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How do I Sigmar?

Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
56
#1
So, there's a lot I want to get off my chest about GW and the Age of Sigmar, the main thing being that it's ... just ... not enough. It doesn't represent the same value artistically, stylistically, in terms of an actual game as WHFB.

Imagine how cool and fresh and amazing it could have been with just a little more design effort and mature thinking... Imagine the scope of a world like that. Imagine the complexity.

I heard it compared to Dark Souls, in that Sigmar was akin to Gwyn, on an eternal crusade with his cadres of not-dead-not-alive, inhuman, unearthly knights traversing through shifting realms and fighting desperately to keep the world from falling apart- not for any noble reason but because he is hungry, he is ravenous for the power of the realms- and will make untold sacrifice in order to do so. It could be dark, sprawling, intricate, interesting. It could be staggering in its style and its creativity.

Instead there is this... thing. Sigmarines. The models are clunky, graceless, unattractive, expensive, inflexible, unimaginative, and the artwork on top of all that is un-creative, juvenile, lazy, garish... It's all just the models but digitally painted, and badly. It's too pristine, too confined. There's no personality to any of it.

And don't even get me started on the gameplay...

It's all so horrid and I can't stand it.

I read an article/interview from Rick Priestly the other day about how the GW design office used to be creatively free. With giants like him, John Blanche, Jes Goodwin, IAN MILLER for crying out loud, all contributing such an iconic style, the atmosphere around the hobby was cool, interesting, encouraging. It was about stories and worlds, myth and legend.

I'm sorry if I rub anyone who thinks it's alright up the wrong way but it's so much not my cup of tea. I'm aware that AoS right now is in its first edition and the WHFB had 30 years or more to get to where it was, on top of building upon existing high-fantasy ideas, so I'm willing to give it time... but not without trying something first.

Of course, there's the definite possibility I'm blinded by nostalgia here. I was a big fan of the warhammer fantasy range ever since I was a kid. But when it comes down to it, I look at the stormcast eternals and their shiny stuff and I see all the huge, impressive new models and the revamp attempt and it's all just ... lacking. There's no substance to it that I can feel. The style of previous incarnations of warhammer was absolutely iconic. Gritty and macabre and sardonic, but there's no hint of any of that any more. It's all polished and digital and boring. It's just boring. It's all boring.

The best stuff these days is being done on blogs like Ex Profundis and Convertorium and places like this, Carpe Noctem itself, where I see so much cool creative work being done. Not at GW. It was a sad day when they axed Blanchitsu at White Dwarf. As far as I'm aware/concerned they just don't do it half as well as they used to. It's not artistic any more. It's advertising. Advertising for toys. Okay so they are toys, but by painting them, by converting them, by writing about them you put yourself into them. You turn them into an artistic project- painting, sculpture, literature, seriously. There is merit in it. Lots of merit. And also it's freaking cool.

And even after having said all that, I don't completely detest all the new models. There are a few quite cool ones out there. But as a matter of principle, I want to do it differently.

That's why I want to try a project... Stormcast but ... better.

Just look at the concept work John Blanche did for them before it launched- and by the looks of it, GW almost entirely ignored the spirit of the drawings.



They're so cool! It's like warhammer but more of the weird, more of the abstract. A style reminiscent of the new Kingdom Death game. Baroque, inhuman, monstrous. Full of grace and dread.

Of course, I have no models to post yet. I'm still in the google-trawling, research stage, but I'm going to post ideas and concept images... I'm imagining a style similar to gothic slash baroque renaissance slash classical greece, but with hammers and lions. Lions with men's faces. Hmm... Here are some pictures anywhoo. The colour scheme from Ex Profundis is almost spot-on perfect. Maybe I'll use a bit of my tried and trusted weathered bronze too, though. And purple. Can't get enough purple. And orange. Eh, I dunno. Whatever.



Also the realmgates should look like this. Because it's cool...


Also why oh why didn't GW get someone like Wayne Barlowe on board?

By the way, none of these pictures or photos are my own. I just found them and thought they were cool.

So, if anyone manages to get to the end of this rant, or maybe skip the majority of it, I hope it sounds interesting to you guys. I have no idea where to even start looking for models to use, but I'll continue looking around until lightning strikes. Any suggestions or pointers would be immensely welcome. Lemme know what you all think.
 
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Borgnine

Moderator
Staff member
True Blood
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
1,900
#2
I feel you, oh so much...

I've never seen these artwork from Blanche about sigmarines, but they indeed look cool. And with the inspirations you posted, it seems one can do something interesting out of them. To capitalize on their 'Order' part. Agent of order doesn't necessarily means agent of good. To make them cold, alien and brutally efficient warriors of Sigmar, with all the baroque decorations. That could be very, very awesome :) Worse part is getting parts for conversions, sculpting everything would be really time-consuming... And beyond Kingdom Death, I don't know where you could find such aesthetics. I've seen recently minis from Dark Souls game - that could also work - but maybe it's just an unrealized project... Greek-looking heroes and monsters would be much easier to find - I am sure I've seen them somewhere, I'll write it when I'll find it. Good luck searching inspirations for this cool project ;)
 

Mad 'At

Dumb enough to work
Staff member
True Blood
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
2,362
#3
@Orlaster: I can only second Borgnine here. I can very much understand your feelings on the matter.

I too had never seen those concept sketches, and never even imagined the stormcast could look that interesting. I would definitely be interested to see some minis in that style, although I fear I have little to contribute in terms of where you could get them.

About gameplay I can say that there is work done to include the stormcast in 9th Age, if that has any attraction to you and you community =)
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Messages
211
#4
You have hit everything exactly as I see it! And the funny thing is, its not too late for them to go back to the world that was... the world that was 30 years in the making and that they destroyed. I saw your blog the other day and was going to respond but after I saw the release of the new Orks this morning in my email I knew I had to come back and respond. They are exactly as you describe, blocky and juvenile looking. No character whatsoever! It truly is a shame.
 
Joined
Jun 27, 2014
Messages
106
#6
My first thoughts: What it's that 40k Ork doing on a fat dragon?!

I think 40k runs better than fantasy did, so GW is trying to make AoS more 40k'y. And in my view cans never had any character, no matter what color you dip them in.

This is how i remember 40k:
"Blue cans are totally ultra!" -
"I just primed mine white." -
"Awesome! But you need more bikes in a white scars army." -
"White what? I thought about a bright green tone."
"Salamanders?! Their codex years old! You won't have any chance against me. "
"But we have the same models."
"Yeah, but mine are blue. Blue cans are ultra, you know?"

Sidenote: I was the guy sitting in the corner crying with the 'Nids during this discussion.
 

Borgnine

Moderator
Staff member
True Blood
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
1,900
#7
Even if they're not as cool as normal Black Orcs, I actually like those new ones - if not for that horrid yellow scheme :frown: Oh, and the boars are really bad, with those serrated knife teeth... The fat wyvern is quite Orcish and cool, one problem is that it's as expensive as frickin' Nagash!

And not to stray too far from the topic, I saw these on 4chan's /tg/ - are they by any chance yours? They fit your idea perfectly - and if they're not, then it's an idea to try :thumbsup:

proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FVhYKfoJ.jpg&hash=f406509fe9d45f0f5f55b364a493f1b6


proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fmuc0yiY.jpg&hash=c8ff368e46d0447a6c986dc2013adaaa
 

robtion

Vampire Thrall
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Messages
943
#8
@Orlaster I agree with you. You have summed it up nicely. As I have mentioned elsewhere, I am not a fan at all of AoS and will not be participating. I have always used minis from many different companies though so this just gives me more of an excuse to do so.
 

Dragonet

Wight King
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
450
#9
Spot on guys, I am glad to have stumbled upon an island of sanity in the sea of wilful blindness.

I love the idea of giving Stormcast Eternals the Christopher Nolan treatment; I'd be looking to play up their superhuman and tragic nature by emphasising their oversized stature, otherworldliness and cold aloofness as already suggested. Definitely Lawful Neutral. Maybe taking cues from authority and establishment figures like judges, bishops etc throughout history? I'd definitely add some ermine or other fur to those capes to add interest and reality, maybe some more jewelery or badges of office? Also those death masks could maybe be more grotesque and representative of the former life of the soldier within?
 

Mad 'At

Dumb enough to work
Staff member
True Blood
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
2,362
#10
Just stumbled over these minis from Shieldwolf Miniatures:
proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shieldwolfminiatures.com%2Fimages%2Fdetailed%2F0%2FSiberias_Lions-only_Pack_by_Shieldwolf_Miniatures.jpg&hash=308341b0c08c27c7f35701c379c54952


Could maybe serve as a base for those human-faced lions.
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
913
#11
All of this rant is just an incessant whining, silly and laughable. Like a cry on the wind, howling in the desert. Useless, false and weak. Not that there is any truth to it, but only a tiny part - so tiny it can be ignored. But if you look for something that is not dull and generic fantasy the WHFB was, you have Malifaux at least :)
 

Borgnine

Moderator
Staff member
True Blood
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
1,900
#12
@Menkeroth If you want to share your thoughts, do so in a more recent thread or make a new one instead of threadomancing a two-year-old one. Possibly without being so rude about it ;)
 
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