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how to beat

Arion

Vampire Lord
True Blood
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Messages
3,414
#1
this is a how to beat thread.so post how you would beat the particular army in discussion as well as past experiences and lists against them.

first off the mini tanks the dwarves

so how would you beat dwarves?
 

The Dead of Night

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
1,084
#2
Okay well I'm predominantly a Dwarf player, so I'll do my best here. First thing's first, go to www.bugmansbrewery.com/forum and check out their School of Battle. They have a thread on VC, a thread on necromancy and a thread on death magic which will all be useful. If your opponent is a brewery member then he will be well versed in tactics, so good luck ;)

Dwarven elite units can all have banners up to 50 points in cost. It is a very common thing for units to take a rune of Stoicism (double unit strength) or a rune of courage (immune to fear and terror), indeed many people take them in their all comers lists, so you should assume they have them, especially if they know they face the undead.

These runes plus the ld 9 of Dwarves mean you can't rely on fear as much as you do against the weak elgi or grobi (but you knew that ;)).

the tried and tested method of simply using wights for damage and zombies to remove ranks is a great one. Zombies are weak and will never acomplish much alone, but Dwarves don't do much damage, so they wont be gaining much CR by killing the zombies. The denied ranks, flank bonus and outnumber will often see you achieve the all important auto break.

However with this in mind your opponent will be using his artillary to thin your units and his excellent anti magic to prevent buffing them back up. The banner of doom is usually considered expensive for what you get, but against dwarves your GG will really like it.

Bolt throwers, grudge throwers and cannons can all have runes on them, any rune no matter what the primary effect, will make the WMs shots magical, so don't assume your ethereals are safe.

The shooting of the Dwarves will really ruin your day if you let it. You MUST get into combat quickly. As soon as your DW leave cover the organ gun will eat them. use Danse Macabre, book of arkhan, cover, banner of doom, anything you can to protect your primary, non fodder units. If you are going to attack his WM then do so with a lot of units at once so he can't shoot them all, or danse them into combat. Summoning bloodlines can be good here, but you have to be careful.

If a unit of hammerers has a lord in it, then it is immune to fear and terror.

Banshies are somewhat useless. with the Dwarven ld 9, banshies must roll an 8+ to score any kills at all, and with WS 3 + S3 they are going to have trouble wounding anything with CC.

All that's left to say is that Dwarves are rock hard, don't ever feel like it might be a good idea to fight them one on one. There are many runic combinations that will ruin a vamps day, and the basic warrior is more than a match for any non wight unit. Be selective.


P.S. There is a thread here that deals with teh anvil of doom. check it out if you are likely to face one.
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
228
#3
You cant beat the dwarves - the Dawi will rule the world again!!!!!

Oh, sorry about that i thought i was in a different place ;).

First thing's first, go to tp://www.bugmansbrewery.com/forum and check out their School of Battle. They have a thread on VC, a thread on necromancy and a thread on death magic which will all be useful. If your opponent is a brewery member then he will be well versed in tactics
Well they had better be for all the time and effort we put into it :D

As Dead of Night has pointed you to the School of Battle already (giving away our secrets) i shall carry on

Since the dwarves are tough, well armoured and good ld you need to fight a smart battle. Simply running over and shouting BOO wont work. You need to rob off the dwarves one thing they really need static cr. A nice flank attack is a swing in combat of 3-4 pts before a zombie has thought about saying "Brainsssssss". Raised new unit, 3 dire wolves, spirit hosts to name but a few.

If fcing a gun heavy dwarf line give them more targets than they can deal with. You know your troops wont panic so they cant spread their fire as it wont really give any effect. I played one once with 4 runes bolt throwers, 30 thunderers and in the first turn the unit with my lord in was reduced to a single skeleton - in my turn i gave him 2 units of ghouls, 4 packs of dire wolves, a flock of bats, a unit of ghouls in the rear and a unit of spirit hosts, next turn he couldnt do enough and my turn 2 i swamped his missile troops (even if i just tied them up so not firing) and my main combat units mopped up untouched. Even if you dont have much fodder summon stuff right in front og his guns so he cant ignore it (yes they are good at stopping magic but if they have one rune smith its the same as a normal army having 2 lv2 mages).

Unless you have no other options avoid the elite stuff as they have the banners and power to crumble your units fast - pick on the warriors, missile troops and auxillary stuff them if you need to hit the eite stuff from all sides to take it out. You will know what unit has the oath stone as it has to be said before the game (clue the character has to be set in the unit at the same time ;))

Anyway that should get others going
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#4
Oh, that's good, sneaky advice. I especially like the idea of raising stuff in front of the guns- and even better, if it's a guess weapon (Cannon, Grudge Thrower etc.) remember those have to fire at the start of the turn, so they won't have a chance to blow them away with weaker weapons first and then use their big guns on your proper units.

Although an even sneakier Dwarf player would just overguess with his guess weapons and shoot your models anyways...
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
770
#6
Banshees and or hosts to draw out the fanatics early, danse or book them far up the field early doors, to create maximum carnage. Fear then is your best friend, their goblin units will probably outnumber your zombie units but again take out ranks with wolves, BK etc and let the fear do it's work. A Balck coach can come in to it's own here, Terror can win you the day, only thing to fear is the Orc stone thrower for S7 attacks but it's so unlikely to hit you.
Really dont have too much to worry about facing these guys ot lat least what I have faced so far. Anyone else had problems against O&G and what you did to overcome them?
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
228
#7
Well normally you need to worry about losing the rank bonus on your zombies and the likes but with the low ld of the flanking troops that unless the general is nearby they may well fail their fear test and not charge at the key times

I agree spirit hosts or even a small pack of dire wolves to draw out the fanatics

Spirit hosts are great at stopping chariots

Get your vampire to go after the orc general but make sure you charge them - their armour is poor but they do hit hard if they are still standing
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#8
FatOlaf said:
Really dont have too much to worry about facing these guys ot lat least what I have faced so far. Anyone else had problems against O&G and what you did to overcome them?
I too have never had a problem against the greenskins, massacred them every single time I played them (Except when I played Skarsnik in a dodgy but fun scenario, and was kinda lax with the rules, leading to my Count being put down a Giant's trousers!). There is simply no reason to worry about Orcs and Goblins, just go, play, enjoy and try to magmanimous in victory ;)
 

The Dead of Night

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
1,084
#9
shouldn't you start a seperate thread for each faction? Once this single thread is complete it will be a pain to scroll though it to see what you're looking for.
 

N.I.B

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
2,370
#10
At the Blood Keep we have army specific tactics threads. Perhaps that would be of interest?
 

Danceman

The Devil in Pale Moonlight
True Blood
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
3,461
#11
N.I.B. said:
At the Blood Keep we have army specific tactics threads. Perhaps that would be of interest?
Aye, we used to have over at the old carpe noctem site. Suppose it wasnt possible to move all that stuff over here... a shame, it was quite abit of good info there.

Having a single thread and say "No more discussion about X army" wont pan out well, I know that from personal experience and also the reason we decided to create the "how to beat"-sub forum. It simply ends up as an incomplete and messy thread and wont help anyone.

Perhaps its a good idea to create these sub-forums right away, wouldnt you say?

Cheers
 
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