Ground Zero islamic centre

[Master Vampire]

I have to admit that it's a good idea. I think a lot of people misunderstand the problems they themselves cause because they tend to exclude whole muslim communities just because a small radical group is causing problems...

Nevertheless, our nationalistic faction leader of the PVV, Geert Wilders, is preparing a speech against building this islamic centre. To be honest, he's against building a mosque, which I have heard will not be built (but rather an islamic centre).

Anyhow, here's the news feed: http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/wilders-i%E2%80%99ll-decide-whether-i-visit-ground-zero

Our country is in the process of forming a (stable) government, in which VVD and CDA will govern and PVV will tolerate. VVD has no problems with the protest speech, CDA prominents do. They fear it will be perceived as the Dutch opinion towards building the centre.

What do you think? Is it justified to protest against building the centre?

Personally, I agree with PVV viewpoints: I think immigration has to be decreased. Our country is flooded with foreign people of low education, who also happen to have no future potential to grow on an educational level. More than 10% of the people here are like this. And that causes crime and integration problems.

I'm just giving the facts... We may be the most tolerant country of the world and probably one of the wealthiest, but we can't accept it being flooded by jobless people living on a monthly allowance while we work our ass off and pay the taxes which will raise because of that.

But it's not the muslims I have a problem with. I don't have a problem about building an islamic centre to understand it's religion. I have a problem with people who come here and then live on monthly allowance. I have a problem with those people especially when it's pointed out they parasite on our society and then tell us we're racists because he's a muslim.

Most of the Dutch political parties fail to realise this little nuance, which will cost them their neck if they don't watch it. PVV (Wilders' party) got 24 seats out of 150 this election, and it will rise, even if he's considered a bit too radical.

 

[Malochai]

But it's not the muslims I have a problem with. I don't have a problem about building an islamic centre to understand it's religion. I have a problem with people who come here and then live on monthly allowance. I have a problem with those people especially when it's pointed out they parasite on our society and then tell us we're racists because he's a muslim.

I understand what you're saying completely about immigration; the UK has immigration problems as well, which David Cameron wants to address. He wants to cap immigration into the UK on a yearly basis, I think. The problem is, anyone from an EU country has free rights to immigrate to any other EU country, due to the conditions of EU membership. That makes stopping immigration amongst European countries, especially, difficult, because we could then be in breach of the terms of the one of the most prominent international unions in the world.

 

[Danceman]

Of course they have a right to protest though I find the objection pretty weak, especially when you consider the relatives of 9/11 victims seem to be in favour of building it. We might as well start treating christians by the actions of the radicalization of the baptist and evangelist church. Then again the Muslim is from "over there" and different means scary.

Every western country seem to have an immigration problem which is an indicator of a larger problem. The world is not well and people are desperate. I have noticed similiar trends in Sweden as well, and I understand it. Not sure what to do with it though...

 

[TheBlackBey]

The attack was inspired by an ideology that is one interpretation of Islam. Like many religions, there is more than one ideology followed by the Muslim faithful. Unfortunately the Muslim community was widely, and wrongly, branded with this particular radical ideology and now finds it necessary to campaign for tolerance.

The Islamic center is being proposed by Muslims who hope to counteract that image of Islam created by a small group of murderous criminals acting on behalf of a radical faction. It's an extremist conservative group that is heralding this call against the center, and in so doing they have made themselves more alike the terrorists than they may realize. The irony is that these are the same conservatives that demand "liberty" and "freedom" for all Americans as a Constitutional right. Apparently there are some exceptions, such as in the case of Muslim Americans.

"this is humiliating that you would build a shrine to the very ideology that inspired the attacks..."

If we are to follow this quote's logic then we should be calling for the destruction of churches and mosques in and around the city of Jerusalem. After all, one could argue that these are shrines to ideologies that inspired the violence of the Crusades. Or they could point out that these shrines inspired the likes of a Mother Theresa and may have been worth having after all.

 

[Tamodan Varison]

I disagree with the protest against the centre on all points, and I side with TheBlackBey. Allowing the centre to be built is an excellent opportunity to promote tolerance and equality, which often seems to be a larger problem that immigration. Second of all, I also disagree that immigration is the problem, the problem is our failure to offer education and possibilities for the future to immigrants. I shall not disagree that there are certain individuals who cause problems, but I think it to be wrong that whole communities get blamed for that.

Personally, I agree with PVV viewpoints: I think immigration has to be decreased. Our country is flooded with foreign people of low education, who also happen to have no future potential to grow on an educational level. More than 10% of the people here are like this. And that causes crime and integration problems.

I'm just giving the facts... We may be the most tolerant country of the world and probably one of the wealthiest, but we can't accept it being flooded by jobless people living on a monthly allowance while we work our ass off and pay the taxes which will raise because of that.

I think that the time the Netherlands were the most tolerant country in the world are long past; particularly after the elections. Furthermore, you argue that there is no potential to grow on educational level for them. Isn't this our fault, rather theirs. Idem dito for the jobs, is it their fault that nobody will hire them, just because they have a different skin color. I'm absolutely not saying that there aren't a few lazy-bums who'd rather live from the governement, but it is definately wrong to burn the 90% of the people who don't. Integration problems. Again, there are a few who don't want to integrate, but generalizing this problem is definately wrong.

 

[Fear444]

Personally I think its a really dumb idea. There are plenty of places in NYC of islamic worship, and the vast majority of US citizens understand the difference between the muslem people as a whole, and those religious fanatic extremeists. But this just goes over the top. The site should remain a memorial to those who died due to the attacks, and those brave souls who fought to rescue their fellow Americans, as it has remained since the attacks. The Islamic people can have any other space of land for their super-mosque(sp), but that is a place for all patriotic americans, not just the islamic ones.

 

[Wiggins]

It isn't on the site Fear444. It isn't even visible from the site or the roads directly around it. The only reason it's known as Ground Zero Mosque or similar, is because that was how Fox branded it.

 

[Fear444]

Oh... Well then I apologise for my ignorance..

 

[Wiggins]

Don't worry, being deliberately misled is very different from ignorance, and either is utterly forgivable.

 

[C'Thulhu]

Like you said wiggins, it isn't visible from ground zero.

I have no problem with the mosque, but it is the right of NYC citizens to protest and ask it be relocated. The best I hope for is that the people who are running the mosque atleast understand their viewpoint and do their best, wherever they build it, to make it clear that they are there to enrich the community they inhabit and help their neighbors.

Now I'm sounding cheesy

 

[Danceman]

In the end we can thank Fake News... Errr, Fox news for this 'controversy'.

It isn't a mosque, it is an Islamic Center. The difference is important as the building also hosts other religions. The whole purpose of it is to bridge the gap between different philosophies and at the same time to give the finger to extremists who performed the 9/11 attack, "You can try to divide us but you will not succede."(paraphrased of course but I saw it on the news and couldn't remember it word for word).