• Roll-up! Roll-up! Come one and all the fantastic Turning the World to Darkness painting competition. Welcome to any skill level, you can find out more here.
  • It's time once again to ferret out those murderous vampires in a new VAU - Vampires Amongst Us. A cross between Cluedo and a roleplay, sometimes gory and often hilarious! Find out more here.

How to Beat the Big Fellas! part 2

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#1
This time: The Anvil of Doom- both the normal version, and Thorek Ironbrow's extra mature stilton version.

So for those who don't know, the Anvil of Doom is a Dwarvern warmachine that can do one of three things: a nasty shooting attack, an extra move to a dwarf unit or make dwarf units immune to psychology. It has two levels of power: the first can be used on a 2+, and will do one of the above. Typically the Dwarf player will use it to strike one unit, anywhere it likes (No LoS required!) and hit it with D6 S4 magical hits (2D6 with Thorek). Oh, and it halves the movement of the enemy units it strikes. If they decide to use an ancient power, then they need 4+ (Thorek needs 3+ and can re-roll if he fails!) and then it affects D3 units. Ouch. If the Runelord fails it then they roll on a standard miscast table (1: Destroyed, 2-3: can't fire this or next turn, 4-6: can't fire this turn).

Other notables are that, of course, it is unbreakable. It comes with a couple of guards- Thorek's not a bad fighter either.

So how to take it down? Remember, it will usually be bunkered down as it needs no line of sight, which makes it really annoying. Black Knights will probably not be able to make it to the machine by the end of the game- especially if they've been slowed down by the Anvil already. But combat is really the only option... which can make it nigh impossible to get through.

My solution is very tame, and just involves raising new units near it if there is space, and charging into the Anvil. Of course, you're not going to kill the Runelord or make him run away, but as long as they're fighting, they can't use their Anvil attacks. Usually Anvils are backed up by a gunline, and it'll be a while before any Dwarfs can make it over to protect the Anvil. Use the one turn (Or more if you're lucky and get to raise more skellies) to get your troops across the battlefield, it's really the only hope. That and having it blow itself up, of course...

Any other input? I'm looking at you, Dwarf players :D
 

DarkHand6

Grave Guard
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
244
#2
summoning powers wouldnt be too bad.
Spirits might work as well actually - the anvil guard cant hurt them so only the runelord is dangerous and they only have 2 attacks (i think)

A wolf Thrall with a unit to deliver him could work as he would have the killing power to beat up a runelord.


About Thorek it gets harder: he's pretty good already and theres Kraggi for the extra attack or so. for that i might go really desaperate and raise loads of zombies to scare him and take a BD on a WN/ZD for flying and killing blow.
Note: KB is a good friend, normally removes the runelord in one hit.


Oh and remember you only need to kill the runelord so if the vampire thrall goes in just nobble the runelord. If he then crumbles to the anvil guard afterwards it doesnt matter - they cant use the d***ed thing so just kill the runelord by any means neccsisary aqnd you're ok.
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
228
#3
Right i know this bad boy VERY well as the Dawi are my other big army.

First things first remember if they have an anvil they will have 7 dispell dice, that will stop alot of the magic we can do so it helps the dwarves control magic as well as general field control.

If you do manage to kill the Rune lord you only get the points for him not the anvil unless you kill the guards as well.

I personally dont mind the normal anvil as it does cost a lot to the dwarves for whait it does (350pts minimum) Then once you start adding runes its cost really adds up so the rest of the dwarf army is small. I think the harder army is an agressive attacking dwarf army with the anvil rather than the gun line style as it really allows the dwarves to have local advantage at nearly every combat getting flank charges and making the enemy attack in peicemeal style.

As stated already the best way to stop the anvil from working is to keep the runelord fighting, Summon ghouls, raised units, bats, wolves all can do that. Raised units are the best option as the runelord and guard only have 4 attacks between them so you can tie them up for a long time - just keep topping up the unit now and then. Most smart dwarf players will give the rune lord a RoPreservation so killing blow doesnt work but since he is normally hiden they dont bother with a runic weapon as he shouldnt use it.

I would say 9 time out of 10 the dwarf palyer will go normal power which means it can only effect 1 unit. If you have lots of targets this is the best way to mitigate this. Most dwarf players wont go ancient power unless they fell very lucky or their backs are against the wall


As to the Thorek issue all i can say is most players in the brewery think he is broken and that really says a lot when the players of the race he belongs in think that...

Anyway this should do for starters, if you have any other questions about the dwarves i think i can help you
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#4
Ah ye, great advice, thanks very much the pair of you!

Just out of interest, in your experience LF, do Thorek players usually also take other Runesmiths in the army so they can load up on spelleating runes?
 

FatOlaf

Varghulf
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
770
#5
With my personal experience the only hope you have against Thorek, is pray for a double one!
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
228
#6
EvC said:
Ah ye, great advice, thanks very much the pair of you!

Just out of interest, in your experience LF, do Thorek players usually also take other Runesmiths in the army so they can load up on spelleating runes?

Id say yes one with 2 RoSpellbreaking is the norm.

Id also like to point out in the brewery if someone posts a list with THorek we do normally try and stear them away from using him as we are embarassed by him :redface: Though if the personis designing the list for a game vs a mate/grudge match or (dare i say it) gt then we let it slip but still tell them it wont be fun
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#7
Ah thanks, that makes sense. Sorry for bombarding you with more questions (I really need to take a look at the book myself sometime!), here's a couple more...
1) Would magical movement by an affected unit be halved? E.g. if a unit is hit with the Wrath attack and moves at half speed, can we get a full 8" of movement with Vanhels Danse Macabre in the magic phase, or is that halved as well?
2) If a character wants to leave a unit which has been affected by the Wrath attack, would he be at half speed too or does it stop affecting him?
3) Just out of curiosity really, do you Brewery fellas play it that a Banshee can be shot by the Ancil (Her rules say she is treated like a character for shooting purposes, and the Anvil can't shoot lone characters...)?
 

The Dead of Night

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
1,084
#8
1) Would magical movement by an affected unit be halved? E.g. if a unit is hit with the Wrath attack and moves at half speed, can we get a full 8" of movement with Vanhels Danse Macabre in the magic phase, or is that halved as well?

The "Wrath and Ruin" effect is to either ground flyers, or if they can't fly, halve their movement characteristic until the end of their turn.

So in the case of a spell that lets you move again using your move characteristic, yes it is halved. However Danse Macabre is a flat 8" and has nothing to do with the movement characteristic, and as such, is not affected.

However, there is an exception to what I said above. The unit will also flee at half speed.


2) If a character wants to leave a unit which has been affected by the Wrath attack, would he be at half speed too or does it stop affecting him?


This is not specified in the anvil rules. I would say that the character is still affected. My reasoning is that spells that do not continue to affect the character, specify that fact, i.e. curse of years. However, you could just as easily argue that the character isn't part of the unit, and it is the unit that is affected.



3) Just out of curiosity really, do you Brewery fellas play it that a Banshee can be shot by the Ancil (Her rules say she is treated like a character for shooting purposes, and the Anvil can't shoot lone characters...)?


Funny you should ask that. LF and I had this very same discussion not long ago. We both agreed that you can not target a banshee with wrath and ruin.
 

The Dead of Night

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
1,084
#10
Lord Firmshaft said:
Oh well Dead of Night beat me to it with all the same answers i would have give - have a beer virgin on Daft ;)
lol I hope Daft doesn't see this ;)

I think I might have to join PIODT after all, it will help my experiments greatly :devil:
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#11
Cheers for the answers, I think I'd probably try my trick where I put a Vampire Lord in one unit which is invariably Anvilled and then move him out at full speed to another unit that has marched freely, and if any Anvil player queries it, I could argue either way and it may come down to a dice-off, which is fair enough. Glad to know that you guys accept VHD and the Banshee win out in the discussion, thanks for the answers!
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
228
#12
Well good luck and post a nice report if you do fight the Dawi as i like to see them in action from either side of the fence.

The issue with the banshee is real rules lawing and i cant be bothered with that (also in the undead army vs dwarves there are more worrying things in the army than the banshee with their ld and magic war machines ;))
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
228
#13
One thing i think i need to add as its very easy to overlook with the anvil. If a unit fled previously and rallied that turn it cant be anviled back into combat - using the movent oath on the anvil.

So baiting and counter chargeing with the same unit cant work
 

VladtheLad

Grave Guard
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
206
#14
Wasn't Thorek nerfed?

I think you can now use the reroll only once...

The funny thing is that they actually didn't errata it they just intrepreted the "a" as "one".
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#15
Yeah, Thorek has quasi-officially been re-balanced. Future print runs of the Dwarf book will have changed that part to "one" re-roll instead of simply "a". It's in the UKGT FAQ as well but GW haven't quite gotten around to putting it in the official FAQ...

Even with the rebalancing he's still very strong, but I wouldn't feel so bad about facing him now.
 
Top