, but when two fell bats survived and pinned the chariot in place, I knew the right choice had been made.

So at game's end, it was another draw. My opponent tried to scrape up every VP he could to gouge out a minor victory (much to my annoyance, as by this time it was 1.30am and having been up since 8am, I was at the point that I really couldn't give a toss about the result, I just wanted to go home and sleep), but gave up in the end when he realised that if we went down to the nitty and gritty of it, there was more chance of it being a minor to me. He had his two sorceresses left, about 8 RXB's, one unit of 3 Dark Riders, 5 Shades, chariot, and the two Reapers. Whilst I had Nef with four skellies, and 5 Black Knights. But I had killed two of his heros, and captured two standards, and Nef alone was worth 715 pts. In the end it ended up being something like 1300 odd VP's for him, 1,200 VP's for me, so another draw much to his immense disappointment. The grudge continues...

What I learnt about Neferata is that, aside from rocking, she would be better in a 3K game rather than a 2K game. The fact that she takes up a lord choice, and two hero choices, does really come to bear. She can more than take care of herself (She never took a single hit in the entire game, so the ruby of lahmia was never needed to restore a lost wound. Mind you, that was also because any attempt I made to cast shadowblood was scrolled), and she is a rank and file killing machine (I never challenged with her against an opposing hero, as there was never a need to. Why put her at even the minutist risk, when you can wipe out the opposing hero through CR by massacring the rank and file?), but in a 2K game you do lose out on your hero options as well as your core units.

I would never take her against an army that was immune to pysch. So regardless of the fluff history, I would never have her facing off against Tomb Kings, or other VC. A mate watching the game came up with an Uber Blood Dragon combo, and was doing test rolls on how it would do against Nef, and Nef was losing each time. But personally, I just found that insulting. Like I would be stupid enough to accept a challenge from his Blood Dragon. I'd just send in the unit champion to his death and then wipe out Mr 'Look at how Uber I am!' Blood Dragon with the combat res. That and laugh as Bastet caused him to re-roll all his successful armour saves.

So all in all, Neferata is alot of fun to play with, and I didn't even get to see her at her best.. ie. no shadowblood cast, no hero's in base to base or in a challenge killed to give the blood kiss to.. I do hope they include her as a special character in the new VC army book :D
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
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Messages
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#13
darknesseternal said:
Neferata
Remembering back now, I realise that I completely forgot I had the periapt, and never made use of it.. doh!
Heh don't worry about it, both the magic items are Arcane so you couldn't actually have them both on the same character anyway ;)

Sounds like a fun game, Neferata sounds like a great character to use, not too overpowering. More expensive than Mannfred strangely though! I never liked her ability to make an instant Thrall out of an enemy character though, the Blood Kiss takes time...
 
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#14
Right. Well see then, subconciously I meant to forget that I had it as subconciously I realised that I couldn't have two Arcane items on the one character.... Yes, that's it.. *innocent whistle*

She is alot of fun to play with.. like you said, not too overpowered, and at the same time, she was never in any danger at all at dying or even taking a wound.. well except from when she miscast, but that can happen with any magic user..

As far as the blood kiss option goes.. I like it. I think the actual turning of an individual into a vampire happens very quickly. Everything that I have read in regards to it indicates that it does. It is the selection and judging someone worthy of it that takes time. But I understand where you are coming from. Neferata is said to detest males, so for her to grant the blood kiss to a male opponent during a battle, fluff wise you would say that she would not do this. That she would only grant it to a male that had impressed her and prove themselves worth to receive it over a long time. From a games point of view though, the ability is nice and you are not going to fuss over whether it is 'fluffy' or not during a game. The opportunity presents, you take it. :D
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#15
darknesseternal said:
As far as the blood kiss option goes.. I like it. I think the actual turning of an individual into a vampire happens very quickly. Everything that I have read in regards to it indicates that it does.
I think if pushed, you would not be able to find a single piece of background to support this... whereas I could go to Liber Necris, the von Carstein trilogy, Night's Dark Masters etc. which all give the impression that it takes a long time- usually involving the lucky victim being buried and having to claw his way up through the dirt. Nice rite of passage there! :D

From a games point of view though, the ability is nice and you are not going to fuss over whether it is 'fluffy' or not during a game. The opportunity presents, you take it. :D
Oh yeah, damn straight! I would simply justify it in my own mind as Neferata using the ultimate Seduction-style power to truly own the enemy character :)
 
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