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How to use spirit hosts ?

Agifem

Skeleton
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
66
#1
How are spirit hosts used ? I understand they are supposed to tarpit a unit, but i fail to see how.

From what i understand it, if i flank an infantry unit with 3 spirit hosts (for example), considering i make no wounds, i get +1 flank, the enemy gets +1 US and +1 banner, and he wins the combat. He then reforms (or whatever the name is), facing me, and getting his full rank bonus on the next combat phase, meaning my spirits will crumble very quickly afterwards.

Am i missing something, rule-wise or tactic-wise ? This unit seems very interesting (and very beautiful to model and paint), and i'd like to include some in my army list.
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
228
#2
Wellit sounds like you are aiming them at teh wrong targets. Spirit hosts can be used in many ways:

1 - protecting your flanks fast cav and skirmishers cant do much vs them
2 - bait - 3 bases is still 12 wounds so it will take a bit of damage and you can recover wounds on it with raise dead
3 - target single large monsters, monster units or chariots
4 - timing, going in on their own vs a ranked unit as you showed in your example is a bad move however do it with a unit of zombies to the front and its a different matter...
 

DarkHand6

Grave Guard
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
244
#3
LF summed it up really - although in your example you really should get a wound or two against most troops.

But yeah, chriots, fast cavlry, flyers - SH can tie up anything without a rank bonus almost indefinately
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#4
12 attacks in a typical unit's flank should do enough damage to kill one or two a turn and should win combat...
 

Agifem

Skeleton
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
66
#5
Thanks, i understand much better now. Avoid ranked units and magical attacks, and they'll be fine.
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
770
#6
Agifem said:
Thanks, i understand much better now. Avoid ranked units and magical attacks, and they'll be fine.

No as Evc said, ranked units are great targets, you will on average only need to kill one model to at least draw the combat, so long as you go for flanks and rear charges then take on the biggest R&F unit you can find, and watch you grind them down.
Remember even you roll crap dice and lose some wounds on CR, you can still heal the unit back up to full strength again, I have tar pitted good units all game with this tactic.
Always take them, they are so good it's untrue, just beware the magical flyer ie furies as they will rip them to shreds!
 

Skaramak von Carstein

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
1,636
#7
And woodland host armies are a nightmare as they are all ItP and have magic attacks. I lost 19 wounds to 5 treekin in a single round (and I charged him) without taking a single wound off him :( (I needed 4 to hit, 6 to wound, then AS4+ and WS5+). He got 9 wounds (only fractionally above average), and 10 more from CR!!
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
288
#8
FatOlaf said:
Remember even you roll crap dice and lose some wounds on CR, you can still heal the unit back up to full strength again, I have tar pitted good units all game with this tactic.
Can you heal the unit to full strength even though one whole base of hosts has been killed? Or can you only restore wounds to individual bases?
 

Skaramak von Carstein

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
1,636
#9
Only individual bases, so I could have cured the remaining base up to 4 wounds, but that would have been as much as I could do, and under the circumstances I felt that the casting dice would be better utilised elsewhere.
 

Agifem

Skeleton
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
66
#10
FatOlaf said:
Remember even you roll crap dice and lose some wounds on CR, you can still heal the unit back up to full strength again, I have tar pitted good units all game with this tactic.
The problem i see is, if i lose the round of combat, the enemy can turn and face me. Against ranked units, it means very fast crumble in the following turns of combat.
I see how turning the enemy unit can be beneficial, but it seems quite tactical to me.
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#11
If the enemy turns and faces you, this isn't always so bad, as the unit has to be pretty massive for it to have a rank bonus after turning. You'll lose a flank attack bonus, and if you lose combat again then they'll regain their rank bonus, but by then hopefully you'd have something else ready to hit them in the side...
 
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
660
#12
I think th at Spirit hosts are best used in conjuction with another undead unit such as zombies which is like what most udnead units are good at...fighting together....also with necromancers help they can regain wounds..
 

N.I.B

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
2,370
#13
EvC said:
If the enemy turns and faces you, this isn't always so bad, as the unit has to be pretty massive for it to have a rank bonus after turning. You'll lose a flank attack bonus, and if you lose combat again then they'll regain their rank bonus, but by then hopefully you'd have something else ready to hit them in the side...
I think you've got it wrong. When the enemy unit turns, it regains it's rank bonus in the same instant.
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#14
"the unit has to be pretty massive for it to have a rank bonus after turning." If a unit is arranged as such:

EEEEE
EEEEE
EEEEE
EEEEE

and turns to face an enemy hitting its flank, what will its rank bonus be? Thanks.
 

N.I.B

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
2,370
#15
Pretty massive to me, is at least 5x5. Then again, mind reading on internet isn't one of my strong sides.
 

Skaramak von Carstein

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
1,636
#16
EvC said:
"the unit has to be pretty massive for it to have a rank bonus after turning." If a unit is arranged as such:

EEEEE
EEEEE
EEEEE
EEEEE

and turns to face an enemy hitting its flank, what will its rank bonus be? Thanks.
+3, the maximum possible, from zero the turn they were charged. Therefore the change in CR is +4 merely by turning.
 

N.I.B

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
2,370
#17
Skaramak, the unit in EvC's thoughts (the one in the pic) is only 4 deep, therefore it would have no rank bonus in the same round it turned.
 

Skaramak von Carstein

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
1,636
#18
On the round it turned, that is correct.

However, as it turns after the resolution of combat, the first fight (being the next time that CR, and hence rank bonus, is calculated) will be in the next players turn, when my figures would apply.
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#19
Not for a unit that is only four models wide, unless you're still playing sixth edition...
 

Skaramak von Carstein

Vampire Count
True Blood
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Aug 13, 2007
Messages
1,636
#20
I see what you mean, EVC. We have (incorrectly) turned the unit, not the individual members, which would have resulted in it retaining a 5 man frontage, rather than the 4 which is the correct way of doing it. Thanks for that.
 

Skaramak von Carstein

Vampire Count
True Blood
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1,636
#22
ArchMagosAlchemys said:
There is a diagram on page 13 of the BRB showing how a unit turns and pagr 46 describes under what circumstances a unit may turn.
Thanks, ArchMagosAlchemys. It was on checking this that I realised that we had misinterpreted things here.
 

Voltaire

Master Necromancer
True Blood
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Aug 15, 2007
Messages
2,763
#23
This is meant for tactics with spirit hosts, not rules queries with the turning of units. Can we get back on topic please or the Lockhammer is going to be coming out.
 

N.I.B

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
2,370
#24
I recall someone at the Blood Keep (rocdota?) using them 1x5 with the adding ranks trick to manouver them further than otherwise possible, while turning at the same time.
 
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