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Just used end times magic for the first time

Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
103
#1
And I freaking loved it.

It to me is alot more fun than six dicing shit all the time. It kind of feels like two wizards dueling it out. I love how you have to roll to see how many casting and dispel dice you can attempt to use. Kind of leaves an element of chance even if you have a few casting dice v a pool of dispel dice.
 

LordTobiothan

Crypt Horror
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
583
#3
I'm going to guess that no high elves or lizards were involved. From the accounts on these forums the rules don't seem to break things until the 100+ spell wizards come out.
 

Seneschal

Liche
True Blood
Joined
May 15, 2008
Messages
5,524
#4
Glad you enjoyed it, Steapa.

What did you play against? What was in your list and would you change anything for future games?
 
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
103
#5
Glad you enjoyed it, Steapa.

What did you play against? What was in your list and would you change anything for future games?
I played 2 games recently, both against dark elves (my wifes army) It does add considerable amounts of time to the magic phases. Because you really have to think about whether or not you want to try and dispel. Because once you declare your dispelling....lets say I used 5 dice to cast a spell, and you roll that you can only use one to try and dispel, you may not have a chance and you lose that dice. In the end I found it to be a much more balanced magic phase.. Most times I was able to mitigate a lot of the damage caused and rez my fallen, but there were some rounds where I had 6 doom bolts thrown at one of my units utterly annihilating 20-30 of them. When you consider that trying to cast those big spells saps a lot of dice from the pool that kind of evens things out. It was also nice not having to try and six dice my basic spells (Invocation of Nehek) to try and get one rez off. It really brought a lot of survivability to the undead infantry builds. I think that alot of armies just shut us down previously. Our magic phase was entirely dedicated to rezzing simply to stay in the game. And our units aren't as good because they are rezzable, was kind of a catch 22 I felt. Which is why the tourny builds were vampire knight squads which were rezable with one cast and delivered characters. The rest of the army was nigh useless.

So I paid dearly some turns, but I also was rewarded some turns.
 

LordTobiothan

Crypt Horror
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
583
#6
When you roll the D6 to determine max dice you aren't forced to use any of them. So if you roll 1 to cast or 1 to dispel you can just for go the roll. That's a maximum dice aloud not the minimum.

Also the D6 to dispel only applies to wizards. If you are okay with missing the +2 or +4 from your wizard you can select your dispel dice amount.

Also the army is called vampire counts, not random undead, of course our armies are character based. ;)
 
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
360
#7
I find it saves a lot of time in the beginning. You just roll for table side, set a few units down, roll for first turn .. and you're playing.

The extra time that Steapa is explaining is simply time thinking, and this time will be reduced as you get familiar with your spell lores and used to the new phase dynamics. In the same way, a new player with 3 wizards of different lores will take a lot of time to figure out what spells to take before the game, and what spell will work best during the game. At least the time taken is now in context during the action - you can plan your next move as your opponent figures out what they want to do.

In addition, you can often throw out a lot of spells. I use cards and the first thing I do is set aside spells I cant use (missiles in combat, out of range, etc). Then I pick out the ones that will be most useful and just go at it. I've been taking Vamps, Shadow and Death and it takes me 5 minutes to do my a magic phase.

I agree that knowing all the lores at once is annoying. I'm suprised that they didn't add a clause where wizards who know multiple lores have to pick only one, or just keep their default spells. The no limit freaks me out as well - I think they should have said a max of 24. The "pick the two highest" for phoenixes and the chaos table is also pretty annoying (as if the new combied chaos and combined elves needed more of a boost).

Aside from these minor things, I think the new magic phase is great. I love jumping into the action quicker.

Also, the minimum number of dice you must use is always one. So you have to waste a dice for any spell attempt.

Assuming you can forgo the + to dispel a spell using 10 dice with your "army" is a stretch. Just as we assume that "broken concentration" no longer applies to the dispeller, I think we can assume that your army counts as a "wizard" for dispeling purposes.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
103
#8
Yes, but the mechanic is,
I find it saves a lot of time in the beginning. You just roll for table side, set a few units down, roll for first turn .. and you're playing.

The extra time that Steapa is explaining is simply time thinking, and this time will be reduced as you get familiar with your spell lores and used to the new phase dynamics. In the same way, a new player with 3 wizards of different lores will take a lot of time to figure out what spells to take before the game, and what spell will work best during the game. At least the time taken is now in context during the action - you can plan your next move as your opponent figures out what they want to do.

In addition, you can often throw out a lot of spells. I use cards and the first thing I do is set aside spells I cant use (missiles in combat, out of range, etc). Then I pick out the ones that will be most useful and just go at it. I've been taking Vamps, Shadow and Death and it takes me 5 minutes to do my a magic phase.

I agree that knowing all the lores at once is annoying. I'm suprised that they didn't add a clause where wizards who know multiple lores have to pick only one, or just keep their default spells. The no limit freaks me out as well - I think they should have said a max of 24. The "pick the two highest" for phoenixes and the chaos table is also pretty annoying (as if the new combied chaos and combined elves needed more of a boost).

Aside from these minor things, I think the new magic phase is great. I love jumping into the action quicker.

Also, the minimum number of dice you must use is always one. So you have to waste a dice for any spell attempt.

Assuming you can forgo the + to dispel a spell using 10 dice with your "army" is a stretch. Just as we assume that "broken concentration" no longer applies to the dispeller, I think we can assume that your army counts as a "wizard" for dispeling purposes.
Also, it takes a lot more time resolving spell affects. My opponent was casting bladewind on my block of 60 skellies and thats 60 dice I had to resolve iniative tests and then hits...etc etc....cast this 4-5 times.
 

najo

Mortarch of the Dark Soul
True Blood
Joined
Dec 23, 2012
Messages
2,047
#9
My main issue with the khaine magic rules is the D6 dice for power and dispel disrupts player interaction. There is no way to circumvent this as far as I can tell, other than dispelling as an army and that option favors the dispelling player. My other issue is being able to spam cast even if dispelled as creative use of spells and more of that interaction goes out the door.

So, has any one found ways to work around this? Any tactics or creativeu builds that mitigate tthese issues?
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Messages
131
#10
I have one game with new magic now with 2 different ways. First game was "First I throw how many dice I get to use and after that I choose the spell lvl". Second game was "First I choose spell and its lvl and after that I throw how many dice i may use for that spell". I have to say I liked the second one much more. Just because the opportunity to throw too little dices for casting spells. It makes end of times magic much less overpower. And You just can't rely that that one wizard can use those 20 power dices anymore and summon half an army or buff all other army.
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Messages
49
#11
I played it myself last night for the first time too.

I took Nagash and it really slowed our game down, but I think that was mainly my fault as I am not super familiar with any lore apart from Vampires. It lead to lots of page flipping and reading spell effects.

We were also playing that if the spell was dispelled or failed we couldn't cast it again. This lead to situations where say for example I wanted to cast a 16+ spell I could roll up a 1 power dice to cast thereby losing that spell for the rest of the phase.
 
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