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Nahash useing the dark rider spell

Best charge damage and unit breaking ability.

  • 8 TK chariots 4 wide

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 9 B Knights 5 wide

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 7 B kights w/ -1 armor save and fc

    Votes: 2 66.7%
  • 6 necro knights w/ fc

    Votes: 1 33.3%

  • Total voters
    3
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#1
What would be your best charge damage for summoning units specifically with nagash using the lore of undeath (3x summon) and the spell Akar'aran - The Dark Riders 16+ ( summon 450 points worth of
Cavalry, Monstruous Cavalry and Chariot Units.)


The scenario I suggest is an enemy's unengaged unit is threatening a charge on your zombie mage bunker. On your turn you get off the dark rider spell and plop down your hammer unit behind or to the side of said unit to dissuade the enemy from that course. Now you have a choice of what to put down. What will do the most damage with the knowledge that you will charge next turn and it will probably be on an engaged enemy's rear flank or one that just turned to face the new bigger threat.

My opinion it would be 8 tk chariots 4 wide with a standard. (Automatic D6 S5 impact hits x4 units wide)

9 blood knights 3 or 5 wide is a scary thought
Another Blood knight option is
7 with the razor standard full comand *(add 1 knight for 1 counter)

6 Necropolis Knights W/ fc is an option too

What are your thoughts? Am I missing a stronger charge?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
183
#2
What would be your best charge damage for summoning units specifically with nagash using the lore of undeath (3x summon) and the spell Akar'aran - The Dark Riders 16+ ( summon 450 points worth of
Cavalry, Monstruous Cavalry and Chariot Units.)


The scenario I suggest is an enemy's unengaged unit is threatening a charge on your zombie mage bunker. On your turn you get off the dark rider spell and plop down your hammer unit behind or to the side of said unit to dissuade the enemy from that course. Now you have a choice of what to put down. What will do the most damage with the knowledge that you will charge next turn and it will probably be on an engaged enemy's rear flank or one that just turned to face the new bigger threat.

My opinion it would be 8 tk chariots 4 wide with a standard. (Automatic D6 S5 impact hits x4 units wide)

9 blood knights 3 or 5 wide is a scary thought
Another Blood knight option is
7 with the razor standard full comand *(add 1 knight for 1 counter)

6 Necropolis Knights W/ fc is an option too

What are your thoughts? Am I missing a stronger charge?
Hello!

During the End Times, Demian made a nice write-up on the Lore of Undeath.
You can read it here:
https://www.vampirecounts.net/threads/summoning-and-you-a-lore-guide.27449/#post-403533

According to him, the two best options for Nagash with this spell are:

- A Unit of 5-21 Black Knights, with upgrades. That is 14 Black Knights with all upgrades and Banner of the Barrows, or 15 Knights with barding/lances, Standard Bearer and Banner of the Barrows, etc.
- A Unit of 7 Blood Knights, with Musician, Standard bearer and Flag of Blood Keep. Or 9 Knights unupgraded, etc.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2017
Messages
636
#3
Eh, 8 TK chariots offer some huge impact, but knights (be them black or blood, as the ones already cited), grant also more combat resolution.
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Messages
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#4
I was doing some digging, blood knights are the more powerful unit however they don't have enough units to "disrupt" the enemy units rank bonus. All of the other choices can do this. So if you already have another 2+ rank unit to flank charge and/or you really need to cut through armor then necropolis knights are probably the best bet.

If you take blood kinights as I mentioned 7-8 fullcomand 5 wide and -1 armor piercing then you get 18-19 ws 5 s7 I5 attacks with 5 more mount ws 3 s 4 attacks.
(7 stregth plus flag negates a +2 armor save.)

Now 7-8 tk chariots 4 wide get 32-36 weak bow shots right out of the gate. Then the turn they charge 4-24 (avg 10) s5 automatic hits.
16 ws3 s4 i2 then 8 weaker horse hits. (Need a token for fc or you can go 7 models)

6 Necropolis knights w/ fc 6 wide (horde sized) you get the 37 S5 attacks. They offer 13 ws 4 s5 i3 killing blow and 18 ws 3 s 5 i3 poison attacks. Then 6 stomp attacks (auto hit s5 attacks)

Or you can go 3 wide for two ranks to cause disruption during your flank charge. (One token gets you another model.)

15 Black knights w/barding, lances, champion, and magical banner (specifically the war banner) is the most durable option especially with magical healing support.
20 un-upgraded /w fc gets you the most combat resolution. And it is still a 3+ amour save.

They are all toughnes 4, all listed options have a flag, and respectable armor saves. (Blood and black +2, necropolis 3+, chariots 4+)

The question is what are you attacking?
 
Last edited:
Joined
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Messages
6
#5
This is an old post that was done with all three types of casters. I took out everything but the generic caster so it would be easier for me to look at.

Ryze - The Grave Call
Basic Version, Regular Infantry
Generic Wizards:
(Cast 9+. A Lvl 1 wizard should use ~3 dice or 2 with a Hierotitan nearby. A lvl 2-4 should use use 2 dice for max efficiency)
A generic wizard can summon with 50pts:
- A Unit of 10 Skeleton Warriors with light armor (VC & TK) or 12 Skeleton Warriors without armor (TK).
* Spending 1 Counter, summon a Unit of 20 Zombies.
* Spending 1 Counter, summon a Unit of 10 Skeleton Archers.

----------------------------------------------------------

Mid Version, Normal infantry
Generic Wizards:
(Cast 14+, lvl 1 - 3 wizards should use 4 dice, even with a Hierotitan nearby. Lvl 4 wizards can risk 3 dice, but are safer with a Hierotitan nearby.)
A generic wizard can summon with 100pts:
- A Unit of 20 Skeleton Warriors.
- A unit of 33 Zombies.
- A unit of 16 Skeleton Archers.
- A Unit of 10 Crypt Ghouls.
* Spending 1 Counter, summon a Unit of 10 Tomb Guard without upgrades.
* Spending 1 Counter, summon a Unit of 10 Grave Guard without upgrades.


Buffed Version, Monstruous Infantry
Generic Wizards:
(Cast 16+, lvl 1-2 Wizards should only cast this with 4-5 dice and a Hierotitan support. Lvl 3-4 Wizards can use 4 dice but would be better off with Hierotitan support.)
A generic wizard can summon with 150pts:
- A Unit of 3 Ushabtis.
- A Unit of 3 Crypt Horrors. Spend 1 Raise the Dead counter to summon 4 Crypt Horrors.
- A Unit of 3 Vargheists with Vargoyle.
* Spending 1 Counter, summon a Unit of 2 Morghast Harbingers.


[IMG]https://www.vampirecounts.net/data/avatars/m/6/6672.jpg?1403957715[/IMG]
Demian
Vampire Count
Oct 7, 2014
#3

Razkhar - The Abyssal Swarm
Basic Version, War Beasts or Swarms
Generic Wizards:
(Cast 10+, Lvl 1-2 Wizards should use 3 dice for this spell. Lvl 3-4 Wizards can 2-dice it for better efficiency)
A generic wizard can summon 75pts:
- A Unit of 3 Nehekaran Vultures
* Spending a Counter, summon a Unit of 2 Tomb Swarms(?)
- A Unit of 9 Dire Wolves
- A Unit of 2 Bat Swarms
- A Unit of 4 Fell Bats. Spend 1 Raise the Dead counter to summon 5 Fell Bats
- A Unit of 1 Spirit Host. Spend 2 Raise the Dead counters to summon 2 Spirit Hosts.



---------------------------------------------------------------
Buffed Version, Monstruous Beasts
Generic Wizards:
(Cast 16+, lvl 1-2 Wizards should only cast this with 4-5 dice and a Hierotitan support. Lvl 3-4 Wizards can use 4 dice but would be better off with Hierotitan support.)
A generic wizard can summon with 150pts:
- A Unit of 1 Scorpion Golem (this Unit cannot be increased beyond 1 model, so this is what you'll get with a standard cast).
* Spending 2 Counters, summon a unit of 3 Sepulchral Stalkers.


Vampire Count

Oct 7, 2014
#4

Kandorak - The Harbinger
This spell should only be used by Lvl 3+ Wizards, as it has the highest casting value of all spells from Undeath, specially the buffed version.

Basic Version, a single Character.
Generic Wizards:
(Cast 10+, you should 2-dice it for better efficiency)
A generic wizard can summon 65pts:
- A Sepulchral Herald, with mundane upgrades, usually a great weapon or a flail. Spend a Raise the Dead counter to give him a Skeletal Steed.
- A Necrotect with 5pts magical item.
* Spending a Counter, summon a Tomb Priest
- An unupgraded Necromancer
- A Cairn Wraith.


[IMG]https://www.vampirecounts.net/data/avatars/m/6/6672.jpg?1403957715[/IMG]
Demian
Vampire Count
Oct 7, 2014
#5

Akar'aran - The Dark Riders
Since this is a spell that can change the game by summoning heavy cavalry in the Special / Rare slots of the Undead Legions, you save up your Raise the Dead counters for either this, or Kandorak's Monsters. Feel free to save as many counters here as you wish, in order to summon a very powerful Unit and wipe those who would oppose you!

Cavalry, Monstruous Cavalry and Chariot Units.
Generic Wizards:
(Cast 16+, lvl 1-2 Wizards should only cast this with 4-5 dice and a Hierotitan support. Lvl 3-4 Wizards can use 4 dice but would be better off with Hierotitan support.)
A generic wizard can summon with 150pts:
- A Unit of 5-12 Skeletal Riders.
- A Unit of 5-10 Skeletal Archer Riders(?) with 10pts left for upgrades.
* Spending 2 Counters, summon an unupgraded Unit of 3 War Chariots.
* Spending 5 Counters, summon an unupgraded Unit of 3 Necropolis Knights.
- A Corpse Cart with any upgrades available (since it says Chariots, that includes 1 chariot, of course!).
- A Unit of 5-7 Black Knights, with upgrades. 5 Black Knights with barding/lances and 20pts left for upgrades.
- A Unit of 5 Hexwraiths, but no points left for the Hellwraith.
* Spending 5 Counters, summon a unit of 4 Blood Knights, unupgraded but ready to kick some ass!
* Spending 5 Counters, summon a Black Coach... because Kandorak is not enough!! (since it says Chariots, that includes 1 chariot, of course! Need to confirm this!).
* Spending 7 Counters, summon a Mortis Engine (since it says Chariots, that includes 1 chariot, of course! Need to confirm this!).
 

Irisado

Ancient Vampire Lord
Staff member
True Blood
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
676
#6
Thank you for the information, however, as this topic is more than two years old, I'm going to lock it. If there are any new discussion points to be put forward in relation to this, please feel free to start a new topic.
 
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