• Roll-up! Roll-up! Come one and all the fantastic Turning the World to Darkness painting competition. Welcome to any skill level, you can find out more here.
  • It's time once again to ferret out those murderous vampires in a new VAU - Vampires Amongst Us. A cross between Cluedo and a roleplay, sometimes gory and often hilarious! Find out more here.

New 8th rule rumours....We're nerfed!!!

Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
103
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

The potion+accursed armour+that beast spell will give u 8,9 or 10 tougness, what more could u want when someone is trying to assassinate your general :)
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
1,549
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

Spook290 said:
The potion+accursed armour+that beast spell will give u 8,9 or 10 tougness, what more could u want when someone is trying to assassinate your general :)
WS 7? I7? :)
 

Danceman

The Devil in Pale Moonlight
True Blood
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
3,461
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

Personally I am way more interested in the 'permanent' items. I mean, there will be a truckload of new banners, weapons, armours, enchanted items, talismans and arcane items. Considering the change in combat(ie, initiative governs all!) vampires in itself are much more deadly. The ideal route seem to be to go offence rather than make your lord unnessecarily tough. Potion of Strength + SoMight + Red fury + Inf-hatred will inspire all kinds of hurt.

Initiative of our vampires + CR of Fear + other static CR and this probably will be the way we win combats I think.
 

Tal Rasha

Grave Guard
Joined
Jan 24, 2008
Messages
208
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

Disciple of Nagash said:
It looks like however we are not screwed when it comes to characters. In a 2000pt army we can still have a fully kitted up lord and 3 vamps if we wish (well the 3rd vamp might need to loose a magic item or power )
I have no idea what you are smoking, but it must be good, so pass it over! :lol:

In a 2000 point game, that leaves you with 500 points to spend on characters (25%). A fully decked out lord cost around 440. You could go cheaper, but at that cost, you have around 60 pts to spend on other characters. Yes, this means you are limited to 1 (one) vampire in a 2000 point game, and perhaps 1 (one) vampire and a cheap necromancer in a 2250. Kinda sucks.

The good news is that with power dice for magic being a random 2d6, and being able to add your caster levels to spells, one vampire lord may be able to handle the magic phase by himself. Only time will tell. It's not looking very promising though.
 

Danceman

The Devil in Pale Moonlight
True Blood
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
3,461
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

No, that is not how it works Tal Rasha.

25% in Lords and 25% in Heroes which adds up to 50% in characters. So the percentages changes are not as dramatic as we thought.
 

Tal Rasha

Grave Guard
Joined
Jan 24, 2008
Messages
208
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

Danceman said:
No, that is not how it works Tal Rasha.

25% in Lords and 25% in Heroes which adds up to 50% in characters. So the percentages changes are not as dramatic as we thought.
That's one rumor, yes. But the more prominant rumor is simply 25% characters, which is more believable, IMO. 25% Lords AND 25% Heroes is even worse than it is now!

I guess only time will tell. We are only speaking about rumors at this point, so we don't really know.
 
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
551
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

I still dislike that I won't be able to have a fully kitted zombie dragon lord at 2k, it would have been nice if it was 50% lords and heroes. Love the extra common magic items, maybe then dogs of war and kislev will be able to actually have decent heroes and lords.
I won't be using the potion type gear just because it's one use only, I prefer to be able to use the gear every turn (well, every turn where applicable of course)
Although the Hydra Blade sounds like it was insane, I hope there are some significant gear available. Hopefully then it will make it a tough choice deciding what gear to have, rather than having 'typical' combinations.
 

Danceman

The Devil in Pale Moonlight
True Blood
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
3,461
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

Tal Rasha said:
That's one rumor, yes. But the more prominant rumor is simply 25% characters, which is more believable, IMO. 25% Lords AND 25% Heroes is even worse than it is now!
No, it is apart of the bunch of rumours of which were confirmed.

Link; Here
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
Staff member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
27,916
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

The problem is that I can see enemy heroes being kitted up with these cheap one use items, and then sent in on a suicide mission to take out our general. It could make protecting our general a little bit more difficult.
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
1,549
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

Disciple of Nagash said:
The problem is that I can see enemy heroes being kitted up with these cheap one use items, and then sent in on a suicide mission to take out our general. It could make protecting our general a little bit more difficult.
We will be striking in I order remeber so there's a good chance we get a smash at them first :D

I hope there's some good CC weapons in there because we don't have very many (Our best swords for dealing dammage are common items :()
 
Joined
Sep 30, 2007
Messages
342
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

Seeing the Warseer topic, there also seems to be a new replacement for Miscasting, called ''loss of controll''. Which apparently could affect other wizards aswell. Plus some other quite decent magic changes, one which seems to be that you can cast stuff on different power levels, and the other seeming to be that can get a fluctuating amount of power dice per turn. Which will probably reduce the amount of magic I hear so much about.

Other part is allied forces. For Vamps I am not sure wether that fits or not ( Though it brings fun conversion options, Zombie Skaven Clanrats, a Wych Cult of half naked female vampires. ect ) complete with rules that seem to focus on alliances being vague/bad or on loose ends.

Both sound like decent fun to me.
 

Danceman

The Devil in Pale Moonlight
True Blood
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
3,461
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

I can't comment from who I've heard this of what I heard as I don't want him to get into trouble or anything but what I can comfortably state is;

We're wrong about the magic phase(and it looks good). Let's just the forbidden lore is going to be a popular choice...
There are infact 85 new magic items.
Terrain rules have changed for the better.

In short, the more I heard the more it made sense. Some armies though such as Ogres is going to get hurt once more(low I, low saves and rely on kills for CR... ouch). We have consider this new edition is a big change and as such this is inevitable. As for VC, we have no reason whatsoever to fear this new edition. If anything it has made our infantry more viable.

I am sure there will be more rumours proved to be false as someone 'heard' wrong or remembered the wrong rule or whatever.
 
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
103
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

is it just me or is 1 dice spamming going to get INSANE!
+4 to cast for magic level...+1 for master power...+1 for skull staff, +6 all up?
even with a hero level vamp with master power + lvl 2 is +3 to cast seems rather dodgy to me, and forgive me if ive misread what was written :tongue:
guess it may just depend on what the overall PD cap is
 

Danceman

The Devil in Pale Moonlight
True Blood
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
3,461
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

Spook290 said:
is it just me or is 1 dice spamming going to get INSANE!
Not how it works. Magic levels generate power dice exactly like they do today. A little hint, the 2D6 you roll in the magic phase isn't just for you.
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
1,549
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

Danceman said:
Not how it works. Magic levels generate power dice exactly like they do today. A little hint, the 2D6 you roll in the magic phase isn't just for you.
Is it be the highest roll is your pool and the lower your opponents DD pool?
 

Zephyr

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
2,523
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

I was freaking out at first but after reading the topic on WS, and praying these confirmed rumors are actually confirmed, I must say I rather like most of the changes.

I was never a big fan of US and I'm glad to see it gone. Fear tests at the start of every combat phase make me weep with joy. Okay units will no longer auto-break but being reduced to reduced to WS1 & A1 isn't fun at all (but it is for us). I finally feel that paying the extra points for models with a crap profile but with Fear is finally worth it.

So it seems that characters will actually be 50% of the army total instead of 25% only that it's evenly split between half Lords, half Heroes. I'm okay with that but I take it you can still only get Lord-choices in 1k+ armies? It would be obscene if they changed that...

Terrain rules sounds good so far, a lot more exciting but why oh why TOS?! it just doesn't work in 40K and i can see the same shouting-bouts coming up for Fantasy now too...

Magic phase doesn't sound to exciting but it's better than what we have which I really dislike. I like the randomness of the 2D6, fluff-wise it also makes great sense as the winds of magic or like a flowing ocean and not a static thing you can pluck out of the sky.

Overall the game will play much faster. Esepcially with all the added attacks in units! I love that you can get Stubborn if your only engaged to the front and you have more ranks than your opponent. It really makes sense.

So far I'm liking it better than this edition but the changes will probably upset a lot of folks as some army lists just won't be viable anymore.
 

Trevy the Great

Vampire Progenitor
True Blood
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
8,386
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

I'm with you all the way, Zephyr. I hate how more expensive units just cut through ranked infantry right now, and giving them a lot of staying power really helps differentiate the game from that... other one xD . Personally, I think the removal of auto-break is awesome, as it really levels the playing field between armies. I hated having to tell my opponent that they had just lost their uber killy unit because I'd done one more wound than they had, and I had one more unit of Skeletons into them as they did. It really mad a single bad roll able to destroy your entire army, which was really pretty devastating to many players in many games.
I like the new fluffiness of magic - it should be a lot more fickle, rather than the cold science it is right now. Having a random number of Power Dice will make it so that players will have to use their magic more creatively instead of simple allocating dice to spells almost before the game starts!
Is true Line of Sight a confirmed rule? If so, it's a pretty shoddy one. I've actually never had a problem with it in Warhammer 40,000 (when in doubt, 5+ Cover save! xD), but that is a very different game! There are a lot of differences between a skirmish game with individual models, whereas this is much different, with skirmisher models moving more individually in front of blocks of troops that make line of sight very confusing. Ah well.
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
Staff member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
27,916
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

I believed you roll 2D6 plus the wizard levels for your total PD, however there is a cap on the maximum. The highest of the two dice is how many DD your opponent gets.
 

Danceman

The Devil in Pale Moonlight
True Blood
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
3,461
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

I've not read/heard anything about a cap power dice cap. This is how it works;

Roll 2D6. For example, you get a 5 and 3. So for this magic phase you get 9 PD(6 from your mages and 3 from the roll) and your opponent get 5 dispell dice + the dispell dice of his own wizards.

I really got to hand it to GW here. They've managed to keep it fluffy AND balance the ease of generating power dice VS magic defence.
 
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
143
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

The big changes are the reliance upon Initiative for striking order, the percentage army composition and the stepping-up/2-ranks.

For the last four editions, it has been a while so I could be wrong, high initiative soldiers have been cheated. Models have been charged for this stat, initiative, but have not received any real benefit from it; so movement has been a proxy for initiative for almost 20 years. This is a good change for the game, not for the VC collection of low initiative soldiers, but good overall. (Wardancers will be a real mean unit in 8th)

The shift back to percentage army construction is another welcome change. The cookie cutter army will now be laid to rest, as the bubbling creativity of the players will make many varied army builds. The percentages will make the game scale better, low or high point games included.

The stepping-up/2-ranks rules eliminate the blow-out and the results will be an increase in actual models removed as casualties. (This edition is going to be a blood-bath. I suppose we should start thinking of new nick-names for this edition; I suggest: "Body-Count-Hammer" in the tradition of "Hero-Hammer".)
 
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
551
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

I prefer horde-hammer.
High Elf spears could have 5 ranks fighting potentially, and shooting in multiple ranks as well, sea guard would be awsome.
Army composition is gonna change massively, but I reckon DoC will still be the best.
As for Blood Knights, D3 impact hits and loads of high strength attacks on the charge will be useful if you wanna still wipe out the front ranks, but spear hordes will potentially be able to be a threat to cavalry through sheer weight of numbers.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
34
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

I kinda hate the new rules but likes some but it seems High elves will replace Vampires as a top army but I'll stick to vampires I am not one of those I play with a army when it's strong then ditch when they are not as strong anymore.
 
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
551
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

Yeah if ASF and higher initiative combined do mean re-rolls to hit then your average high elf could become a deadly foe. Plus, its more incentive to take Phoenix Guard rather than the more popular White Lions and Sword Masters.
Only thing I find disappointing is that the percentage limits mean I won't be able to use a dragon lord at 2k, whereas some armies could have 4 or 5 lord choices and something like 10 heroes. Not so much hero-hammer but instead going for quantity.
 

Abbysal

Crypt Horror
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
567
RE: New 8th rule rumurs....We're nerfed!!!

what are you on about?
Roll 2D6. For example, you get a 5 and 3. So for this magic phase you get 9 PD(6 from your mages and 3 from the roll)
where did you get that? on the link to warseer that everyone is looking at it is stated as

Quote from warseer.
Generating Power and Dispel Dice
Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spell casters. The amount of dice is decided by 2D6. The active player gets the total as power dice and the other player the highest throw as dispel dice (throw 3+5, = 8 PD and 5 DD). (confirmed)

So yes the opposing player gets the highest dice roll as power dice BUT you get the total of the roll =8 plus 1 for every wizard level in your army up to a total cap of 12 ( apparently ) or have I totally missed something??:zombie:
 
Top