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Knights of the Bloody Rose

Aren

Crypt Horror
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
513
#1
So, I kind of want to surprise you all with the blood knights I will start painting very very soon.

However, at the same time they are for a competition and I need some advice on a few things.
And when I need advice,,,well I come here.

My Blood Knights will have deep cliché red armour with very sharp highlights to give it an overall sharp look. The theme for them will be the tragic tale of the knights of the bloody rose, yes none of you know that tale because I invented it, but I won't spam this thread with my own fanfiction, I know that can be annoying xD

So, onto the problem. The nightmares, should they be black with grey/white highlights or a stark white?

I like the idea of white but I'm not sure it will work, it will give them a kind of otherworldly, elite feel.

Someone help me out, white or black nightmares?
 

Cela Shyish

Grave Guard
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
283
#2
It depends how you want them to appear, typically cos undead are very dark anyway we use black for nightmares, it also looks much more menacing with red glowing eyes. Whereas white is more associated with "the good guys" particularly for steeds, a white horse would be quite unusual for a horror themed unit, much more suited for armies like Bretonnia.

If you want an other worldly feel you can go with the white and use washes and drybrushes to make it look kind of ethereal or...mmmm if you went with the black there is kind of a reverse glowy effect you can do that if you highlight the inner sections of its mane and tail or some other areas you can create a kind of...dunno how to put it but if you want I can post a picture of how I've done it on mannfred's dread abyssal to give you an example of what I mean? See if its something you'd like to consider.

Edit: This is the technique I mean, obviously ignore the mess on Ashigaroth's armour, I just tested this technique out awhile ago on this model and haven't gotten around to neatening....or even properly painting it for that matter. But still the glow effects around the skulls, bones, recesses, etc is what I mean.
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Aren

Crypt Horror
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
513
#3
Crystal I get what you mean but please post pictures, I am sure there will be techniques or styles I can shamelessly steal!

As for the horses I though something along the lines of this picture. Not the riders, just horses
 

Attachments

Cela Shyish

Grave Guard
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
283
#4
Mmm you could do, cos that does look amazing but its hard to tell how easy it would be to translate that to models, I will be testing out some stuff on hexwraiths myself so I'll let you know if I find one that gets a similar effect to what you're after. Also I updated my post like a min after you posted with the example
 

Aren

Crypt Horror
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
513
#5
Yup, thanks! It's looking good and it is what I thought you meant! I think I'd prefer to keep the horses more muted than that though, but it is a possibility. Deep dark red works very well with stark white, like blood on snow. I am just unsure if it will work on the GW blood knights. We all know black works well for them....ugh. Plus I daren't use any blues whatsoever. Whenever I use red and blue on the same model I can't help thinking it looks like spiderman xD
 

Cela Shyish

Grave Guard
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
283
#6
I think I see what you mean with the spiderman and it was just a thought, to be honest I'll probably use this technique on my blood knights when I get the official models, I'll have a play around on my hexwraiths and see if I can get the kind of effect you're after for the main body, unfortunately they are skeletal so it won't be an exact thing but should give ideas.
 

Leithel

Grave Guard
Joined
Jun 3, 2015
Messages
286
#7
Don't be too scared of using red and blues. Unless you use primary reds and blues it won't look like spiderman at all.

I like the idea of white horses by the way, the stark contrast with the red armour could look amazing. YOu'll have to shade well though so that it doesn't overpower the miniatures, I'd suggest deep shadows if you choose to go with white, maybe even all the way down to black.

Painting with white is a challenge, but if you persevere it can come out with excellent results.
 

Aren

Crypt Horror
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
513
#8
Don't be too scared of using red and blues. Unless you use primary reds and blues it won't look like spiderman at all.

I like the idea of white horses by the way, the stark contrast with the red armour could look amazing. YOu'll have to shade well though so that it doesn't overpower the miniatures, I'd suggest deep shadows if you choose to go with white, maybe even all the way down to black.

Painting with white is a challenge, but if you persevere it can come out with excellent results.
I'll give it a go, I think what I will do is start the nightmares on a dark blue and then very slowly build them up to a white. It will be a lot of work but I hope that the blue base will give them a very cold appearance, which is what I'm going for.

Should I paint little swirls and haunted faces/ghosts onto the skin of the nightmares or is that going overboard?
 

Cela Shyish

Grave Guard
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
283
#9
That is a lot of effort and it is what I did with one of my banshees

This one:
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If that's the effect (the one on the skirt) you're going for then you'll need a good 4 or 5 blues and ceramite white, it also helps to have a small plastic pot for mixing the paints, use your darkest blue as a base and then mix that up with a tiny bit of white, adding a bit more white each stage of drybrushing then obviously switch out to a lighter blue at a certain stage, it is a VERY painful process, but if you can do it then good luck ^.^

Also I'd say probably no on the swirls and stuff, not only cos I don't think it would work but if you do it and end up ruining an hour's worth of drybrushing you'll probably scream or cry (if you're anything like me)
 

Aren

Crypt Horror
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
513
#10
I'm with you on the swirls. I want the model to have the WOW factor for the comp but I doubt the swirls would work as I imagine them to in the end.

Very nice banshee! I think I will glaze/layer the skin very lightly (I expect roughly 2-3 hours of work...per horse). I like drybrushing but it always leaves me with a sort of "dusty" look on the model and I want these to be very sharp. So yeah I will almost exclusively be using layering and glazing with a bit of wet-blending on the weapons. I would wet blend the horses but I am not confident enough in it, the only time wet-blending has worked for me is when I have used it for a metallic transition from blue to silver (kind of like Non metallic metal however I am using NMM techniques with metallic paints. So it's really just metallic metal but with transitions).

As for the armour, here is an example of a wight king I have mostly painted (base and minor stuff is left to do). The blood knights armour will be like his, except perhaps going a bit darker.
 

Leithel

Grave Guard
Joined
Jun 3, 2015
Messages
286
#11
Good quality painting and I'm really looking forward to your results. Free hand goes a long way in a comp when done well and the opposite when done poorly, based on your work I rekon you'll do well. Dark blue to white will look excellent with that red I think, no spiders in sight!
 

Aren

Crypt Horror
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
513
#12
Good quality painting and I'm really looking forward to your results. Free hand goes a long way in a comp when done well and the opposite when done poorly, based on your work I rekon you'll do well. Dark blue to white will look excellent with that red I think, no spiders in sight!
Thanks! I spent roughly 6 hours on that Wight king (since then I made his cloak better too) but I want these knights to be my magnum opus, my first serious comp entry. Here is an example of my freehand, something more elaborate will be going on the BK banner.

(And no, the flying cat will not be going onto the BK banner, don't you even dare ask for that!)
 

Leithel

Grave Guard
Joined
Jun 3, 2015
Messages
286
#13
Pretty good man, better than I've done that's for sure. I rekon go for broke. The one thing about a magnum opus is that as soon as you finish it you want to do another one!
 

Aren

Crypt Horror
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
513
#14
I hope so! I want to keep getting better at painting. Here is just a very quick, rough idea for the skin colour of the nightmares, look at the top half of the body, not the bottom

 

Cela Shyish

Grave Guard
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
283
#15
They're all looking really good so far ^.^ I absolutely love that flower banner, I may have to borrow that idea XP
 

Aren

Crypt Horror
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
513
#16
They're all looking really good so far ^.^ I absolutely love that flower banner, I may have to borrow that idea XP
Thanks! That's the bloody (bleeding) rose that I talked about. There will be a more fancy version of that on their banner. It's what the whole army theme is based around. I can bore you with my fan made lore about it later on when I have more time if you want :tongue:

Do you think the white/blue/grey is subtle enough? I used water as a thinning medium here, when I pick up my blood knights tomorrow I'll grab some Lahmian medium for a smoother effect.
 

Leithel

Grave Guard
Joined
Jun 3, 2015
Messages
286
#17
Water is fine unless you live somewhere that doesn't filter it. I've never used anything other than water, but if you really have to buy a thinner, go for another brand and get the airbrush thinner. It's the same stuff (really just distilled water) but it's cheaper and comes in a larger bottle.

Blue transitions look good (that'd be a nice ghoul unit), will make an excellent vampire horse. You might darken the shadows a little if you want to make a stark contrast with the red armour depending on the models you're using as blood knights.
 

Aren

Crypt Horror
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
513
#18
GW blood knights. I have to say they have the best nightmares I've seen (debatable between Gamezone and GW however I think gamezone has much better riders but GW have the horses covered). I find water creates lots of puddles. I have to be really careful not to let the paint puddle on the model, even if I'm using a tiny amount on my smallest brush. According to Kris from miniwargaming using a medium gets rid of the puddles (or reduces them). Hence why I want to use a medium.

I should be picking them up tomorrow, I'll post updates as I paint them!
 

Borgnine

Moderator
Staff member
True Blood
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
2,037
#19
In my opinion white horses look good on undead when they look sickly and pale, yet still invigorated with some necromantic magics. You could try to add some bruises to them or veins showing up from under the skin, it would look properly cool! ;)
 

Aren

Crypt Horror
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
513
#20
In my opinion white horses look good on undead when they look sickly and pale, yet still invigorated with some necromantic magics. You could try to add some bruises to them or veins showing up from under the skin, it would look properly cool! ;)

Veins! There shall be veins! Progress picture one, primed black, based armour with mixture of red and black, based horse with codex grey, washed with null oil, went over with codex grey. Next steps (tomorrow) will be to lighten the horse a lot, so grey building up to pure white.

Oh and yes I know I know I am a messy painter and make lots of mistakes....It's kind of my style. I clean up as I go, the finished product will look much neater.

 

Aren

Crypt Horror
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
513
#21
Yes, no? I am very much torn. My shading hasn't been as smooth as I had hoped but I don't know how to fix it all without messing up what I already have there.

After a good 5 hours work on that today I hate myself, those models and my dire painting skills.

Anyone ever get so down after painting?

 

Dragonet

Wight King
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
450
#22
I reckon that's lovely and neat! Wouldn't know where to start with the horse but it looks like you do; my main question is will the cliché armour get that gorgeous cliché lacquered finish?
 

Leithel

Grave Guard
Joined
Jun 3, 2015
Messages
286
#23
Sleep on it @Aren (though I'm sure you already have) and come and look at it again the next day. I often hate the job I've done then go to bed and realise it's better than I thought the next day.

White is extremely hard to work with and to be honest yours looks pretty good, especially considering the photo is a huge closeup and the camera picks up every tiny little blending consideration that they eye can't even see.

Often I find that my blending starts looking pretty sweet once I paint the items around it, particularly if I've gone outside the lines a little on the initial work (which I always do). Worst case if you hate it when you've painted the rest, come back and do it again. Best part about the horse is it's not fine detail so you can paint it 5 or 6 times without losing detail.

Also, love the blue hoofs.

Afterthought: If you ink the hair (assuming it's staying white / gray ) it will smooth out a lot.
 

Aren

Crypt Horror
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
513
#24
Thanks @Leithel and @Dragonet , I guess I always get like that, I'm working on all 5 at once and it's really tiring, even looking at him now he looks better.

Dragonet - yup, the rest of the week I'll be doing the armour, it will need the extra time.

Leithel - I'll do that, I'll paint the rest, see how he looks and then go over the horse once again when I am not sick of painting white.

Here are two others from the squad, the arms are just blu-tacked on, right arms and shields I will add once painted!

 
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Farmer7574

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
1,587
#25
@Aren Your white horses are looking pretty good.

As said, those pictures show the mini a lot bigger than how it actually is and white is a pain to paint. I think you're making nice progress and am looking forward to seeing how these guys turn out.

Keep up the nice work.
 
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