Legion of Nagash Hero Level Characters

[Disciple of Nagash]

Ok, similar to the Lord level characters I think we should create the hero levels in comparison to each other.

We will be sticking true to the ideas voted through ages ago:

Wight Lord - Not yet discussed
Nagashi Captain - Not yet discussed
Necromancer/Acolyte - In discussion
Assassin - Not yet discussed

The hero level caster was already discussed elsewhere and I see no need to changed it:

Mortuary Priest - 90pts

M 4 / WS 3 / BS 3 / S 3 / T 3 / W 2 / I 4 / A 1 / Ld 8

Magic
A Mortuary Priest is a Level 1 caster. He may choose spells from either the Lore of Shadows, Death, or Nagash and may cast one Ritual of Nagash per turn.

Equipment
-Hand Weapon
-Scarab Jar: Strength 4 breath weapon. One Use Only

Options
-May be upgraded to a Lvl 2 wizard for +35 pts.

Special Rules
-Undead

Mount(one choice only)
Skeletal Steed............15 pts.
Hellstead..............15 pts.

Magic Items
Common/Nagash's Legion Lists up to a total of..............50 pts.
A Mortuary Priest must choose one Book of Nagash as described in the Magic Item section. This does not count towards his magic item allowance.

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Zenith Prince - 100pts

M 4 / WS 5 / BS 0 / S 4 / T 5 / W 3 / I 4 / A 3 / Ld 8

Equipment
-Hand Weapon
-Shield
-Full Plate Armor(4+ armor save)

Special Rules
-Undead
-Wight Blades
-Commander of the Guard: Any Undead unit joined by by the Zenith Prince can march move as per the BRB. He confers no benefit onto Nagashi units

Options
Swap shield for GW +2pts / GW in addition +4pts
Swap shield for extra HW +1pts / Extra HW in addition +3pts
Swap shield for halberds +2pts / Halberd in addition +3pts

Mount(one choice only)
Skeletal Steed..................15 pts.
Barding..............5 pts.
Hellstead..........................20 pts.
- Choice to ride whichever hero monster mount is decided for Nagash's Legion

Magic Items
Common/Nagash's Legion lists up to a total of...........50 pts.

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Nagashi Captain - 65pts

M 4 / WS 5 / BS 3 / S 4 / T 4 / W 2 / I 5 / A 3 / Ld 8

Equipment
-Hand Weapon
-Shield
-Full Plate Armor(4+ armor save)

Special Rules
-Nagashi
-Captain of the Nagashi
Feared and respected by the Nagashi followers, they will not dare flee within his sight, for they know their bodies will be put to better use as the mindless undead
The Captain may join any unit in the Legion of Nagash . Any Nagashi unit joined by the Captain may re-roll any break tests they may have to make. He confers no benefits onto Undead units.

Options
Swap shield for GW +2pts / GW in addition +4pts
Swap shield for extra HW +1pts / Extra HW in addition +3pts
Swap shield for halberds +2pts / Halberd in addition +3pts

Mount(one choice only)
Skeletal Steed..................15 pts.
Barding..............5 pts.
Hellstead..........................20 pts.
- Choice to ride whichever hero monster mount is decided for Nagash's Legion

Magic Items
Common/Nagash's Legion lists up to a total of...........50 pts.

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Reaper - 125pts (max one per 2000pts)

M 6 / WS 6 / BS 0 / S 4 / T 3 / W 2 / I 4 / A 4 / Ld 8

Equipment
-Scythe - Great Weapon


Special Rules
-Undead
-Ethereal (may only join Undead units)
-Terror
-Harbringer of Death
Clad in dark shrouds these fell creatures are much more than normal wraiths. They are the bringers of death, charged by the Dark Lord himself to destroy those individuals who would stand in his way
Reapers have the Killing Blow special rule, however it works on a 6 to hit, not to wound. Additionally at the start of the battle chose one enemy character. Against that character only the Reaper may re-roll any failed to hit rolls.
The Reaper may not be the armies general nor confer his Ld on any unit he joins.

-Walk Between Worlds
The Reaper has the ability to walk in the world of spirits, making sure he reaches his target without delay
The Reaper may scout as per the BRB, however he cannout use this ability if mounted

Mount(one choice only)
Skeletal Steed............20 pts.

Magic Items
Common/Nagash's Legion Lists up to a total of..............100 pts.
A Reaper may not choose any magical armour. He may not choose his magic weapons from the standard Legion of Nagash list, but must instead choose from the below:

The Blade of Souls - 100pts
As per the Legion of Nagash Magic Weapon list.

The Rendering Blade - 40pts
Barbed and jagged beyond reasoning, even a glancing blow from this weapon can rip a body in twain
Great Weapon. The Reaper has the normal Killing Blow rule in addition to his special Killing Blow rule i.e. he will effect a Killing Blow on a 6 to hit and a 6 to wound.

Great Divide - 40pts
This unwieldy scythe would seem to be far too cumbersome, however its strikes kill dragons and daemons in a single blow
Great Weapon - The Reaper's Killing Blow affects creatures of any size.

Unseen Death - 40pts
Light and as insubstantial as a ghost, this blade allows its wielder to attack with almost unmatched speed
Great Weapon - Bearer gains ASF and doubles their I in combat

Chill Touch - 35pts
The touch of the Reaper is deathly cold, sapping the strength and will to live of any foe it touches
Great Weapon. For every successful wound caused the enemy model permanently suffers a -1 to their S & T to a minimum of 1.

Spectral Blade - 35pts
This weapon has a life of its own, and can find its way past the stoutest parry, or defend from the strongest blows
Great Weapon. The reaper has +1 to hit. Also all enemies suffer -1 to hit when targeting the Reaper in Close Combat

 

[Belladamma Voltaire]

Call him a Zenith Prince or something equally regal sounding. I think the weapons options could be simplified slightly on the < insert name > to be a little simpler in the long run, there is no need to REALLY have the option of one of the other - just the weapons options followed by the option of a shield on top of that. It makes the whole entry a lot less convoluted.

 

[The Dark Lord Mr Fluffy]

Why can a hero model have 100pts magic items? He's a silly little priest but still!
I'd price the "Zenith Prince" (this name pleaseth me!) at around 95 pts, seeing as he's got +1 WS and Ld and the +1 to his armour save. I don't think he should have Rituals, he's just a Wight King - reanimated for strength and might, not fiddly magic

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Ah, the 100 points was a mistake, I'll edit that. (as per the other threads I'll keep on amending my first post as per discussions so we keep the stats in one place.

I also agree with the name Zenith Prince...it sounds cool.

Voltaire, I have re-written the weapon options is that what you mean?

 

[Belladamma Voltaire]

Something like that, yeah. Woo on Zenith Prince.

 

[Kaladas Harkon]

I don't think either of them should have a Monstrous Mount option; they tried giving that to DE and I haven't seen any non-Shadestar competitive list that doesn't have at least a BSB on a Manticore.

Otherwise, quite good.

 

[Bishop]

The priest shouldn't have a monster option (most hero level casters don't have an option for a monster mount any more). I can see a case for the Wight (since it's a fighty type hero... some of them still have that option).

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

I agree with Bishop. No for the MP, yes for the ZP. (That reminds me, we will need to start looking at monster mounts soon), I've also put in an approximate costing of 100pts for the ZP (unsure on that), and removed his ability to cast Rituals.

Personally I think those two are fine. It's the next two that I think are going to be more difficult. I have put my idea for the Nagashi Captain into the first post. What do you all think?

 

[Bishop]

Nagashi Captain - ??pts

Equipment
-Hand Weapon
-Shield
-Full Plate Armor(4+ armor save)

Options
Swap shield for GW +2pts / GW in addition +4pts
Swap shield for extra HW +1pts / Extra HW in addition +3pts
Swap shield for halberds +2pts / Halberd in addition +3pts

I think that he should cost about 55 pts, plus whatever you think the costs for the "Special" rules are.

I had a hard time trying to figure out those weapon options on the unit, but wrapped my head around hem, since on a unit you really don't want to waste a couple points here and there on equipment that you never plan on using in a fight. However, on a character... I wouldn't bother. Characters generally don't get any equipment included... and if they do, you certainly do NOT get refunded for them if you should not to use them.

So, I'd drop the shield, and all of the swapping silliness and just use these for options:

Add Shield (+2)
Add one of Great Weapon(+4) , Halberd (+3), additional Hand Weapon (+2)

-------------

I'd suggest the same weapon options I suggested above for the Zenith Prince as well. For a point cost here, you could probably even come down a little (95?).

It's a only Wight King (75), with +1WS, Full plate (instead of Heavy Armour and Shield, using my suggestions), and adding the "may March" ability to the unit that they join.

 

[The Dark Lord Mr Fluffy]

I don't think he should be Ws 5, and the unbreakable thing seems ott to me. I'd say stubborn more than anything else. Not really feeling the full plate as standard either, he's meant to be a living captain, is he meant to have the best equipment because all his friends are dead? Wight kings (Er... Zenith Princes ) should be our main fighting hero, the toughest nut to crack (hence the wicked bad armour ), while these Nagashi captains should help their unit (like being stubborn), but be quite man like in their stat line, after all, they're just men

Mage should be somewhere from 60 to 65 pts me thinks, he's a lv 1 but he can breathe fire! (once )

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

He is already Stubborn due to the Nagashi rule. However I think we need something to make it a feasible option next to the ZP. If we lower his WS, remove his full plate and also remove the Unbreakable special rules......well who would take him as a hero slot instead of the ZP?

 

[Kaladas Harkon]

Well, then we need two ranks of monstrous mount, like the WE. Something about the power of a Great Eagle, seeing as the power of the Zenith Prince is considerably greater than that of, say, a Dark Elf Master.

Then we need one about Dragon-powered, for the Disciple and Dreadlord.

 

[Bishop]

To continue along the DE comparison... you'd really need three of them then.

"Pegasus" equivilant - casters (hero/lord)
"Manticore" equivilant - fighter types (hero/lord... MAYBE caster-lords)
"Dragon" equivilant - Fighter type (lord only)

Is that really necessary to do?

Would a Zenith Prince really need to ride a "Dragon", or would a "Manticore" be sufficently powerful?

 

[The Dark Lord Mr Fluffy]

ZP on dragon is far too over powered. What exactly are base units of nagashi like before you add their Captain? He should definitely improve their unit as a whole, if they weren't stubborn in the beginning... Undead characters, can they join live units? It all gets Very complicated very fast, simplicity is the name of the game when it comes to fun and good armies. For fluff, ZP are better in combat, but they do nothing for the unit but allow it to march. I'd actually lower his Ld by 1 or maybe even 2, if the general dies, him and his unit should be well buggered.
For Captains, unbreakable is broken, excuse the irony What about re roll failed break tests? With his better Ld AND stubborn, they won't be running nowhere. I think we may have over done some of our heros, if they're way too good, they aren't as fun to use and not half as rewarding to win with. Thats just me though.

Quick recap, a Zenith Prince should be good in combat, hard to kill but not a powerhouse for killing power if not tooled up for it. Solo Combat role
A Captain should add something to the unit, some special rule, as well as some fighting power, but mainly he's just a fanatic descendant who can help his followers mainly. Unit support role, can be tooled up to be a hitty Jack in the box though (daggers of arachnos can really surprise any high toughness enemy unit)
The priest mage guy is well balanced I have to say, I'd go with 65 pts for being an undead mage (causing fear and being Immune to Psychology ain't free!)

 

[Marcus Von Drac]

Il leave the mounts for now I think, to complex
As for the Nagashi Captain, I think WS5 and unbreakable seems fine, I would just say remove the Full Plate and shield options, have the shield as an option, and he can take either Light or Heavy armour.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

OK, based on the above, here are my suggestions:

When it comes to creating the monsters we have a hero level and Lord level monster.
Drop ZP Ld down to 8 - He can join Nagashi units but he has not bonus for them.
Nagashi Captain - I think he should keep the full plate, he is still after all high up in the ranks. However drop the Unbreakable and allow him to re-roll break tests on Nagashi units. No effect on Undead units.

I think that should make both the ZP and Captain viable options.

 

[The Dark Lord Mr Fluffy]

Yay, now that sounds good to me

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Ok I have made the changes, does anyone else agree / disagree.

I will put forth an idea for the assassin tomorrow unless someone else wants to make a start?

 

[Marcus Von Drac]

I like them now. This way each is a viable option depending on what unit you want to buff. Looking forward to the Assassin.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Ok, so reading back the idea was that the assassin would be ethereal - I suppose like death coming coming to claim his victim.

So I will work on that idea, I've amended it into the first post.

 

[Bishop]

I don't think that any Magic items other then Magic Weapons seem appropriate for an Assassin type character.

Of the weapon choices in the Nagash list (see below):

- Dagger of Betrayal - 45 (not at all in line with trying to Assassinate [or claim a soul])

- Daggers of Arachnos - 35 (Poisoned and Killing blow together seems just wrong, not even sure if it's do-able by the rules in the BRB)

- Bane of Beast - 25 (you already ruled it out)

- The Dead Crescent - 10 (is useless when you already have KB)

So, you'd only be left with these two (one of which requires the Reaper to be mounted)
Draining Voulge - 35pts, Balista of Rampart Smashing - 30pts, and then the common weapons.


For the Reaper you might be better off just to dropping the options for Magic items altogether, and go with something entirely unique for just the Reaper character (like the DE Temple of Khaine upgrades for Assassins).

EDIT:
Also, Scouting option should probably be dropped if mounted (cuz that'd be too sick!)

 

[Sweeney Todd]

Actually, Poisoned and Killing Blow together does already exist, and the precedent is none other than Shadowblade. Poisoned and Killing Blow on the same roll though is a problem. I agree with bishop that the Reaper should not be able to scout if mounted and that the Reaper should have his own magic weapon selection.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Ok, I see the points on the magic weapons. I think in that case the Reaper should have his own mini selection.

So maybe:

The Reaper may choose one of the following upgrades instead of a magical weapon:

Can't thank of a name - 40pts
Barbed and jagged beyond reasoning, even a glancing blow from this weapon can rip a body in twain
GW.The Reaper has the normal Killing Blow rule in addition to his special Killing Blow rule i.e. he will effect a Killing Blow on a 6 to hit and a 6 to wound.

Great Divide - 40pts
This unwieldy scythe would seem to be far too cumbersome, however its strikes kill dragons and daemons in a single blow
Great Weapon - The Reaper's Killing Blow affects creatures of any size.

Need a couple more but how about them for a start?

 

[Bishop]

Some appropriate items that could be used either directly, or as inspiration:

Dark Elves:
Manbane (Toxin - 25) - Str = opponents To +1, to max Str of 6.
Black Lotus (Toxin - 20) - reroll 1s to wound rolls
Crimson Death (25) - GW, always Str 6 (regardless of modifiers)
Soul Render (15) - GW w/AP
Sword of Ruin (50) - no saves

DoC: Unnatural Swiftness (25) - ASF (might need to increase points here since you are always equiped with a GW)

BoC: Slaughters Blade (40) - GW, for each wound roll d6, on a 4+ a wound is "healed"

Skaven: Blade of Nurglitch (20) - models lose a point of Toughness for each unsaved Wounds (to min of 1)

I really like the last few I listed, they all seems appropriate.

I'd suggest naming the Repear's "Killing Blow" special rule something else... to avoid confusion.
ie. Death's Blow - operates like Killing Blow special rule, except that it function on the "to hit roll" instead.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

I wouldn't want to use direct copies as that just seems a waste of effort. However some there seem ok, perhaps we can adjust them.

Unseen Death - 40pts
Light and as insubstantial as a ghost, this blade allows its wielder to attack with almost unmatched speed
GW - Bearer gains ASF and doubles their I in combat

Chill Touch - 35pts
The touch of the Reaper is deathly cold, sapping the strength and will to live of any foe it touches
For every successful wound caused the enemy model permanently suffers a -1 to their S & T to a minimum of 1.

Looking at them I would suggest we increase the Reapers magic item allowance to 100pts, similar to how a DE assassin can take more than the normal allowance. I don't think it would be overpowered considering how limited the Reapers will be.

I also they the should have access to the Blade of Souls - this is the one weapon I really see fitting with the Reaper's fluff, and for 100pts I don't think it would be over powered.

Thoughts?