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Lahmian Playtesting Thread

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
Staff member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
27,916
#1
Having found collecting playtesting data all in one thread a bit too confusing, I have decided to create threads for each of the Bloodlines.

In here you should post your experiences using the Bloodline stat changes, powers and optional army lists. You can also post your army lists here for feedback.

Any relevant feedback will be collated in this first post.
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
28
#2
After a very busy period, I finally found a moment to test the Lahmia Bloodline army and write a first review.
It was a two versus two battle: 2000 O&G+2000 Lahmia Vs 2000 Lizards+2000 Wood Elves
I made some changes to my previous list to improve my magic phase. The total army size remained small though. In the final phase, we won the battle.
During the first three turns, it looked rather grim for the alliance of Orcs and Vampires : A first turn miscast of a shaman resulted in a nice explosion of green meat (too bad he took the Horn of Ungok’ with him when he died), and the misfire of the doom diver was also not really a success. The fanatics were, the turn after being released, heavily attracted by our own units, resulting in a loss of half the orc units and some Black Knights before I could shoot the little buggers down with the repeater crossbow elves.



Selena, Duchesse des Courtisane (Vampire lady) : extra level,
Midnight Dancer,
Aura of Dark Majesty,
Blood Drinker,
Nightshroud,
Wristbands of black gold,
Talisman of Lycni (running around and joining the units that needed recovery)
Great Bow (473)

Jully la Riche (Vampire): Overflowing Coffers,
Helm of Commandment,
dispel scroll
extra dagger and Great Bow (202 Points)

Baron Joseph la Flamme (Wight King): BSB,
steed,
balefire spike,
enchanted shield (140 points)

Adara, Shadow’s Embrace (Swain): Dark elf sorceress Level2 (Dark magic),
Life Taker
Dark steed
(177 points)

Core:
Swain Entourage: 10 repeater crossbows with shields + mus. (115 points)

20 skeletons with heavy armor, full command and warbanner (245 points)

21 skeletons with full command and Banner of Hellfire (198 points)

5 wolves (40 points)

Special:
6 Black Knights, full plate, champ and banner, Royal banner of Strigos (235 points)

Rare:
3 wraiths, banshee (175 Points)

First impressions :
Having an army that nearly outshot the wood elves was a funny surprise. The look on their face made it worthwhile.
Lahmia countess : Midnight Dancer: :D very nice power. After seeing the effect for the first time (driads were in trance while watching the graceful dance of my lady), they ignored here in combat. What is a better protection of your lady than being ignored? (it was not good for her ego though ;) )
Aura of Dark Majesty: this power becomes far more powerful in conjunction with the other Lahmia powers. (they had to pass a leadership test -3 before they could even attack her, even the saurus warriors, while being cold blooded, negated her.)
Vampire: Overflowing Coffers: useful but expensive power: just to get that extra scroll in, you pay 55 points (30 for the power and 25 for the scroll)
Swain : was very good in taking out dispel dice. Lifetaker is a wonderful crossbow (3 shots S4 always hitting on 2). This character took out an altered noble and reduced the amount of wardancers spectacularly.
Swain entourage: spent most of their time shooting our own fanatics, which were plowing through our units. They still managed to kill three cold ones. (armor piercing repeaters are not bad at all)
Heavy armor skeletons: They performed really well. While heaving WS5 (given by helm), they survived 5 rounds of combat with a tooled up saurus unit with spears (21 S4 attacks each round! ).
Black Nights: combining the 2+ AS with movement 8 is just good, that extra movement may not be underestimated.

Overall impression:
On first sight, the Lahmia bloodline is not overpowered at all, but the versatility is wonderful. Having the possibility to completely change the theme (and background story) of your army, really attracts me. The power of Lahmia lies also in the synergy with other armies. This bloodline not just messes with the psychology of the models on the table, but also with mind of your opponents, which gives this army an extra dimension.

The fact that the cost of the bloodline power is rather high, limits our normal vampires to having only one power though. I would suggest to convert the ‘Overflowing Coffers’ to a leveled power. (15 points to have 10 more points in magic items and 30 points to have 30 more points in magic items). In most cases your vampire just needs that extra few item points (in my case 5 points). Fluf-wise, it can make sense: not all vampire have the same wealth. This gives the vampire the possibility to take second bloodline power.

My adversaries were mainly impressed by the durability of the skeletons in heavy armor and the synergy of a dark elf sorceress with vampire counts. (the dark magic, being quite devastating, draws out the dispel dice and creates an open field for the vampire magic) They were not that impressed by my lady. They just negated her, which was the best protection I could wish for. She was indeed not the powerhouse they were used to see, but being able to raise knight after knight (with Blooddrinker), while my banshee screamed them to death (aided by Aura of Dark Majesty) delivered us the edge at the end.
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
Staff member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
27,916
#3
Yay - I was hoping someone would feedback on my lovely Lahmians. I am glad to see that the list did not seem OP. A few questions:

So would you say that the Lahmians need to have more 25pt powers, i.e. a couple that you can have for a hero?

Did your opponents think anything was OP? Whilst they were not impressed with your lady, was it just a grumble as they were not used to her powers, or did they feel the powers combined were too strong? What was your impression in this regard?

How were the Great Bows - ok for their points?

Finally - thank you very much for the feedback. Are you going to get a chance for more games, and if so could I be cheeky and ask if you could try out the Divine Beauty power?
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
28
#4
They saw that they could bypass the combined powers of my Lady by ignoring her. (since only those who want to attack her must do a leadership test) It was much easier for them to attack the unit she was in. The fact that she managed to do a only few wounds each round of combat, did not make her a big threat. What they did not realise is not attacking here, made her safer than any ward save or armor save.
(although a certain wardancer lord (with AoN) was very eager to take her out, she could avoid him with here movement of 9. My sorceress with Lifetaker nearly destroyed the complete wardancer unit he was in.)

Greatbows :
Can be very good on a lord: even when you march (in my case, 18 inch), you still hit on a 3+. To bad I'm known to roll 1's and 2's. ;)
On a hero vampire (with BS4), 12 points is a bit prizy, but the bow still remains a valid option.
Greatbow would even be nicer when you could combine them with poison. (it's the way of the Asp Goddess afterall)
In this way, even monsters can be threatened. (not that you will kill any monster, but just the idea of poisonous arrows will mess with your oponents mind and make him more careful ;) )

Just one lesser power around 15 points will suffice. (in this way, it can be combined with the more manipulative powers 'Behind the Scenes' and 'Seduction' )
That's were the idea of a leveled 'Overflowing Coffers' could kick in (converting 15 points to 10 points of magic items).

I really hope I can do some more playtesting. I certainly want to test Divine Beauty, Behind the Scenes and Seduction. I'm also rather curious what I can do with the combination 'Crimson Gem of Lahmia'/Vanity of the Dead/Blooddrinker ;).
 
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
63
#5
Evening CN

Next Thursday I'll have my first playtest with Lahmia.
Here's the list I'll be using. I went for a fairly classical approach.

Lady: Lv3, divine beauty, nightshroud, sword of might, gem of blood, rod of flaming death

Heroine: Lv1, BSB, quicksilver, vanity of the death, sword of battle, talisman of lycni

Necromancer: invocation and vanhells, book of arkhan

Necromancer: invocation and vanhells, black pariapt, power stone

20 skeletons: full command, banner of hellfire
20 skeletons: full command
10 ghouls
5 dire wolves
5 dire wolves
corpse cart: balefire

20 grave gaurd: full command, banner of barrows

3 wraiths: banshee

Total: 2000p

In normal circumstances I would never take a 100p power. However, it is a playtest and against bretonnia. So why not? Could be helpful.
I like my heroine. With quicksilver and sword of battle she has 5A.
I have tried to add a second cart. So ASF becomes a relatively sure fact. But I cann't find the points. Then I considered dropping the carts all together over 5 fell bats. But now my opponent will have to take into account three bound items.
The banner of hellfire is there just because I still had 10p to spent.
I'm looking forward to the battle.

A report and feedback will follow.

Yours
B
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
Staff member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
27,916
#6
Excellent!

I look forward to your report, especially as it will be the first one I have seen with the Divine Beauty Power.
 
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
694
#7
well looking forward to playtesting a bit of this. options look very good, some real interesting tweaks, GG with platye armour.... yes please!

skeles with HA seem a little pointless as they come in approx same as GG and have less str and T.

cant help but think that 4 vamps with behind enemy lines is gonna make for a boring game......
 
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
63
#8
Playtest Lahmia Bloodline

Evening CN

Last Thursday I played my first Bloodline playtest, as promised. I went for my good old favourite Bloodline – Lahmia.
We agreed on a 2K Battle. My opponent confronted my army with a Bretonnian force.

My list:
Vampire Lady: Lv3, divine beauty, sword of might, nightshroud, gem of blood, rod of flaming death
Vampire heroine: Lv1, BSB, quicksilver, vanity of the dead, flayed hauberk, sword of battle, talisman of lycni.
Necromancer: 2 spells (invocation and vanhels), book of arkhan
Necromancer: 2 spells (invocation and vanhels), power stone, black pariapt

20 skeletons: full command
20 skeletons: full command
10 ghouls
5 dire wolves
5 dire wolves
Corpse cart: balefire

20 grave guards: full command, banner of the barrows

3 wraiths: banshee

My Bretonnian enemy:
General: barbed warhorse, lance & shield, virtue of the impetuous knight
Paladin: BSB, barbed warhorse, shield, valorous standard, virtue of duty
Damsel: Lv2, barbed warhorse, the silver mirror

4 pegasus knights: musician, standard bearer
6 knights of the realm: musician, standard bearer
9 grail knights
9 knights errant: musician, standard bearer
9 knights errant: musician & standard bearer
9 knights errant: musician & standard bearer
10 peasant bowmen: villein, braziers
10 peasant bowmen: villein, braziers
10 peasant bowmen: villein, braziers

Totaal 1995

My Lady rolled raised the dead, curse of years and wind of undead
For my heroine I also got wind of undead, but I switched it for raise the dead

My opponent took Lore of life and rolled 1 and 6

Terrain
There was not too much terrain on the battlefield. In my opponent’s deployment zone, on his righthand side, there was only a small forest. In my zone there was a hedge on my lefthand side and midcentre I faced a hill.
On my righthand side, near the centre of the battelfield, there was a small lake and a L-shaped hedge.

I rolled highest and set up first, taking the hill side.

Oh a small side note, before we even began my opponent was taken by surprise, as I fielded a complete infantry army.

I went for a fairly defensive deployment. From left to right, with the hil on my left. Skeletons, grave guards with Lady, skeletons with BSB. Behind the first unit of skellies the ghouls went together with both necromancers. Behind the grave guards the corpse cart took place. In front of the first unit of skellies went one wolf unit. The other took place in front of the second skellie unit. The wraiths took place next to them.

My opponent’s army deployed as follows (from my left to right).
Peasants, forest, errants, errants with BSB and paladin, grail knights, knights of the realm, peasants, peasants, errants. The pegasi took place near the realm knights.

Turn 1
As my opponent saved his prayers I went first.
Save the wraiths who marched forward up to the hedge nothing alse moved. In de magic phase all my focus went to raisinge a fresh unit of 12 zombies just in front of the hill.

The Bretonnia eager to see battle marched forward, save both units of bowmen and the errands on my right. The grail knights together with the knights of the realm slowly stopped their march when facing the beauty of my lady.
The Damsel on the other hand was utterly enraged by this and with irrisistable force casted spell 6. However, only two grave guards were killed by falling rocks.

Turn 2
The newly raised moved forwards. The wolves on my left front marched towards the errants o nthe left side. My second unit took place in front of het grail knights. Both units provoking the knights to charge them. The wratihs moved slightly to their left so my banshee could target the realm kngihts. Consequently one knight dropped dead from that eerie howl.
The rest of my infantry slowly moved ahead.
My lady put up her rod but wasn’t able to harm the realm knights. Again the real focus went to raising zombies. The slain revived and joined the unit of zombies, ready to take away life.

The Errants on my right saw the wraiths and succesfully charged them – it was hearcleaving though, the wraiths were a fraction of an inch too close. Eager to destroy some undead the errant knights had no eye for beauty. A wraith met his doom as a consequence.
The realm knights together with the grail knighs were still mesmerised by my Lady. Even the paladin and his unit weren’t strong willed enough now, and stayed in place facing uncountable zombies.
Again the damsel killed another grave guard by letting the earth shake.
The wolves on my left got attacked by the bowmen. Two wolves burned to dead by the flaming arrows. The other unit somehow survived every single arrow attack.

Turn 3
Feeling confident my Lady held here troops in order. Attempts were made to re-raise the wraith. But to no avail. Otherwise, the Grail knights were close enough and my Lade succesfully casted curse of years on them. One knight dropped from his horse due to old age.

The Errants finally shook the spell off and charged the zombies. The Knights of the realm also were able to charge the wolves. The Grail Knights stayed in place as did the other Errant unit. The three remaining dire wolves were again under some heavy flaming attacks. The bowmen mercilessly slaughtered them all.
The Grail remained under the curse and again some Knights met there reaper.
After disimating the wolves, the Knights of the realm helped their brethren in killing off zombies. Heated up by combat the Realm Knights ran over. The Errants on the otherhand kept their calm and restrained.
The surviving wraith struggled against the Knights and whithered away.

Turn 4
Due to failed charges, baiting the enemy, etc, the Bretonnian army lost coherency. One unit obstructed the other, chaos reigned. The Skeletons on my left moved up a bit. The Grave guard followed. The unit skeletons on my right closed in as well.
In the magic phase a freshly unit of zombies was raised just behind the Knights. The necromancers vanhellsed them right into a rear charge. Outnumbered the Knights fled right through the Pegasi.

The Errants on my left charged the zombies in the flank. The unit next to the Grail Knights tried to pass by the zombies rear in order to charge the ghoul unit. But as said before, manouvering was hell for the knights. Consequently the charge failed. By this time the Grail Knights were being freed by the curse.
Without real surprise the Errands munched through the zombies and overran onto the hill. The Pegasi flew over landing near the flank of my precious Grave Guards.
The Errants that killed the wraiths moved over the hedge, closing the gap with the skeletons.

Turn 5
Time to move in my Lady thought. The skeletons still too far off the Grail Knights moved in and were vanhellsed into them. The other skellie unit charged the Errands.
The ghouls charged the pegasi. The Grave guards turned and got vanhellsed into the flank of the pegasi.
All units prevailed. In addition, the ghouls consequently flanked the Errants on the hill. The skeletons driving off the Grail Knights, pursuied into the rear flank of the other Errant unit. Unfortunately, my Lady lost a brave necromnacers in battle.

The Pegasi and Grial Knights rallied. The Errands however fled off the battlefield.
The unts in combat bravely fought onwards. Hacking and slashing through endless skeleton warriors and ghouls.

Turn 6
The Grave gaurds joined battle with the skeletons already in combat. Outnumbering the Errants now, they succesfully destroy the knights. My Lycni heroine saw here changes and charged out slicing up some Bretonnian Bowmen. She secured here flank by raising a small wall of zombies next to the other bowmen unit.

The Bretonnian Knights licked their wounds, and slowly retreated from the battlefield

A solid victory for Lahmia.
I have only lost two raised units of zombies, my wraith unit and two units of wolves.

Feedback on the list.
Well, one thing is for sure. Somehow I completely got that Lahmian feel again.
I did forget the -1 on LD when in BtB with a Lahmia Vamp from time to time.
The Divine Beauty is pretty fair I guess. It can really mess up the movement and pace of your enemy. I never felt I was in any real danger. Divine Beauty got me to control his movement and that is a big advantage in WHFB.

Also, and this is more important, my opponent didn’t feel Divine Beauty, and the list, overpowered. Annoying on the other hand, yes!
I know, I didn’t take Helm of commandment and Drakenhof banner. But Somehow I didn’t feel the urge to take it. Somehow these items didn’t seem right.
Did I miss them? No!

Would I take this to a tournament? Hm, a tough one I reckon. It is something to consider now, in contrast to the frostblade for example, which I would never take.. Divine Beauty on the other hand….

My Heroine’s kit is fine. Though she didn’t really shine in this battle, I do prefer this kit over the known lycni/infinite hatred/walking death/… as it is more into character.

Some (minor) questions did come up.
When a unit charges and has LOS to the Divine Beauty, does it first take its fear/terror test or the Divine Beauty test?
Does a unit which overruns and has LOS to Divine Beauty have to take the test?
And what with stubborn units, do they also suffer the -2 on their Ld?

I guess Divine Beauty will be great against some armies like Bretonnia, O&G,…
Against other, like Elves, it will be more of a challenge.
Anyway, a nice and characterful power.

Oh, CN you’ve got me now. What will I try next? Necrarch, Blood Dragons, Strigoi,…but first Lahmia againJ

Yours
B
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
Staff member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
27,916
#9
Thank you for the fantastic feedback. To be honest one line of that report made me really happy and proud with what we have done with the list:

Well, one thing is for sure. Somehow I completely got that Lahmian feel again.

That was the our aim and I am pleased we managed to do it, and also produce a list that worked! I was worried about the feedback for Divine Beauty, but I then for 100pts you are paying out for it.

The questions you asked are valid and I am glad we have picked them up. My thoughts are as follows:

When a unit charges and has LOS to the Divine Beauty, does it first take its fear/terror test or the Divine Beauty test?
I would say Divine Beauty first as that will be the thing that has their attention. If they manage to pull themselves away then they take the other tests as normal. I would even go as far to say that yes, if they fail the Divine Beauty test the until would not be able to flee from terror as they are entranced by the vampire. A bit of a double edged sword then, but I see that as fair.

Does a unit which overruns and has LOS to Divine Beauty have to take the test?
I would say as soon as they come into LOS then yes they have to take the test, and if they fail they cannot keep on overunning.

And what with stubborn units, do they also suffer the -2 on their Ld?
Yes they do.

However bear in mind these are my recommendations. I'm sure if one of the others disagrees they will say so.

Thank you for the report and I look forward to reading your future battles with the Bloodline Armies.
 
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
63
#10
Evening CN
The date of my second playtest battle has just been confirmed, 4th of March.
I'll be facing either O&G or Ogre Kingdom.

This is the list I'll be using.

Lady (general): Lv3, innocence lost, midnight dancer, sword of might, cadaverous cuirass, book of arkhan, gem of blood, nightmare
Heroine: Lv1, BSB, quicksilver, vanity of the dead, flayed hauberk, talisman of lycni, sword of battle
Heroine: Lv1, behind enemy scenes, lord of the dead, scroll, scroll

14 skeletons: full command
15 skeletons: full command
20zombies
5 dire wolves
5 dire wolves

5 fell bats
6 black knights: full command, banner of strigos (very likely general here)

3 wraiths: banshee
3 wraiths: banshee

Total: 2K
PD: 7
DD: 6
Bound items: 1

By the way, I've made this list last week. So I didn't know who I was going to be facing. The wraith tag team will hurt.

Yours
B
 

Bauglir

Skeleton
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
63
#14
Evening CN

I had my battle versus Ogres. A nice game.
I should be able to post my report tomorrow (aproximately same time).

Yours
B
 

Bauglir

Skeleton
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
63
#16
Evening CN

A bit later than promised disciple, but here it is.

Lahmia vs Ogres
2K

My list
Vamp: Lv3, innocence lost, midnight dancer, sword of might, book of arkhan, gem of blood, cadaverous cuirass, nightmere
Vamp: BSB, Lv1, quicksilver, vanity of dead, sword of battle, talisman of lycni, flayed hauberk
Vamp: Lv1: behind enemy scene, lord of the dead, scroll, scroll

14 skeletons: full command
15 skeletons, full command
5 dire wolves
5 dire wolves

5 fell bats
6 black knights: full command, banner of strigos

3 wraiths: banshee
3 wraiths: banshee

Ogres
Tyrant: greatweapon (with bulls)
Butcher: 2 scrolls, 2 tooth gnoblars (with belchers)
Butcher: scroll, bangstick, 2 tooth gnoblars (with iron guts)

4 bulls: musician, standard bearer, extra handweapons
4 iron guts: musician, standard bearer, lookout gnoblar, great weapons, heavy armour
4 yethees
4leadbelchers: light armour
10 gnoblar trappers
30 gnoblar fighters
30 gnoblar fighters
3 maneaters
gorger

Deployement
In the Ogres’ zone there was a low hedge (my righthand side). In my zone (left quarter) I had a hill near the middle, dividing my deployment zone. Then there was a forest, just outside of the Ogres’ deploymentzone, opposite of the hill.

Just before the Tyrant arrived with his army at the battlefield Lailath played her connections, pulling some strings here and there. A swain, hoping to join the vampire’s ranks one day, poisened the vile Tyrant and his Butcher.

Once darkness fell, both armies deployed their troops.
The fell bats flew on top of the hill lurking for prey. The dire wolves were in the frontline, ready to charge and uphold the enemy’s movement. Skeletons and zombies followed the wolves. Both thralls joined the same skeleton unit for the needed protection against the opposing brutes. The wraiths made a screen to protect the black knights and Lady Lailath.

The yethees hid behind the forest. To their right the maneaters were. Th bulls and Tyrant deployed on the left of the yethees as did the rest of the ogre army, save the gnoblars. The fighter took position on each corner in the back. Trappers on the other hand carefully took position in the forest.

The Tyrant, still suffering and furious by the sneaky intrusion, ordered his troops march forward. He wanted to engage to enemy as soon as possible. The Lady had to pay for it. “Revenge”, he roared. His troops answered with various warcries and off they were. As soon as the butchers got the wraiths in sight, the vampires saw a green magical energy clustering, revealing a magical attack on the wraiths. Alert as they were the vampires burned two scrolls to prevent this.


In the meantime the fell bats flew over behind the ninjas. The wolves charged the trappers, taking two casualties due to trapper shooting. Both units clashed but it wasn’t quite clear which unit would be victoriuos.
The wraiths met the belchers face to face. Lady Lailath, knowing she is a superiour mage in contrast to the butchers, van helsed one wraith unit into combat with the belchers. Though the banshees and wraiths managed to cause some damage, the Ogres were able to stand their ground.

The Tyrant, frustrated by the fact that some of his troops were either locked in combat and/or marched blocked, could do nothing else then ordering his unengaged infantry to reposition themselves. In addition, his gorger was nowhere be seen. Moreover, Lady Lailath and here thralls had no poblem containing the Ogre’s magic potential. Combat between the wolves and trappers, wraiths and belchers still continued. Although the wolves were being overwhelmed by the sneaky trappers.

By now the unit of iron guts and the second butcher were in charge range of Lady Lailath, here knights and the second wraith unit. Unfortunately they wern’t able to break them in one go. As the Ogre were smart enough to keep the Lady out of combat and concentrated there blows on the knights. The other butcher and last belchers were now taken down by the wraiths. The wolves on the other hand were less fortunate and were taken down to one. Lady Lailath gave sign to here second wolf unit to bait the maneaters onto the hill. Here infantry paced back to keep the ogres at bay.

As predicted the maneaters charged the wolves desimating the unit without mercy. However, they now had to move through difficult terrain in order to reach the undead again. The trappers finally took down the last wolf. Notwithstanding the tactical withdrawal of the undead infantry, the yethees and bulls were still in range and each unit charged a skeleton unit. The yethees took down a couple of skeletons. The brave skeleton captain, however, was able to injure a single yethee.
The gorger finally entered the battlefield and positioned itself behind the skeleton unit which was under attack by the bulls and tyrant.
The Tyrant was able to kill the battle standard bearer. However, the bulls and tyrant apparently were too eager and missed too many killing blows to this into a victory.


Trapped and overwhelmed by endless skeletons, and with a little help from of the banshees, the bulls had to flee eventually. The skeletons were again no match for the Yethees. Save my captain who bravely stood his ground – sold his bones dearly. My Lady together with the wraiths and knights killed the last butcher. The fell bats noticed the trappers and charged them. Killing every single trapper, they overran into the maneaters.
The zombies in between the skeleton units turned facing the yethees, preparing an attack.

The Tyrant rallied his unit, but found himself between a rock and a hard place. The gorger rear charged the surviving skeleton. And though the creature was able to crack a few skulls it wasn’t enough. The fell bats took a few casualties. My captain finally met his reaper.

Lady Lailath turned her unit and venhellsed into bulls and Tyrant, together with both wraith units. My banshees sang the bulls into their dead – rolling 11 and 12 is a bit too much. The frustrated Tyrant couldn’t stand it anymore and went face to face with the Lady. Here quick movements completely took him by surprise. Before he even realised he was being attacked, he sank on his knees and felt his warm blood running down his arms and belly. His vision blurred and the last thing he saw was a beautiful young woman leaning over him. In the meantime the zombies took on the yethees in the flank. Only fleeing could save them now.

The battle ended here as it was getting late and we both knew it was just a clean up for me now.

A nice battle. And yet again a victory for Lahmia.

Afterthoughts:
I showed my list to a couple of players. Again responses were quite positive. They all considered this a fair list. Not over the top/cheese. One was even surprised I didn’t had the drakenhof banner in there.

About the bloodline powers.
Innocence lost in combination with midnight dancer is fairly strong. But opponent’s can parry this by attacking the unit instead of the vampire.
One thing maybe. I find the wording of midnight dancer a bit too complicated. Wouldn’t it be more userfriendly when just stating that models in BtB with the vampire need to take the Ld-test. Cos now one needs to ask his opponent in every combatphase if s/he is going to attack the vampire or not.

Again I wasn’t able to really test my lycni vamp. But I like the powers notwithstanding.

Behind enemy scenes is a nice fluffy one. Not too costly. Would I take this to a tournament. Probably not. On the other, this power can do some real damage when taken more than once. Especially in <2K battles. E.g. I have two mean-chaos-fighting-machines here. Vampire player: well, why don’t I roll three D6 for each of your mean-machine-characters. On a 5+ they are wounded.

Yours
B
 
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
63
#18
No problem Disciple. You don't have a clue how much I enjoy this.

One other question regarding two powers.
When combining 'behind enemy scenes' and 'seduction'. Which power takes precedence? Does one first playes 'bes' or 'seduction? I don't see a problem when one has taken 'bes' only once. But when having multiple 'bes' it is possible to take out an enemy character. In that case it is important to know if 'seduction' comes first or second.

Yours
B
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
Staff member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
27,916
#19
Bauglir said:
No problem Disciple. You don't have a clue how much I enjoy this.
This sentence makes all the effort put it worthwhile. Thank you xD

One other question regarding two powers.
When combining 'behind enemy scenes' and 'seduction'. Which power takes precedence? Does one first playes 'bes' or 'seduction? I don't see a problem when one has taken 'bes' only once. But when having multiple 'bes' it is possible to take out an enemy character. In that case it is important to know if 'seduction' comes first or second.

Yours
B
I would say Behind Enemy Scenes should come first, however I don't like the idea of killing off characters before the games even starts.......hmm we may have to limit the power to one wound inflicted per model to stop it being abused.
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
28
#20
Hello there, it has been a long time since my last post.
A while ago, I did another play test with my beloved Lahmia against Orcs.

I'm not sure, but I think my army composition was something like this:

Characters:
Lady : extra level, extra dagger, poison, great bow, ethereal, Quicksilver and seduction.
Vampire: behind the scene, lord of the death, Helm, black periapt and extra dagger
Wight King: BSB, horse, lance and Banner of the Dead Legion
Swain : Butcher with bang stick and dispel scroll

Core:
3 bulls with belower
20 skeletons in heavy armor, full command and warbanner
11 skeletons, banner, champion with hellfire banner
5 dire wolves

Special:
6 black knight in full plate, hell knight, banner with Royal standard of Strigos

Rare:
6 Wraiths with Banshee

His army was something like this:
Orc Army:
Blackorc warboss on boar with sword that gives +1 attack and strength for every enemy character within 12'', enchanted Shield, 5+ Ward Save
Savage orc BSB on boar, ...
Savage Orc Shaman level 2 (scroll caddy)
Goblin Shaman level2 itty ring and scroll

2 blocks of Night Goblins with fanatics (3 each)
1 block Night Goblins without fanatics
20 Savage orc Big Uns
20 Black orcs
Hoppers, 2 spear chucka, Rock lobber
5 trolls, doom diver

Terain:
- Two hills in his deployment zone (one on near the middle of the table and one on his right)
- Two forest (one just in front of my deployment zone on my right and one on my left in the middle of the table)
- a church 5'' behind the forest on my right

Deployment:
(regretably this is not complete)
- I played refuse flank. Placed my blocks and the ogres near the center of my deployment zone, together with the dire wolves (to launch the fanatics on his site of the table)
On my right, I deployed the black knights and the wraiths.

- Since the centre of the field was completely open, he deployed his blocks of orcs there. The trolls with his general, a block of night goblins(with fanatics) and his hoppers were placed of bit of center to counter my wraiths and knights.
On other block of night goblins was used to cover his other flank.
His artillery was devided over both hills.

After deployment, I mentioned that I had two times 'behind the scene'.(I know I had not, but it was just to see his reaction :devil2: )
The result rather was devestating: his BSB dropped death and one of his casters took a wound as well. It was very intresting to see the
change of color in his face (from normal to white and red as a last stage) before he started complaining.
I agreed with him that taking this power multiple times has the potential to be over the top and showed him that I took this power only once.
After rerolling, no wounds showed up. My opponent started to look satisfied. That was the moment were my evil side took over again :devil2: .
After rolling 'Seduction', my vampire Lady decided that the artillery on the hill on his right (far away from the trolls), could need some extra motivation of the general.

In short:
Without the leadership of the general, his flank was history. (trolls stumbled forward due to stupidity and no magical attack were available to counter my wraiths.
My center had a hard time though (losing my bulls,wolves and a block of skeletons), but I gained enough time to prepare my main punch units to make a flank charge.
On that moment, the battle was over.

Lahmia Powers:
Behind the scene: good power, but we both agreed that it would be OP if it was taken multiple times in an army.
Seduction: I really, really love this power. On first sight, it is not that powerfull. On second sight however ... this could mess up your oppononts strategy.

All in all, this battle gave me the Lahmia feeling I had in the old days. (Perhaps even more xD)
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
28
#21
Hello DoN, can Swains join undead units or can they only join their retenue?

This evening, I'm going to field a Hag as swain with the Cauldron of Blood' upgrade (since it is a character upgrade and not a unit upgrade, it can be taken ;) ). While being completely in line with the army theme (as vampire Lady it is always handy to take allong a fine selection of the most exquisite blood ;). ), it can give a nice boost to the army: any friendly unit within 24'' can have the boost, so it looks like it that the boosting is not limited to the druchii. (jus some possibilities: skeletons with killing blow, grave guard with 2 attacks each or having a 5+ ward save,...:devil2: )
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
Staff member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
27,916
#23
:siren:Initial Playtesting Review:siren:

The below comments are a roundup of previous made comments. If a power or item is not noted below, it is either not been commented on, or it received positive comments. I have only noted the things which have been noted that need changing, or players have asked questions.

  • Low cost Bloodline powers are too high, meaning that heroes can generally only take one power.
  • Can Swains join Undead units, or only their entourage?
  • When a unit charges and has LOS to the Divine Beauty, does it first take its fear/terror test or the Divine Beauty test?
  • Does a unit which overruns and has LOS to Divine Beauty have to take the test?
  • And what with stubborn units, do they also suffer the -2 on their Ld?
  • One thing maybe. I find the wording of midnight dancer a bit too complicated. Wouldn’t it be more userfriendly when just stating that models in BtB with the vampire need to take the Ld-test. Cos now one needs to ask his opponent in every combatphase if s/he is going to attack the vampire or not.
  • When combining 'behind enemy scenes' and 'seduction'. Which power takes precedence? Does one first playes 'bes' or 'seduction? I don't see a problem when one has taken 'bes' only once. But when having multiple 'bes' it is possible to take out an enemy character. In that case it is important to know if 'seduction' comes first or second.
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
Staff member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
27,916
#24
My Thoughts

We should review the lower tier powers, try and get some which are around 25 pts so two can be taken on a hero.

I don’t think Swains should be able to join an Undead unit – only their entourage for simplicity’s sake, also to sop combos such as a DE sorceceress and the sacrificial dagger.

I would say Divine Beauty first as that will be the thing that has their attention. If they manage to pull themselves away then they take the other tests as normal. I would even go as far to say that yes, if they fail the Divine Beauty test the until would not be able to flee from terror as they are entranced by the vampire. A bit of a double edged sword then, but I see that as fair.

Overrun question: I would say as soon as they come into LOS then yes they have to take the test, and if they fail they cannot keep on overunning.

Stubborn units should still suffer the Lahmian power Ld modifiers.

Personally I think Midnight Dancer should remain as it is. If we stop enemies in BtB attacking I think it could be OP, or would need to cost more.

With Behind the Scenes, I think an enemy character should only be able to affected by this power once per battle (pass or fail). Otherwise some lucky roles could see the enemy general killed before the game even starts.

When used in conjunction with Seduction, I would say that Behind the Scenes should be used first.
 
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