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How to best the beastmen?

Abhorash.

Grave Guard
Joined
Apr 28, 2009
Messages
282
#1
Ive NEVER fought them before, please share your tactical knowledge. any advice in general will work. Thanks.
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#2
They have the potential to hit like a tonne of bricks, and just keep hitting more and more, especially with minotaurs. Take advantage of the frenzy that Minotaur characters give their units, and their poor overru nof D6" to get flank charges and destroy them!
 

Ophidicus

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
1,039
#3
I did over my mate's beastmen (with his own Khornate Warriors army) the other week, obviously WoC play very differently to Undead but the principle needs are the same.

1. Don't get flanked. The beastmen are almost certain to try to surround you, if you lose your static Combat Res you lose one of your biggest advantages, the fact that he can flee & you can't. The most dangerous things to be flanked by are the large monsters, more of which later.

2. Limit his Leadership. Beastmen have generally low Ld, and so can be very susceptible to Fear, Terror & Panic. Use this to your advantage by diverting his General away from the core of his army, using Dark Majesty, Screaming Banner & other such screwers of low Ld. Terror is highly effective at keeping things away, so make the most of it.

3. Don't fight Elites with Elites. One of the basic rules of combat. Throw expendable troops at his Minotaurs & Bestigors to keep them occupied while you destroy his non-resurrectable Gor units with Grave Guard & Ghouls. Remember to capture standards for bonus VPs.

4. Divert the Large Monsters with raised Zombies to get them to expose their flanks, but don't throw away troops needlessly, you can often be better off just keeping them away from your army than going all-out to kill them.
 

Abhorash.

Grave Guard
Joined
Apr 28, 2009
Messages
282
#4
so maybe there is finally a decent use for the Rod of Flaming Death? also do you think i should tool my characters more combat or magic oriented? im thinking magic heavy but idk...
 

Ophidicus

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
1,039
#5
You could play it either way really, VH vs Wargor is a fairly even match so be careful, you get a significant advantage from killing them though as regiments don't get to use the hero's Ld for Primal Fury but you may prefer not to take the gamble, it may be more advantageous to raise ablative zombies & support with magic. Beast magic isn't terribly strong so don't expect too much magic defence, he's more likely to concentrate on tooling characters for combat.
 

Abhorash.

Grave Guard
Joined
Apr 28, 2009
Messages
282
#6
so maybe a Caster lord (with RoFD), couple raising/vanhelsing vamps, and a Wight King with some Black Guard w/ screaming banner? Im also thinking about using 2 units of 5 wraiths with a banshee to ensure some banshee scream kills, and im pretty sure he has almost nothing to deal with Ethereal dudes. Sound good?

Thanks by the way for replying so fast, and with good advice.
 

Ophidicus

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
1,039
#7
You could try a VH with Rod of Flaming Death* & possibly Dark Acolyte & Lore of Death for extra Magic Missile killyness, but it's up to you how you want to play it. This frees up extra points for Magic Items (Skull Staff for example) too. I like the idea of the Wight King too, remember he doesn't have to go with Gravy Guard, they can handle themselves so you might like to put him in a SKeleton unit to boost its killing power. It's also a match-up where I'd recommend the Black Axe, a good choice against Minotaurs.

*I originally suggested Lycni but they're both Enchanted Items, so no go there.

Ethereal troops can be a bit of a gamble, I believe the Cygor can harm Ethereal troops (can't confirm right now though cos all my books are packed away), but against other large monsters such as the Ghorgon they would be ideal.

I've never actually tried the Screaming Banner myself, but I think it would be a very good choice against BoC, especially on a big unit, as it would proide a layer of protection for the flanks as well as frontage.

As a suggested kit-out for your characters (not analysed in detail, doubtless others will suggest better attuned builds):

Vampire Lord - +1 Magic
Dark Acolyte, Aura of Dark Majesty, Lord of the Dead
Skull Staff, Flayed Hauberk

Vampire Hero 1
Dark Acolyte, Avatar of Death (Shield)
Rod of Flaming Death

VH 2
Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead
Black Periapt, Power Stone, Enchanted Shield

Wight King
Black Axe of Krell

This will obviously need to be tailored to the rest of your army composition... you might even want to try a VH with Spectral Form to lead an assault wraith unit.
 

Burnanation

Crypt Horror
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
573
#8
I started playing Warhammer with a beastmen army. Fear and terror are the worst things for the beasts, a little less scary now the Beast Lord is LD 9. As a beast general, I would dance around the battle field until I could charge you with at least one in the front and one in a flank. Things have changed a little bit with the removal of the raiders rule.

Expect the Cygor. He's the giant that throws rocks at you. Basically he's a stone thrower that you don't want to get into hand to hand combat or have your casters within 24 inches. He has MR 2 so you can't magic him to death. If your casters are within 24 inches they have to take a LD test, pass no biggie. Fail and anything you fail to cast becomes a miscast...

Minos are going to make you a sad panda. They get plus one attack for each round of combat they win. So although it's nice to redirect with zombies they'll start racking up crazy numbers of attacks. Wraiths would be ideal for going toe to toe with them.

I would also expect to see chariots running in pairs, they are super cheap for what they do. Two chariots pulling up to charge your flank and run down the board costs less than 200 pts, oh and they are core.

Pumbagor chariots are bigger and meaner chariots.

Bats to march block.

Lastly, he may or may not ambush. Most beast generals I know, myself included, take at least one or two units in ambush. Usually they don't do much... in terms of combat. Where they truly excel is making the enemy become overly worried about them. "Oh no I could have a unit of 15 gors running and charging me from the rear, I should prepare for that." Yep, you might, but they will be by themselves, and they'll have to make a fear test. Don't overly worry about them.

Don't charge anything that you don't want to. If you can raise some spirit hosts they'll help a lot.

Let us know how it goes! Good Luck!
 

Fodderboy

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
2,243
#9
Ophidicus said:
Ethereal troops can be a bit of a gamble, I believe the Cygor can harm Ethereal troops (can't confirm right now though cos all my books are packed away), but against other large monsters such as the Ghorgon they would be ideal.
The Cygor gets to re-roll to hit vs undead. The beasties book does not say it gets magical attacks.

In addition, Undead are immune to the Jabberslythe Aura of Carnage.

Only characters and spells (and CR) will take down Spirit Hosts.
 
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
Messages
124
#10
Fought beastmen at a tourney a few weeks ago. If approached propperly the game should be quite easy.

Most things cannot harm wraiths and have low leadership so thats a good start, screaming, terror and much killiness!

Apart from that its a case of picking your fights, use wolves to force minotaur charges, the 1d6 overrun means you know where they will be even more than other units so can set up the flank charge. Again use wolves to split up the chariot charges as 2-3 of them into a unit can sting. otherwise just chew them up, very little armour anywhere so quite simple with ghouls.

Was a big win at the tourney btw
 
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