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Mannerheim27

Moderator
True Blood
Sep 29, 2009
981
Minnesota
I’m not one to ever really quit anything, but it’s time that I come forward and do something I’ve thought about for a while. I’m officially done with Warhammer. With DoN’s permission, I’m still going to be around, but primarily for painting. I’m still into gaming and painting, but primarily for the hobby aspect and also for playing Warmachine.

I work with a pretty packed schedule and when I finally do get time to myself, I thoroughly enjoy painting and getting a good game in with friends. Warhammer used to be my weekend highlight and had been the focus of my weekends since 2005. However, due to the nature of people locally and other online communities, I’ve decided to pull the plug. I have no tolerance of childish and outright rude behavior.
The straw that broke the camel’s back was of two parts: sportsmanship in my local area and the lack of civility I’ve received from people when I paint commission/ do exchanges with them.

Sportmanship:
I’m not quite sure what it is about my local area, but from my observation, people are downright hostile. If you’re not “in” with the elite around here, there’s no place for you to play. Sound absurd? Well that’s a quote from a member in my area when I asked if I could get a pick-up game with him. Aside from trying to get games in, I’ve even offered to lend my services for tournaments, being run by “one of the best sportsman and best players of the area”. After a few email exchanges, I was to help photography and do articles on the event for the Unseek Lurker. However, as the event approached, numerous emails were not returned, but I prepared to go anyways with my camera. However, before I got there, a friend told me he had someone else doing the photography and reporting instead. I followed up with the organizer after this and still haven’t received any response. Nice.

Commissions/ exchanges:
Painting is what got me into the hobby in the first place. Some say I’m good, but to me, I’m still learning. I love painting for other people and I don’t hesitate to help people out. In an attempt to get into gaming circles here, I’ve offered to do some commission work. I did several jobs, and still have not been paid. I’ve had accounts with these people outstanding for an average of five months and am out hundreds dollars. I've filed disputes with these people and been very polite and accommodating, but it hasn't paid off. Aside from commissions, I’ve done bits and paints exchanges both in person and online to which I’ve never been compensated to the fulfillment of the agreed upon deals. I’m tired of being taken advantage of.

That’s the end of my rant, but if my appearance around here is spotty, that’s the mood I’m in. While some can say “grow some thick skin”, I can honestly say I deal with harsh people all the time during my job - I track businesses who commit tax fraud. A job is a job, but a hobby is something you’re supposed to love and enjoy.

I’m not having much fun anymore.

Jake
 

Duke Danse Macabre

The Duke
True Blood
Sep 16, 2010
3,696
Sunderland, United Kingdom
Sorry to hear it mate, Some people are just toss pots.
Piety your on the far side of the pond, the UK Scene still has its C.U.Next.Tuesdays but because of the numbers its easier to get games with decent crowds.

Happy to see your maintaining your love for painting though, hate to say it but your just far to nice for your own good by the sounds of things, its unfortunate people can no longer be took at their words worth.
Either way I wish you luck in the future.
 

Lynks

Lord of RAW
True Blood
Dec 29, 2010
2,215
Sydney
Sad that this has to happen. Perhaps things might be different in the future and you can get back to enjoying the hobby in the future. I do hope you hang around the forums though and continue showing us your wonderful hobby work.
 

Mannerheim27

Moderator
True Blood
Sep 29, 2009
981
Minnesota
Thanks guys :). I'm sticking around, but just as a painter now. I'm currently painting some presents for friends and my little cousin which you'll see here shortly.

I'm just not really sure what it is and why people get so arrogant and rude. Is it the competitive portion of the game or what? I'm enjoying and have enjoyed the warmachine crowd for a while (painting and now playing) as they seem incredibly relaxed in my area. I'm not to knock one over the other, but the game just seems a bit more player friendly and more about just having fun.

Who knows.
 

Lynks

Lord of RAW
True Blood
Dec 29, 2010
2,215
Sydney
Depends on your area really. The store I go to is well known for being significantly less competitive than the store a few suburbs over. It's not that we can't play well, we usually send some people over there for their tournaments and they go very well, it's just that we dont choose to play as dirty as can be. It's hard to pin down exactly what led it to being less competitive but I would certainly say that the arrogance/ rudeness stems from an overly competitive environment.
 

hairyjeff

Crypt Horror
May 10, 2011
579
Sorry to hear about this. It is a terrible shame, but too many people forget it's just a game. And incivility is pathetic selfishness.
 

TMS

Nostalgian
Staff member
True Blood
Nov 26, 2008
4,662
Sweden
This can happen whenever people has the chance to win at something, or otherwise distinguish themselves among their peers. GW's games are also more mainstream (in a niche hobby, lol) than other competitors' venues, which is why I think it has become so magnified in your area compared to the Warmachine players. Then there's also the view of the archetypical local store gamer with lacking social skills, which certainly can be found true - I know they converge at the store near me. Perhaps they just became too much for the more mellow guys to stick around, leaving an infested hierarchy of sillyness that perpetuates itself by drawing in people like the ones already in it while forcing others out of it. Sounds reasonable to me, at least. :thumbsdown:

I'd suggest playing your games among your friends only, assuming that you've got room for it. Glad to hear that you're still finding a venue of fun with the hobby. :)
 

Zephyr

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Mar 3, 2008
2,522
Rotterdam
I understand about rude and childishly competitive gamers(not normal competitive) and how it can ruin the fun for you. I'm lucky to have found a relaxed group of gamers but only after a major falling out with another one.

Really sorry to hear about your commissions and people not paying. Bunch of schmucks taking advantage of your good faith.

I think taking a step back and just painting for fun is exactly what you need.
 

Abbysal

Crypt Horror
Feb 16, 2010
565
Beijing
The fact of the matter is that those gamers that frequent a gaming store are normally the kings of geeks. I could never stand playing in a GW store. The only time I enjoyed a game was with an 11 year old kid cause he was in it for the fun, and strangely enough he was the most mature person in the store with an average age of about 20. It's the same here in China, the local Chinese that are in to the games are rich, snot nosed twats with zero social skills and bad hygiene. The only people I play Hammer with now are my close buds and the kids from my school at lunch time.

Is there no restaraunt, bar or gaming bar like a Magic the gathering hangout that you can start your own club up at?:zombie:
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,278
I wouldn't say 'grow a thicker skin', this is a hobby, we do it for fun, and if your local community is preventing you from having fun with the game, then it's time to set it aside. Even otherwise, tastes change as we get older, and there's nothing wrong with setting aside one game for something else if you've outgrown it.

Honestly, my own participation in the game is minimal these days as well, though not because of a problem with the local community (which is thankfully quite enjoyable in my area), but rather due to more important things intervening in my schedule, and due to my general dissatisfaction with the current rule set and GW's business practices. The older I get, the more I care about how a company handles itself, and the less I want to patronize one that handles itself so poorly.


As for your negative experiences in online business, that's a tougher thing. The simple fact is, without face to face interaction or some sort of overarching structure enforcing accountability, it's far too easy to be taken advantage of online. I do not recommend working by commission at all - I've heard too many stories of painters never getting paid if they ship the models before payment, and too many stories of customers never getting their models if payment is expected in advance. Selling painted models through ebay or something similar seems functional (again, there's an overarching structure enforcing accountability), if you're still interested in painting models just to paint them and then selling them to finance the next project - though respectable returns are rather far from guaranteed.
 

untitled_musketeer

Vampire Count
True Blood
Aug 9, 2010
1,426
Huddersfield
Sorry to hear of your troubles Jake, I must admit that I'm rather pleased you haven't given up the painting. All to often when people give up the hobby they give up everything. Then again, if gaming came out of your love for painting, it makes sense to chop off the cancerous bit and get back to what you love doing!

You can keep me company as one of the few members solely in the 'painting' corner.

As for commissions, I had a few that didn't pay. Suffice to say they didn't get their miniatures. It was a shame really considering that they had supplied them. As standard I always ask for a deposit prior to work commencing. This kinda gives me a little protection then should they not pay, especially if I have had to source the miniatures too.

Can't wait to see your presents, if they're anything like the rest of your stuff they'll look pretty sweet. As always pal, I'm here for friendly painting advice, support and criticisms.

Happy painting pal,

u_m
 

Grish

Liche
True Blood
Oct 11, 2007
5,319
Winnipeg, MB
Abbysal said:
The fact of the matter is that those gamers that frequent a gaming store are normally the kings of geeks. I could never stand playing in a GW store. It's the same here in China, the local Chinese that are in to the games are rich, snot nosed twats with zero social skills and bad hygiene.
+1. This has been my experience as well. When I do go down to the store, it is with friends with the intent to "school some nerds". There are nice, regular people there, but the kids that are there constantly are unwashed, overweight nerds snorting through their nose at how they're 'superior' to other players. It's pathetic, and I make sure to regularly tease and insult any such players I play against. A little humility and hygiene would go a long way.

We're playing with dolls as the miss would say. She won't even go down to the store with me because of the creepy guys eyeing her over. This community has pushed me away from the hobby as well, but I still enjoy playing with friends.

@Jake: If you like painting, and you like gaming, perhaps try some different games. Warmachine or Hordes or something else. Perhaps even switch to painted models and do some role playing; something completely different. But there's more than just warhammer out there.
 

Unanswered

Ghoul
Feb 8, 2011
120
California
It's so sad that it came down this way, i completely understand how you are feeling, these snobby elitist kids with their $1000 worth of unpainted models using any exploit they can to win and because of that they feel superior to the casual gamers. it's a damn shame that you cant find a quick pick up game on your days off. As for your decision to stick around and help with painting advice, it really is going to continue helping us out. One of the reasons i joined the forum in the first place was because of you Red, when i was still trying to get the hang of painting i was constantly looking on the painting advice that you and others had to offer, i kept coming back on the forum for help that eventually i figured i might as well join up and be part of the family.

Thanks for all the advice you have given Redarmy27, look forward to seeing you around the forum for some time to come
 

desfer

Necromancer
Jun 13, 2010
801
Attiki, Atthens
Well, it's sad to hear that you are not having fun anymore. As others said it's a hobby. You do it because you like it and makes you feel good. I hope that you'll continue visiting this forum and share your amazing work and painting tips with us. You are a great guy and painter. I have to thank you for your advice. It's a shame that some stupid ppl ruined all the fun for you :(
 

Mannerheim27

Moderator
True Blood
Sep 29, 2009
981
Minnesota
Thanks for the feedback guys. You're the reason why I like coming on here and drumming up some paint jobs!

Anyways, I'm wiped out after a very long day and am too beat to post some pictures.

I've found a new group to play with so I'll try them on Wednesday. I'll be bringing my Khador list into the fold. It's just a shame that people have to ruin a great game like Warhammer. It's a game!


Here's a sneak peak for you all:
Web%20Display_Gun%20Carriage_0.jpg


Have a good one!

Jake
 

Monkey's_Uncle

Black Knight
Sorry to hear your leaving the gaming side of stuff, we have a pretty good crowd where I live (which, as an agricultural area doesn't have oodles of money).

I've had some bad experiences with gamers before, but I just mainly play with a bunch of mates, we often are so laid back we couldn't give a stuff about how are armies are doing as we're busy telling our opponent about our latest conversion projects!

I haven't played warmachine, but a few of my mates have and it seems more relaxed.

Good luck for the future, and be sure to upload pics of your next projects (gotta' love them piccies!)

Cheers, Monkey

EDIT: Wahahahahahahaha over 100 zombies now!
 

SoulSeeker

Ghoul
Dec 2, 2010
114
Good luck with the new gaming group. I have played in many different settings - with my brother when I first started out, then joined a club, then tournaments, then another club, now I play against a good friend round at his house once a week (if we can juggle time well). Each has their own merits and disadvantages, playing in a relaxed group is my weapon of choice but it is not always easy to get to this stage.

One thing we have done to keep things fresh is to try new things. Warmachine you have plumped for, but there is so much else to explore, which is just as enjoyable as WHFB but at a fraction of the cost. We are currently enjoying 6mm WWII games, maybe collecting a small 1/72 force each in the future. The point is that it is a world away from WHFB but just as much fun.

Have fun in whatever you do. xD
 
Nov 6, 2009
143
Sorry to see you "hang-up" your dice.

I know what you are saying about the "in-crowd". This game has turned into some lame tournament fueled douche-bag festival. Which was not how it used to be. (Tournaments were rare back in the early days of this hobby.) It was not until the game was marketed like Magic, and the hobby aspect was left behind, and hence why you are getting stiffed for your paint work. ( These tournament- competitive gamer types, are bad for everybody. They view the models as game "chits" and thus will willing stiff,chide and belittle anyone who is a hobby maven.)

My advise is to first get mad and, then do something about it!
I suggest you form your own Warhammer club; one that is not so elitist.
Continue to write for the Unseen Lurker. Write editorials about the state of the game, and what can be done to improve the game.
And of course, Keep on painting. (Out of all things in these miniature hobby games, the painting aspect is where all the skill is.)
 
It is a shame when douches like the ones you described ruined the game for you. Those shenanigans with the tournament and the lack of payment for commissions just seem wrong .
Ive never actually encountered any of these stereotypical nerds who lack personal hygiene and social skills. That could be because I'm almost never in a gaming store and have a decent sized club with mature enough gamers.
 

Wolfrahm

Ghoul
Nov 7, 2011
189
Texas
Hopefully your new group will be great. I have a few friends who come to my house on the weekends. It is way more enjoyable to us. We got tired of the childness at our local store too. I don't paint for others anymore but teach my guys some tricks as well as them showing me some. Hope you are able to find some to keep up with Warhammer cause it keeps me going on Sundays and 40k on Mondays. Good luck to ya.
 

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