• Roll-up! Roll-up! Come one and all the fantastic Turning the World to Darkness painting competition. Welcome to any skill level, you can find out more here.
  • It's time once again to ferret out those murderous vampires in a new VAU - Vampires Amongst Us. A cross between Cluedo and a roleplay, sometimes gory and often hilarious! Find out more here.

How to lose...

Jan 31, 2012
Hi, my first message on the forums.

Played my first game with the new book today, just a smal 1500 game vs. a Ulric themed Empire army. I took a small castle army with both krell and kemmler. It didnt go so well for me, so in stead of giving out sound advice, i thought i can make a list of things not to do:)

Army list:

36 skelies
14 grave guard
Full command
Corpse cart
reroll 1d6 on IoN upgrade
mortis engine
Blasfemous tome

Dont leave home without good luck, got first turn, and started a solid magic face, with 6 vs 3 magic dice, cast raise the dead spell, in front of his knights, forcing them to give me their flank as they would charge, cast IoN with another two power dice, easy peasy, rhe didnt even try to dispel with his level 1 wizard, got a total of 16 new skellies in the two units. This was going good, it was either magic missile or vortex, i said screw it, vortex it is and rolled my dice with all my energy, rolled a double 6. Crap:( killed some 9 teutogen guard but rolled a 1 and 3 on my mist cast (mortis engine), followed by a 1 on to see if he goes bye bye, so there goes my only wizard. (Anyhow, we applied the efect of the mistcast, lost some 9 grave guard, then the crumble, total 12 skellies and the corpse cart whent bye bye. But resurected Kemmler and kept on playing)

Obvious, dont take over 500 points of characters in a 1500 point game, but i had the new krell model and just wanted to try him on the table.

Dont charge with your skellie anvils if you can avoid it, they will have to survive two rounds of combat, before IoN. I ran two units of 36 skellies.

Be patiente, very patient, eventhough i had already lost the game, as we continued, i was controling the magic fase, he knights ran because of terror, and i had a unit of 10 raised zombies in front of his cannon, who flopped its graple shot. Then i decided to charge with everyting, mortis + 40 skellies agains a free company = good idea. Then i charged my small grave guard unit + 40 odd skellies into his 25 strong teutogen guard (great swords) but mised judged and clipped his sneakly placed horde of 30 fladgelants. Lost this combined combat by about 20 and kemmler crumbled again..

Dont forget you killing blow on your grave guard.

To sum up, i made some tempramental mistakes, by feeling i had control of the game turn two. i should have hung back and have taken advantage of my incredible magic superiority to drain up his units, and dont give you oponent free combat res by double charging units.

The new magic feels incredible, specially on a level 4 lore master supported by the mortis. Theres a Small chance of mist cast, on two dice, but is minimum, however it happened to me trun one. I also learnt to take advantage of the fact that we shoukd always have a back up wizard with the lore of vampires.

Thanks for you time reading. If you guys can give me some positive feedback i would love to read it, if you feel like pointing out the obvious feel free, rightnow though i feel, i need to keep my structure, but go to 2000, where i can have a 30 horde grave guard, bats, and vampire or necromancer as back up. Some zombies or dogies on the flanks and thats the army im looking for....
Jan 25, 2012
It's standard to tilt a bit after a face-palm misscast turn one. :) But as you said yourself - don't give up right away..

How to use our Core in this edition is something I'm working on. I often find myself in a situation where I don't want to charge with my core, but I can't wait either. Sometimes it feel's like I would be better off without them... :)

As for the list, I would consider dropping a char (as you said), the cart or the engine for one more unit of hurt; something that actually wins combats. Core, even with char-support, just dies all the time. They die and die and die again. Maybe trade Krell and the cart for a sexy unit of horrors!
May 19, 2011
I know your pain. Had my first game with a larger Kemmler/Krell list at the weekend, by turn 3 i'd had two miss casts and both times managed to get a 4 on the table - the guy didnt even need to use his infernal puppet. What I will say is even at a 2000 point limit it still feels a squeeze to fit the key items (Lare GG unit, Mortis engine and the two characters). At this size of game I'd actually consider leaving withought the Mortis engine , buffing up the GG unit and throwing some more smaller toys into the mix.
Jan 18, 2012
how did you ressurect kemmler? This has also happened to me in a 2500 point game with mannfred vs lizardmen. He is sucked into the realm of chaos on his first spell on the first turn... I roll really high on most leadership tests so i loose almost an extra 1000 points on turn one(terrorgheist crumbles, W1 on the ME that rolls a double and dies next turn, a lot of zombies, a lot of skellies, black knights, ect...), and then my secondary caster dies from a ballista shot in the face before he can replace my general... oh well i gave up on turn 3 with 1 unit of 46 zombies, a corpse cart with W2 and 3 GG :slapface: Oh well it happens when you play with dice...:grave:


Black Knight
Jul 6, 2010
It sounds like his friend let Kemmler live after applying the Miscast result so they could continue playing.

Yeah, the only issue I see with the list is that there are no damage-dealing units. Even the Grave Guard really want to be at least 20 strong so they can make it to the Magic Phase.

The Skeletons will be fine against other rank and file, but against any other hard-hitting units, I can see there being problems.

If you want to go the attrition route as opposed to the hammering, I'd invest in some tarpit units such as some Zombies that you can raise and overwhelm enemy units. Just be careful when playing someone with the Lore of Life. I love having my Skeletons/Zombies slowly drag down Knights, Saurus, and other expensive, elite units, but if they start getting up too, you'll never kill them fast enough.
Jan 31, 2012
Wow, thanks guys, here im used to other forums, and thought i would take a bunch of flack...but no. Taking advantage of having your atention, thought id make you elaborate a bit on your opinions.

From your advice, i would (temporarily) drop krell, he does much less for my army...so thats some points.

Should i leave either mortis or corpse cart at home? They where actually my first two picks, then i build my army around them.

Another unit of hurt, what could you recomend? Depending if i leave the mortis or corpse cart at home, which would be a good punchy unit?

The more the merrier, but how many grave guard, 20, 30.... i usualy do ranks of 6, is this a good idea?

I really like the combined use of kremmler and the mortis to raise zombis combined with IoN to raise skellies above start. Add some very agresive positioning to force them to act, maybe give me a flank and have them charge me, then on the third turn i charge in? I will need to practice, but is it a tactic you would use?

Thanks once again for the feedback!

Pd.Yeah he let me resurect kemmler to keep playing, we had spent weeks speaking about the game, nearly an hour to set it up, just to have me blow my brains out first turn? Nah warhamer is a game for gentlemen, and gentlemen just want to have fun....besides, i almost pissed my self laughing when kemmler died, and my mate where rolling on the floor....man do i love this game....
Jul 26, 2011
Poor Kemmler, but it's great that you had a sporting opponent :thumbsup: Man, I remember one of the first games I played starting 40k with my friend. I had 10 Dire avengers, 5 rangers, and an HQ for Eldar. turn one my friend playing Space marine drops his orbital bombardment (Str 10 Ap1 large blast template) and kills just about everything. My face --> :zombie: Needles to say it was kind of a douche move, but the funny thing was that My HQ was Yriel (A total beast for those who don't know) and he single-handedly killed my friends entire army.

Moral of the story, be careful who you play your games with :tongue:

Anyway, it's good to see that you learned from a few easy mistakes. My only advice is get something that actually has the ability to damage your opponents. More GG if that's what you wanna run. A Mortis engine isn't really necessary in 1500 points, as you will probably outcast your opponent anyway.

Good luck with future games, and welcome to the forums!
Apr 7, 2010
Could be worse - I once played a game in 5th whereby my opponent (Empire) went first, shot his cannon at my General and killed him. That was the end of the game and I didn't even get to roll a single dice or move one model!
Jan 2, 2010
I personaly advise against using 5-6 PD to cast anything with a general, with anyone else go for it. In the future I'd combine the skellies and take screaming banner with them.


Wight King
Sep 17, 2010
I played a Storm of Magic game yesterday where my Opponent miscast and turned all the Wizards on the table into Frogs. He did make up for it later by doing three consecutive Magical Feedback miscasts and killing his own Vilitch the Curseling. Interestingly we both managed to lose that game, not a draw a double loss as the scenery took the win.

One of our friends here plays Tomb Kings and has Dimensional Cascaded his Hierophant in 3 out of 4 games.