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Count Erick

Wight King
Dec 28, 2008
465
If they developed from Tech Priests I see no reason why not. The Cythor Fiends probably had warp-capable technology if they where able to fight against our Proto-Chiropterans effectively.
Hell, they could probably just capture and copy the Warp Drives and Gellar Fields from a captured imperial ship.

HOWEVER, the problem to me is not whether or not they have the technology to travel through the warp, but whether they would be able to navigate it.
Navigators of the Navis Nobilite are the only humans capable of guiding a ship through the warp, and they are by no means common...
The trouble would be how our Chiropterans would know where to go once they got into the warp.

One simple solution is that they simply have several Chiropteran Navigators, which would open up some possibilities for a Bloodline...
 

Morbraelle

Zombie
Jan 5, 2010
27
sounds like a great bloodline/perk option to me, makes them more open to some warp travel capabilities, and would work well for a less physically powerful but mentally potent (necrarch-ish) Chiro!
 

Count Erick

Wight King
Dec 28, 2008
465
What do you guys think about their possible vehicles?
If they derived their technology from Imperial roots its most likely their vehicles will be on treads, but I cant shake the feeling that skimmers would suit them better.
 

Morbraelle

Zombie
Jan 5, 2010
27
skimmers sound perfect, i think we may have to work with the concept to avoid them becoming too dark-eldar ish, maybe make them closed-topped and a little heavier, or some other special rules to make them more tailor-made to our new project. stealth fields maybe?
anyway, the idea of having some skimmers combined with the option for some heavy necro dreadnought-like constructs sounds like it could result in some awesome hammer n' anvil style tactics!
 

TMS

Nostalgian
Staff member
True Blood
Nov 26, 2008
4,662
Sweden
I can totally see a futuristic Black Coach hovering above the ground, grasping at the souls of the enemy and drawing them into its dark confines :)
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
I think we could have some skimmers, however they should be slow and ponderous things. Image a Leman Russ hovering instead of on treads. As for the smaller things, perhaps instead of bikes / equivalent, we could have a Cythor Fiend variant that can fly? I don't thing we should have fast light / agile skimmers.
 

beeblicon

Black Knight
Dec 27, 2009
355
Im totally seeing something very dark and sinister here

Something very H R geiger-esque
geiger1_t.jpg


I see very slow moving machines, like disciple of nagash, but heavily armored, not so much shooty, kinds that hover over top of you and grab you up..... like giant ominous cattle collectors

I see something very evil and dark that roams around the universe harvesting food

using life-forms as an energy source for thier machines, as well as a food source, how truly evil could it get

I see vehicles with pods containing bodies hooked up to them and stuff.. oooo creepy

33191-bigthumbnail.jpg


aecx.images_amazon.com_images_I_51PK22lN1YL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

For undeady type units, techno zombies? perhaps some mechanical thing that acts as a cerebral implant to bring dead back to fight for them? awww.lostateminor.com_wp_content_uploads_2008_02_christopher_conte4.jpg

Perhaps its the revenge of the cythor fiends? thier population nearly wiped out they turn to these evil means to sustain and conquer?

Edit!- Man so many ideas floating around in my head about this, cant sleep, really really wanna do a cythor fiends list now, if this doesnt turn into one i'll probably write one up myself
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Yeah I like the idea of the skimmers being ponderous and very heavily armoured. How about to version of a void shield / force field? They are normally retained for Titans so it would be unique I suppose. It would show they are advanced in some ways but their tech has diverged from what they had from the Imperium.

Perhaps they could have developed some kind of shielding technology? When they first landed they wouldn't have had much to create actual armour, so perhaps they nanobots could have been modified to create electromagnetic shielding against the Cythor Fiends? This could perhaps vary in effectiveness depending on the Chiro in question.

It could perhaps also be more effective against laser technology, as it would maybe be absorbed / refracted? Meaning more primitive guns such as orks are actually more effective.
 

Count Erick

Wight King
Dec 28, 2008
465
*Whew, FINALLY able to post*

The amount of energy required for void shields and force fields is gigantic, the only Imperial vehicles capable of a power output capable of sustaining them are titans and Leviathans/Capital Imperialus.

In response to beeblicon's post:
I think we should be very careful with some of that imagery and ideas, especially machines harvesting people for energy as that is EXACTLY what Necrons do.

Well, Ive let some of my creative juices flow, and I've come up with a few ideas for background:
The Chiropterans I feel would have some kind of centralized government. I see this working as a kind of assembly of the major members influential Households, Clans or family groupings coming together to govern Chiropteran society.
I think there would be quite a bit of political maneuvering and backstabbing going on, but not on the level we would see with say, the Skaven and the council of 13.

I've thought up the outline for four Clans which we can use as a basis for customization for Chiropteran Lords.
House Joro:
The names comes from a Japanese mythical creature called the Jorogumo which was a giant spider able to change its shape into a beautiful woman.
This would be the analogue to the Lhamians. Ya know all those sexy vampire action-girls you see in movies like Underworld? This is them. Picture leather-clad female assassins and warriors.
I also had the idea of a power for them: They can only take short ranged but powerful pistol weapons, but can fire them multiple times in the shooting phase. I would also see them having some type of stealth abilities/technology.

House Thracia:
The name comes from the Thracians, a warrior society. I see these guys as our Blood Dragon/Von Carstein analogue.

The two other houses I think would revolve around Technology and Psychic Capabilities.

However, I think there should be one more option for customization: Exiles and Outcasts
Exiles: Those Chiropterans who have committed crimes against their Household or failed in some way. These Chiropterans have been banished and now wonder the galaxy. Perhaps they take up a living as Pirates, hide among the masses of the Imperium or attempt to carve out their own empire by dominating some alien species.
I can see these guys as being extremely customizable, but not quite as powerful as another similarly equipped Chiropteran that's part of a household.

Outcasts: Those Chiropterans who's Nanobots have malfunctioned and created insane monstrosities. These Chiropterans infect those they feed with their dysfunctional Nanobots, turning them into the far weaker Zombies (which are then able to create other zombies).
I imagine the power for these guys would be to have +1 strength and toughness, as well as Rending, but they cant have any equipment and are subject to the Rage universal special rules.

One more thing: Familiars. I'll admit, I'm drawing from the Blade movies on this one, but it just seems like a good idea. What human in the 41st Millennium wouldn't want immortality and powers that rival or exceed those of the Space Marines?
the Chiropterans would probably have human agents of some kind: Spies, merchants under their employ or mercenary soldiers.
 

beeblicon

Black Knight
Dec 27, 2009
355
Well i had no clue, i never liked necrons, never bothered to read thier fluff

actually been out of 40k for a while, started near its beggining tho, have about 8000 points of blood angels, half of them the old one piece models :@

i'll do some quick research on them so that i dont suggest anything that arleady exists

aww there goes my idea of a tank with vats full of guys, i even drew some art up,a nd had thoughts of getting some clear plastic tube, cutting it into a few cylinders, putting guardsmen in them, filling them with green "water" and capping them and putting them on a vehicle, tubes extending from them to power it
 

Morbraelle

Zombie
Jan 5, 2010
27
Count Erick, you've done it again. superb ideas!

I was thinking, for the house joro concept, or perhaps for the entire bloodlines analogy, we could make it completely unisex, by that i mean the lahmian-esque characters wouldn't necessarily have to be lady Chiros, just svelte and leather-clad, and it would be possible to see a female Thracian decked in 2+or3+ powered armor with some terribly killy weapons! the only real effect of this would be that miniature customization options would be that much more creatively flexible!
Going back to an idea you mentioned ages ago(I believe the direct quote was "Would you be laughing about a vampire with a railgun?"lol!), perhaps there could be some option for a chiro lord who runs around with a nice beefy heavy weapon!

Thoughts on Dreadnought-esque vehicles, possibly in conjunction with the 'techy' chiros!:
In marine fluff, a great hero of many campaigns who is mortally wounded may be honorably incarcerated within the life-sustaining sarcophagus, which then can be installed into a dreadnought body. I'm thinking for our chiro's, any damage that they could sustain that did not completely pulverize them could eventually be healed, so eventually they would probably get bored of hanging out in a glass tube with a pipe up their bum. BUT! if they were able, by the technology of the nano's to literally 'fill into' a dreadnought like body and bond with it, kind of how chaos knights bond with their armor, but on a much more Uber scale, this could explain having a large, heavy, scary ChiroNought! this could even have the Venerable Dreadnought like option of being your HQ or Elite/heavy support.. probably would lose out on almost all warp/stealth capability, but be really scary and shooty nonetheless!
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
The amount of energy required for void shields and force fields is gigantic, the only Imperial vehicles capable of a power output capable of sustaining them are titans and Leviathans/Capital Imperialus.

I understand this – I was using this as a point of reference. Our heavy skimmers could have something similar on a smaller scale. Whilst the Imperium may not have managed to develop it, it is entirely possible the Chiro’s may have managed it, especially as they will already be specialised in making things small i.e nanobots. I think having some kind of shielding tech would be really interesting. It could be generated by the nanobots, and there could be different variations of the shielding. I do really like the idea of it being more effective against laser type weapons.

Thinking on it more, it could actually replace armour. What I mean is that that the effectiveness of the field that nanobots generate depends on how effective the hosts nanobots are. So for Chiro’s it could be very effective and adaptable. But for low level like zombie type creatures they can be almost non existent which would maybe translate into a 5/6+ save? Of course Cythor Fiends would need their own tech.

What about offensive weaponry? Any ideas on what those with nano’s would have or the Cythor Fiends?

Erick – I really like your house ideas, however I agree with Morbraelle that they shouldn’t be limited to gender. I think we should think up the main Houses, but leave some for players to make up their own as well.
 

Count Erick

Wight King
Dec 28, 2008
465
Going back to an idea you mentioned ages ago(I believe the direct quote was "Would you be laughing about a vampire with a railgun?"lol!), perhaps there could be some option for a chiro lord who runs around with a nice beefy heavy weapon!
I would really, really love to see that. :) (I'm NOT being sarcastic. One of the things that annoys me about 40K is that it doesn't seem to give you very many options in having an HQ oriented around shooting.)

I don't have a problem with making the houses Unisex, and I think the idea about the Chironaught is good.

What about offensive weaponry? Any ideas on what those with nano’s would have or the Cythor Fiends?
I thought up one thing:
Leech Blade (working title obviously) Basically a catch-all term for close quarters weapons designed to drain the target of their energy. The toughness of the target is useless as even the tiniest scratch can leathley drain it.
A power weapon that wounds on a 4+. For each model killed by a Chiropteran armed with a Leech Blade, roll a dice. On a 5+ they regenerate a wound (perhaps that should be changed to a 6 instead of 5+)

About the shielding, I think its a good idea, but we should be careful about its execution. Perhaps we should only make the Zombies version of it a cover save rather than an invulnerable save.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Oh yes - the nanobot save will be variable. Similar to how their are different types of save for nids as their armour gets thicker, the nanobot save will vary as well. I wouldn't want zombies running round with invulnerable saves any more than you would do xd

The shielding on the heavy skimmers could be based on similar principles then. So not so much a viod shield, but a more powerful nano-shield.

It seems we are making good progress xd

I agree on the heavy weapons for HQ. There is no excuse not to, as the Chiro's will have the enhanced strength to be able to handle them anyway.

I like the blade, but I think perhaps it should be part of their physiology? Again if anyone knows of the Borg out of Star Trek, they have inbuilt metal tubeules then can assimilate with. Perhaps this "catch all" weapon could refer to something like that?

What about ranged weaponry? Some kind of nanobot enhanced bullets etc would be interesting but I haven't given it much thought.

Any thoughts on non nano tech? The Cythor Fiends are meant to have potent ranged weaponry?

As for the Dreadnought type idea. I do like it, but I think as the user can merge more through the nanobots, they should be much more agile. Think Gundam Wing robots on a smaller scale.
 

beeblicon

Black Knight
Dec 27, 2009
355
Can i draw up some pictures of cythor fiends? theres nothing official out there right?

im imagining them in sleek battle armor, but i also kinda thing it would be cool if they could fly (and shoot) or wear thier armor and not be able to fly (still shoot, of course)
 

Count Erick

Wight King
Dec 28, 2008
465
The Cythor Fiends are described as being bat-like and able to fly, so yes they have wings

I like the blade, but I think perhaps it should be part of their physiology? Again if anyone knows of the Borg out of Star Trek, they have inbuilt metal tubeules then can assimilate with. Perhaps this "catch all" weapon could refer to something like that?
I don't see any reason why not...
Perhaps the weapon's form would vary from household to household?

What about ranged weaponry? Some kind of nanobot enhanced bullets etc would be interesting but I haven't given it much thought.
Hmm...I'm finding it hard to think up a weapon system that hasn't already been taken over by Necrons, Imperial or Eldar or Tyranids...
The first thing that popped into my head was an energy weapon that drained its target, but that reeks of Necron...
My other idea was perhaps a weapon that affected the targets sanity, make them go insane with fear or suicidally depressed...but that's fairly Dark Eldar~esque...

Any thoughts on non nano tech? The Cythor Fiends are meant to have potent ranged weaponry?
What about sonic weapons?

As for the Dreadnought type idea. I do like it, but I think as the user can merge more through the nanobots, they should be much more agile. Think Gundam Wing robots on a smaller scale
I'm thinking that we should, perhaps, take a look at some of the Warmachine Cryx Warjacks for possible Walkers.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
beeblicon said:
Can i draw up some pictures of cythor fiends? theres nothing official out there right?

im imagining them in sleek battle armor, but i also kinda thing it would be cool if they could fly (and shoot) or wear thier armor and not be able to fly (still shoot, of course)

Of course you could, though as Erick states they have wings.

Count Erick said:
I don't see any reason why not...
Perhaps the weapon's form would vary from household to household?

That would be a cool idea. Let's say the nanobots adapted the hosts "Leech" to best suit their method of warfare / lifestyle. This weapon should be part of them, and they can also use it to reproduce or create nanoslaves aka zombies.

Hmm...I'm finding it hard to think up a weapon system that hasn't already been taken over by Necrons, Imperial or Eldar or Tyranids...
The first thing that popped into my head was an energy weapon that drained its target, but that reeks of Necron...
My other idea was perhaps a weapon that affected the targets sanity, make them go insane with fear or suicidally depressed...but that's fairly Dark Eldar~esque...

Yeah this is where I am having issues as well. I would say this army should be more CC anyway, but we still need some decent weaponry. Perhaps the best way would be to think of how it would have evolved. So what kind of weapon would start off as Imperial prototype, and would be effective against the Cythor Fiends?

What about sonic weapons?

Perfect! I think this weapon should be a natural ability of the Cythor Fiend. As we discuss more and more I am seeing them more as downtrodden proud and bestial warriors, not as technology advanced as the Chiro's but potent all the same.
So perhaps they can naturally produce a powerful sonic blast that can pulverize armour (as per the fluff we have managed to gather), and the reason the Chiro's gained the advantage was that the nano's finally managed to adapt the their shielding to nullify the effect?

I'm thinking that we should, perhaps, take a look at some of the Warmachine Cryx Warjacks for possible Walkers.

I haven't really looked at them so I can't comment on that one.
 

beeblicon

Black Knight
Dec 27, 2009
355
Disciple of Nagash said:
Of course you could, though as Erick states they have wings.

Oh i knew that part, i was just meaning if you have some troopers decked out in armor, perhaps while that armor is on they loose the ability to fly?

Just keeps it fluffly and allows you to not have to have everything flying
 

beeblicon

Black Knight
Dec 27, 2009
355
Just throwing out a million ideas, feel free to ignore me

I dont really like any of the whole "fingers in the pie" imperial things, i mean, they do too much already, are involved in everything, is it really necessary to have them take another hand in thier own destruction by creating another enemy so on, so forth?

i dunno, i think it would be cool if the nanobot creation/houses/whatever were of the cythor fiends own creation

I kinda envision the ghoul worlds as being burnt out husks, or empty rocks, perhaps remnanents of a supernova or a stars destruction? again l ike people suggested maybey highly radioactive on the surface, and thats why they live deep underground?

High levels of radiation + them could be why they are such powerful creatures, that adapt and change very well to thier surroundings (maybey even having become immune, over time, to the surface radiation. After the first couple purges and cleanses of thier planets, when the imperials set foot on thier core planets and found them empty, it was, of course, because they were lying in wait. -of course you could also make them stealthy (natural or artificial camoflauging? being hidden but detecting through radar means could be NASSTYY)

If highly adaptable, perhaps theres quite a few distinct "species" or bloodlines that these fiends follow? The biggest and strongest of thier societies (thier patriarches or primes or whatever) being the pinnacles of thier adaptability to thier environments. These guys are large and in charge.

That could let you have bloodlines, and physically different units down the lines.

Nanobots? why not, i could actually see them using them, perhaps these also help witht he camoflague, help the primes controll the lessers.

Heres a quick rundown of some things we know

Cythor Fiends were a race of extraordinarily evil aliens who lived in a desolate region in the north eastern corner of the Segmentum Obscurus known as the Ghoul Stars. High Marshall Helbrecht of the Black Templars Space Marines led a crusade against them a few years prior to the Third War for Armageddon. The few surviving records of the crusade describe the Cythor Fiends as humanoid Bat-creatures with leathery wings attached to their arms, which were topped with a long, curved claw with which to eviscerate enemies. They had bulging ice-blue eyes and many sharp shard-like teeth sticking out of their leering jaws. They bred in vast numbers and had a preference for swarming the enemy with massive wave attacks. Little is known about the Cythor Fiends' society or way of life, but Imperial Intelligence suggests that their civilization was based on the principles of Warlordism and "Rule of the Shrewdest". Fierce warlords commanded millions of bloodthirsty warriors armed with spike-shooting carbines and their wing-talons. Helbrecht lead the crusade to their homeworlds, but once they arrived found them strangely empty...Codex Black Templars pg44, other references?

If we take into account thier vast breeding we could easilly throw in some fluff about selective breeding, if they are constantly breeding, and doing so selectively, it would also be easy to create differences between them (like dog breeding)

If you also look at my physiology of a fiend post theres lots of room for fluff on how they can advance quickly-- just like tyranids use dna to evolve perhaps these things can use that cortex thing i talk about to glean information from races, effectively stealing technology, technovamps!

How smart/tricky is that, imperials come, devastate some planets, bunch of imperials dying (of course along with expendable fiends) imperials get to the core planets, find them empty, leave, deep below the surface, the fiends, safely hidden away, start harvesting the imperial technology, producing it, and breeding more fiends to eventually extract revenge, fiends come back in another wave...an angry...angry wave

Long and short, theres high tech races, theres biological races, theres a mechanical race......why not a biomechanical race!


Edit--- God too many things flowing from my brain today, i will not be offended if you choose to disect these ideas up, and use some/none of them

on the chiropterans?

perhaps the fiends did need another kickstart to put them into contention as a force to be reckoned with
the chripterans perhaps, fleeing from imperial scrutiny chose the ghoul stars because they knew they were empty, and semi isolated, so they chose to set down upon these worlds, to continue furthering thier perverse technologies

enter the fiends, unknowing to the chiropterans of course, fiends are below, fiends attack, and feed upon the chiropterans, long story short, fiends start to gain some nanobots, start to like, grow in power, glean the tech, almost wipe chiropterans out, decide they need them to further thier tech, enter an arrangement

no i see the chiropterans as immortal techmarine types, being given all thier needs by the cythor fiends to continue thier long lives and technology
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Well this is going to boil down to personal preference, but I prefer the idea we currently have. I like the idea of the renegade tech-priests becoming the Chriro, having a war with the Cythor Fiends, and then eventually overcoming them. The Cythor’s to me, with their long claws, wings, fast breeding etc, do not strike to me as best representation of the vampires in 40K. Yes they have the bestial side down, but not the other aspects.

So I personally am saying no to that particular suggestion and think we should continue on the line we have been discussing, with the nanobot Chiros at the top, Cythor Fiends as shock troops, and then lesser nanobot controlled “undead”.
 

beeblicon

Black Knight
Dec 27, 2009
355
Yeah thats entirely cool, just figured i'd throw out a bunch of suggestions. Go with the original idea -- what you had before my rambling was great, only thing i didnt like about it was it just felt a little overdone with the imperium having a hand in everything - but its still good
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
I know what you mean about the Imperium, but bear in mind that the current day Chiro's have nothing to do with the imperium. They are as different as the eldar are now, with different physiology, values, tech etc.
 

Count Erick

Wight King
Dec 28, 2008
465
I'm going to quote something Morbraelle said on the Physiology thread to say something thats bothering me:

Perhaps we could use Epic Thagrosh as either the cythor fiend alpha-bat, or the Chiro equivalent of a strigoi.

The cryxian warjacks, warcasters, mechanithralls, heck, nine-tenths of the army looks just about perfect for our concepts!

Now, dont get me wrong, Warmachine's models are good, BUT I realy dont want to see this turn into Codex: Cryx.
Just something I wanted to get out in the air.
 

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