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I'm going to complain about Space Marines now.

Corien Sumatris

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Jul 3, 2013
Messages
1,536
#1
Ok, I'm going to start this off by saying that I really do love Games Workshop. Their Plastic, Pewter, and now Resin runs through my vains and burns with passion when there are new releases! But I need to complain about thier buisness plan and how it's starting to fall through.

Vanguard veterans are $40.00 now.... Really? Every other 5 man assault squad/command squad that has been released has been $33.00. So why is there a $7.00 increase on these specific models? Also, they do not coming with all of the components to make every variant (If they did then it may be worth it, thats a lot of bits).

Sternguard veterans: Here is where my biggest fit lies. So my rant on the Vanguard Veterans applies to these also, except raise their price by $10.00. So GW now cannot lay behind the statement "It was a new sculpt" or "It's priced accordingly to other models in the release". Why are Sternguard $50.00 and Vanguard $40.00? They are both brand new sculpts each containing 2 sprues. Same amount of plastic, same release date, same amount of effort to create. So why GW? Why?

Last but not least is the Centurions. Bad sculpts. theres not much more to say about it.

Thank you everyone,
Now as you were.
 

Mr. West

Lahmian Tomb Guard
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
243
#3
Agree with you Corien.
Space Marines are probably the single model line in 40k which just DIDN'T need an update at all.
The current line was still entirely sufficient, their codex completly playable, and then you also have a metric ton of Forgeworld goodies for Space Marines, most notable all the Heresy era stuff.
The new Tac Squad ... unecessary.
Some new characters ? ... okay, nice. But let's face it, most people convert their own.
New AA tank ? ... yay, how inovative (also, see above notion on FW stuff)

What, wait ... there was another kit released ?
Oh, the Centurions .... riiiiiiight.
I've been playing 40k since .... 1989 now. Okay, I took a twelve year break in between, granted. But never ever have I seen such a crude violation of the fluff in plain sight (excluding the debacle that was the Grey Knights codex).
From my limited understanding, it always used to be the Tactical Dreadnought Armour (also known as Terminatour Armour) that filled the gap between conventional Mk.I-Mk.VII Power Armour and an actual Dreadnought Sarcophagus ... *scratches head* ... now, where in the hell (of lost STCs) do those Centurions come from ?
Also, the models are butt-ugly, utterly unproportional in relation to the Power Armour that's supposed to be worn underneath that ridiculous shell, and have simply been released because GW just loves their big model kits nowadays.
The funny part is, I don't even play Space Marines, besides a medium-sized Horus Heresy contingent that is. But every single run-of-the-mill Marine player I've spoken to hates these suits with a passion. :lol:
 

Corien Sumatris

Vampire Count
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#4
Thank you!! Ugh! SM's are such GW's love child that they just don't see what they're doing!! I mean the off branch codex's I was totally cool with (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and Black Templars) but Like you said, there is nothing wrong with the current codex. Oh well, What's a guy to do.

Also Centurions, Let me get this straight, Scout Armor has been around for forever, Standard suits have tons of variants but have been around for forever, Terminator armor, Dreadnaughts. So GW decided to introduce a new armor, Which I am totally okay with. As society advances then the SM's are allowed to get new products. The mechanicum still works. But their idea was to make a larger, clumsy-er, slower, less usable terminator? IMO if I was a space marine I would either want upgraded scout armor or a sleaker, slimmer, quicker armor that would hinder fighting capabilities less, or make infiltrating and scouting easier. but that's just me.
 

Ravenheart

Grave Guard
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
221
#5
With the loss of STC data, the marines decided to create the tactical Zimmerframe with complementary grav cannon. The models look terrible, I'm so glad I use an army that requires thought to use. On the plus side, they're slow so, my dark eldar can catch them quicker :)
 

Corien Sumatris

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#6
Heck yes!! I am a Dark Eldar player also and man, I must say, GW really went down hill with the Centurion sculpts compared to anything Dark Eldar. I mean the only and I mean ONLY bad sculpt in that range was the Grotesque, and even that model is fantastic compared to these things. But, knowing GW, their rules will be stupid good and we will have to see them on the table everywhere we look. :(
 

Corien Sumatris

Vampire Count
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1,536
#8
Oh yeah!! If people are willing to pay it then that's what they will charge. But GW didn't start out as a money hungry corperation. They are turning into the mentality of Big Business. There is no "For the Customer" ideas in there head anymore, which at some point they're going to start losing money by raising prices if they haven't already. They want to draw customers in? Then don't make them spend $150.00 just to start! (I'm including paint and supplies in the general starting price).

I know that GW needs to make money. They're a buisness. But Tactical squad prices have litterally doubled in the past 8 years. They are also writting rules now that benefit large point armies (Not apocolypse alone) that draw people to buy more toys and bigger toys. Tournament sizes are growing, 40k use to be 1850 and now you don't see tournaments less than 2k, fantasy use to be 2250 and now they're 2400. It's a small just but fill that extra 150 points with zombies or cultists or guardsmen and now you're looking at .... like 100.00 bucks just to compete.
 

Ravenheart

Grave Guard
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
221
#9
I made my own grots using crypt horrors and skaven bits. Considering my coven runs 12 of them, that's good value compared to the £240+ I'd have needed to spend.
 

Ravenheart

Grave Guard
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
221
#11
I found the faces of the CH work nicely painted as masks. How do you equip Grots? I tend to use mine as an extra 12 T5 5+ FNP wounds for haemonculi with liquifier guns. Put the in a Raider and watch marine players sh*t themselves when you roll for the AP. Makes me smile :)

I'd offer apologies about turning this into a 'marines suck, dark eldar rock' thread but, Archons apologise to no-one. Any way, children use marines/WoC/any army that involves point and click tactics, except Brets, knights are awesome.

That reminds me, must work out how big a list I'd need to fit 40 black knights and 20 blood knights.......
 

Corien Sumatris

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#12
For 20 bloodknights you're looking at like a 5,000pt list lol.

No apology is necessary! Dark Elves do rock! Their new core came out at under $30 for 10. Their transports cost less that the 10 year old rhinos. and their model range is gorgeous! Love em.

I actually run no units of Grots, Humonculi, or Wracks. My list is pretty much a talos, a cronos, a Voidraven, 3 Raiders with warriors, 2 Venoms with Trueborns, and maybe some scourges depending on point size. The duke as my only character. That list can pump 150-ish poisoned shots out each turn, not counting the high strength stuff. I use the 2 biguns for tying up units that I don't want to deal with at the time. T7 3+, Yeah they'll do fine. then by the time that they die then the enemy has a total of 2 units left on the table.

I also would like to mention that I have a friend who plays tyranids. Dark eldar love tyranids.
 

Ravenheart

Grave Guard
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
221
#13
But hate leafblower guard lists. My last three games of 40k have been against; Leafblower IG, SW with Grimnar, 15 wolf guard (including 3 cyclone terminators), 3 packs of long fangs, Leafblower guard. Needless to say, all three were hammer & anvil deployment on jungle boards (lots of cover but nothing big enough to help a raider and nowhere to hide) and I got destroyed, as in by the time I conceded (turn 2 in all three games) I had nothing left. I had a look at all of the lists run down at my club, and everyone runs a similar style list. Funny how I no longer play 40k. In a game where the best armour and best gun wins and, in a meta where helldrakes are considered to be fluffy, I think that's understandable.
 

Count Darvaleth

I <3 marmite
True Blood
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Apr 26, 2010
Messages
3,534
#14
GW's sculpts are amazing. The reason they are the dominant miniature company is because nobody else ('cept Forge World o' course) can produce models with the same level of detail, the same innovative posing and the same potential for converting and customising. New companies launch kickstarters etc., people back them and think it will be the next big thing, then their low-detail, single-pose, flat-as-a-pancake-for-the-mould metal minis arrive, and they go and order some Space Marines. GW produces these amazing kits on a ridiculous scale every single month.

I'm not saying I'm a fanboy, but in my mind nothing else comes close. GW knows this, which is why it prices the way it does, but if it didn't then we wouldn't have the same quality. You're not just paying for the model, you're paying to support the entire company, remember, and their future releases. Once a kit is sculpted, most of the cost is already out of the way; somewhat similar to video games, each box isn't nearly as costly to make compared with the original. The new Vanguard and Sternguard kits are, in my mind, excellent examples of GW's excellent models.

Having said all that, having sang GW's praises, (under-18s look away!) those Centurions are shit.
 
Joined
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Messages
495
#15
TBH, I love the sternguard models, don't like the prices, but there are so many bits in the box that I'll get over it. The centurions, while the fluff I really like, because I like the idea how some chapters don't have enough terminators, they have to patch up psuedo termis. Don't like the models very much though.
 

Count michael

The Undead Sparky
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
784
#16
Sometimes you wonder what GW is smoking, They can release truly amazing models that look great..... then they give us the complete opposite :slapface: seriously why did Space marines need loyalist versions of Obliterators and Mutilators.
I may be ranting but I just wished they gave CSM some of the attention they are giving normal SMs with the rules Chaos is just a shameful mockery compared to the loyalist, Black legion supplement kinda helps a little bit but an extra $90 just for stuff that should of been in the chaos dex in the first place is stupid. No one give me that "oh you have a helldrake" I hate the model, hate flyers so will never have one (I prefer infantry and tanks).
 

Corien Sumatris

Vampire Count
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#17
Defilers? Maulerfeinds? Forge Feinds? I feel like I'm missing something, Like a deamon .... Maybe one of royalty? Like a prince of some kind? lol, Don't mean to sound dicky at all It's just that I play CSM, they're my love child and I have about 25,000pts right now and my final army list is 88,888 points when all said and done. I love that army! I feel like chaos can do things that SM's can't. They can do combat really good, They can do shooting really good, they can play the attrition game all day. SM's may be a very rounded army but they have troubles doing one thing like a boss! Maybe the new book is quite a bit different, I don't really know, I havn't even opened it lol.

GW can make some awesome looking models for sure! I mean look at the mentioned Dark Eldar! Dark Elves will probably be gorgeous! New CSM Raptors are sweet looking, the new Warpsmith, Forge/Maulerfeinds, I also hate the heldrake (Deamons dont need dragons). Ogres came out with cool toys when they got redone, Skaven, Lizards, The new Tomb Kings models, TG's and ME's are really nice The corpse cart is a nice looking model. I mean GW knows what they're doing most of the time, it's just every once in a while they drop the ball.

For instance: Centurions, The Skull Cannon Khorne thing, Vargheists (Some people love them, I do not), Beastmen Minotours, Slaughter Brute (I like the other variant of it though). This is all a matter of personal opinion though.

@The Hidden One: The models are super cool, I just don't think that they are worth the same price as terminators.

@Count Darveth: GW Makes some awesome models for sure, But saying that other mini companies are bad? Bane Legion, Kingdom Death, Anima Tactics has some good ones, Merc Minis, Reaper is kinda hit or miss, Scibor (Fantasy and SciFi), There are more for sure and they all produce nive sculpts. I mean they're more for characters instead of units but still.
 

Count michael

The Undead Sparky
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
784
#18
I love defilers, a bit annoyed how expensive with the cost of one but always include one or two of them, I love the chaos mainly for plague Marines. I just would of preferred some legion/ warband rules like the loyalists have to better represent each legion some of the chapter tactics are pretty damn nasty ( i am praying for a death guard supplement soon imagine the fluff in it). Also having it so space marine hqs can become eternal warrior but not daemon princes kinda annoys me (unless you get BL which sucks )

I loved the new chaos models well apart from the helldrake (should've kept dragons in fantasy) I agree there are heaps of companies that do just as good models sometimes better than GW like avatars of war which I love for their warriors of apocalypse range.
 

Corien Sumatris

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#19
Thats another one! I'm a big fan of Khorne, but to each god their own.

I think instead of black legion they should have gone for a total legions book. Include the 7 and let it ride.
 

Ravenheart

Grave Guard
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
221
#20
There are nine traitor legions. World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Death Guard, Thousand Sons, Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Word Bearers, Black Legion and Dark Angels (the last ones changed sides before it was noticed). The Alpha Legion WERE loyal, they sided with Horus to ensure the destruction of chaos.
 

Count michael

The Undead Sparky
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
784
#22
Corien Sumatris said:
Thats another one! I'm a big fan of Khorne, but to each god their own.

I think instead of black legion they should have gone for a total legions book. Include the 7 and let it ride.
At least your not one of those slippery Tzeentch lovers:tongue:

I know right, you could already do a black legion army already the supplement was a bit unnecessary really (no offence to the BL lovers) but the supplement is entirly identical as the codex just everything must take VOTLW (Not free like damn loyalist no fear stupity but pay for it), well apart from some of those cool artefacts (Eternal warrior and lv 4 mastery sorcerers yes please) and all that lovely fluff on the boys in black:). Hell all it would of took would of been chaos legion tactics each with its own strentgh and weakness like the loyalist one but more chaosy . More god specific and legion upgrades so you can actually represent the legion you love, oh and bring back the mark of chaos undivided not all the legions worshiped one god just look at the Word Bearers. Forgeworld's 30K does it quite nicely with the different legions, GW should pay attention and give everyone equal treatment
 

Corien Sumatris

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#23
Right!! I just really want special things for the astral claws/red corsairs! They may not be a legion but man huron is cool!
 

Count michael

The Undead Sparky
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#24
I was really disappointed with the actual codex especially with all the rumours about there being two CSM books, one was going to be a Chaos Legion book, the other Chaos Renegades oh the possibilites. At least Huron has a cool Warlord trait, infiltrating is fun especially with terminators:)
 

Corien Sumatris

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#25
Oh that's for sure but his rules don't really fit him quite right. I see him as 40k's konrad. He should have good rules but is hard to control.
 
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