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Grave Guard Detachment?

Vic

Black Knight
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Messages
384
#2
IMO 15 is the magical number, or at the very least 12 (2x6), so that even if they get charged, they aren't threatened to crumble in 1 turn, and you can support them.

On the other hand if you manage to manoeuvre them in a position, where they can't be charged, they'll be descent flankers. But I think that in most of the games there either aren't such positions, or the opponent is "guarding" them with something, so 10 GG in the mainline would make a weakness.

But who knows - if some pesky grail knights /w paladin charge them, making around 15 attacks that hit on 3, wound on 2 and ignore our AS, it doesn't really matter how many GG we have, against those 8-10 wounds, outnumber, Standart, BSB, War Banner, Virtue of Duty...
 

Danceman

The Devil in Pale Moonlight
True Blood
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
3,461
#3
Before I would have said a blatant no but now... we can actually heal them up again but still 10 feel too small. Probably nothing I´d advocate for. Not out of the question. Actually I advice you´d try it yourself. If you dont want to buy the box, proxy _atleast_ 10 battles before deciding. Any less and it´s not really giving them a fair chance.

cheers
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
114
#5
the problems with 10 are that (w/o command) they can be one-rounded too easily by either shooting or magic and if you lose them all then you don't get the chance to heal and they are just lost points. With command their survivability increases a little but their VP to your opponent doubles given the extra cost of the command and the VP bonus for the banner.

the biggest problem in that you can't heal/raise them above starting size...so if you start with 10 the best they are going to be able to do for you is function as a detachment of 10......

WC
 
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
574
#6
That's what I'm peeling at, to use them as a detachment (if it will work, I have no experience with it). I'll have another regiment of 25 GG's with shields. So what I was looking for was more tactical advices with a detachment.
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
114
#7
they would probably function fairly well as a detachment for flanking and pounding in the extra damage with great weapons; however, be careful running them on the outside and make sure that you still have good range with you wizards to make sure they don't get crumbled by a more maeuverable flanking force.

might just find a minimum unit of BKS to be more effective in this role given their better save and maneuverability.

WC
 
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
574
#8
It's all about the models. If I like something, and it isn't a total waste of points, I try to make up an excuse to buy it. ;)

Anyways, thank you everyone. It doesn't seem to be as hard to use the unit as I had imagined.
 

Grish

Liche
True Blood
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
5,444
#9
I can't be sure yet, but depending on the rules and what banners they can equip, I will probably use them as a detachment.
 
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
26
#10
Take 19-20 (19 if you always give them a character like me). Odd numbers are better in general and since you can raise them now over that is excessive and unecassary, 19 is great since it allows you to do everything you need.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
896
#11
My 4 units of 20 Grave Guard are unnecessary you say?

Nonsense I tell you!

They balance up my display shelf and look cool at the same time.
 

Grish

Liche
True Blood
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
5,444
#12
I think I might take a unit of 6 or 7 with the banner that does damage to whomever captures it. I'd arm them with great weapons and use skeletons/zombies to engage and hopefully hit in the flank with this unit. But who knows, a black coach/vargulf might work much better (although these cannot deny ranks)
 
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
138
#14
Angelica Von Carstein said:
Kain, I will have a unit of 25.. But would also like one of 10 with great weapons. ;)
I was going under the assumption that you were only going to be running a single unit of 10. But because you have the big unit as well, I can definitely see the little unit as an asset. Originally I think the little unit would just have been destroyed before you they could be effective, but now with the larger one to soak up some damage, I can see them working out nicely.

Cheers,

G
 
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
26
#15
It comes down to both a style of play and tradition. Traditionally, GG are better equiped with the hand weapon,shield from the last edition. However, if you play them all with great weapons combined with the fact that you can raise them back so easily, you'll see that just having a 20 strong unit with GWs is an amazing unit for so little points. Moreover, you change that unit to a real heavy hitter as opposed to the old style where you were winning more based on the static CR and a kill here and there. The older thought of playing with a 25 strong unit is also based on the idea that you might lose a couple from shooting but now since you can raise them, the extra rank is just unnecassary.

@Seth

I meant the unit size, not the number of units you run.
 

Arion

Vampire Lord
True Blood
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Messages
3,414
#16
If you have the 25 then they will be fine. 35 GG on one unit, ouch. They could support the other unit and create a very hard spot.
 

VladtheLad

Grave Guard
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
206
#17
I am kinda disappointed, they are so good yet you have to take 3 core infantry units and using another big block of gravegaurd is very expensive.
 

Nedar

Wight King
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
438
#20
LiveUndead: points are the same as the old codex. Change the Halberd to GW and its the same as well ;)

As for small detachments of GG, they are ideal now IMO. I wanted to run lots of GG; like two units of 20, one with shields and one with GWs. However, after running 3 test games with the new rules, I've found skeletons to be insanely effective (give them spears for the love of god). These little buggers can have a 4+ armor save if you fight lots of low STR attacks, or fight in two ranks if you don't feel the 2 extra armor points will help much. Best yet, you can raise dozens per turn potentially (or like 3 if you roll like a retarded seamonkey that phase).

I've finally settled on something I want to try. Two skeleton blocks with spears at about 13 models, bringing them to 20+ on first two turns. They will flank a unit of 13 Grave Guard with a Wight. 13(14 technically) is my ideal GG detachment. 7 wide frontage is the name of the game. Give them GWs, banner of the barrows, and sometimes the drakenhoff banner (Wight has Battle Standard to hold the center of my army). This unit will hit most RnF on 3+ (Helm of Command means 2+ if you want to really stick it to them :D). With GWs, they'll wound RnF on 2+, and with a corpse cart or two around and some Danse spells they will likely have ASF more often than not.

I'll put this unit between my two skeleton blocks, so it can't be flanked easily. I can get the GG to charge someone's front or a large unit's flank to get as many attacks as I can (up to 10 3+/2+ KB attacks). It might be better to do 9 with a wight for 5 wide, since if I end up flanking a lot, the extra 4 models might end up a waste against smaller rank units...i'll have to test it out though.

All in all Grave Guard rock in the new book. They are my favorite unit in the book, and I feel they are the best too. It's a shame we NEED 3 blocks of infantry and skeletons are so darn good with all the raising that it makes it hard to fit in more GG in my lists...at least the skeleton models rock too.
 
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