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New Monster: Blood Golem

BloodbathMcGrath

The Butcher of New Liberty
Joined
Sep 9, 2012
Messages
493
#1
Hey all, I was just pitching around this idea in my head, maybe you all can help me with some details, and even use it in your own lists with friends if it sounds cool.

I'm thinking Blood Golem:
M: Random 2D6
WS: 4?
BS: -
S: 6 or 5
T: 5 or 6 (or even T 4)
W: 4*
I: 1
A: 2D6 or D6 + 2?
Ld: 4ish

Now my idea here is similar to Chaos Spawn, but wayyyyy more annoying. 50x50mm Monster, with some punch, but mostly existing to absorb an onslaught of attacks in this case. The S & T issue here is that this is a creature of massed together sinew, muscle and bone. I'm thinking his punch should be reliably strong and his toughness will be lacking a bit. But I could see him as a bloated organ pile- come to life, with less punch and just much tougher.

For special rules I was thinking he should be able to heal himself, or even have an innate healing ability after combats. Definitely paired with Regeneration 4+

Perhaps he could cast IoN on himself, but at D3(+1?) wounds only; as a bound spell power level 6?

Or every unsaved wound he deals in combat heals him on a 4+, 5+?

The main selling point for this guy would be that he could heal himself past his initial wound characteristic. :)

I guess there are two ways to run with it, either a nasty, killing muscular, jaggedly bony abomination; or a fatty, stinking pile of meat that lurches itself towards enemies and is seemingly endless when being hacked at.

And then as a final thought, maybe a single Vamp or necro could take a 75 (or 100) point ability to raise one of these mutants as a spell. -Something like a 20 to cast and also the caster must take one wound with no saves of any kind to offer blood to start the ritual.

So what do you all think? We have a lot of meat walls in our army already. But this one could function on flanks without magical support as a single model unit that nobody wants to get tied up with.
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
20
#2
BloodbathMcGrath said:
Hey all, I was just pitching around this idea in my head, maybe you all can help me with some details, and even use it in your own lists with friends if it sounds cool.

I'm thinking Blood Golem:
M: Random 2D6
WS: 4?
BS: -
S: 6 or 5
T: 5 or 6 (or even T 4)
W: 4*
I: 1
A: 2D6 or D6 + 2?
Ld: 4ish

Now my idea here is similar to Chaos Spawn, but wayyyyy more annoying. 50x50mm Monster, with some punch, but mostly existing to absorb an onslaught of attacks in this case. The S & T issue here is that this is a creature of massed together sinew, muscle and bone. I'm thinking his punch should be reliably strong and his toughness will be lacking a bit. But I could see him as a bloated organ pile- come to life, with less punch and just much tougher.

For special rules I was thinking he should be able to heal himself, or even have an innate healing ability after combats. Definitely paired with Regeneration 4+

Perhaps he could cast IoN on himself, but at D3(+1?) wounds only; as a bound spell power level 6?

Or every unsaved wound he deals in combat heals him on a 4+, 5+?

The main selling point for this guy would be that he could heal himself past his initial wound characteristic. :)

I guess there are two ways to run with it, either a nasty, killing muscular, jaggedly bony abomination; or a fatty, stinking pile of meat that lurches itself towards enemies and is seemingly endless when being hacked at.

And then as a final thought, maybe a single Vamp or necro could take a 75 (or 100) point ability to raise one of these mutants as a spell. -Something like a 20 to cast and also the caster must take one wound with no saves of any kind to offer blood to start the ritual.

So what do you all think? We have a lot of meat walls in our army already. But this one could function on flanks without magical support as a single model unit that nobody wants to get tied up with.
Sounds interesting, but I think having him heal beyond his starting wounds may be a bit too good (the Black Coach used to do that...much to the chagrin of my 6th ED opponents who'd then be unable to kill it). I'd say just give him the ability that every time he causes a wound, he heals a wound he lost earlier in the battle. Maybe have some sort of table as well, if he's at full wounds, so dealing wounds still helps him. Maybe something like:

1-3 wounds: Gains +1A
4-6: Gains +1S
7+: Gains +1T and attacks ignore armor saves.
Obviously, these would stack.

I think the big guy with bony protrusions sounds cool, so I'd give him S6 and T5.
 

BloodbathMcGrath

The Butcher of New Liberty
Joined
Sep 9, 2012
Messages
493
#3
Ah yes that's a good idea. So a regenerating, healing brute that can get some bonuses if he does well.
In that case I'd say his stats should be closer to maybe this?
M: Random 2d6
WS: 4
BS: -
S: 6
T: 5
W: 5
I: 1
A: D6 + 2
Ld: 4
Undead, Regeneration, Large Target, Terror.

Creature of Dark Forces: Can gain one additional wound from Invocation of Nehek. (2 instead of just 1)

Blood Begets Blood: Whenever the Blood Golem deals an unsaved wound in combat, roll a D6, on a 3+ it regains one wound. If it is already at full wounds, place a token next to it. Then regard the following table (note these effects are cumulative):
Tokens:
1-2: +1 T
3-4: +1 S
5-6: +2 A
7+: All attacks in combat Ignore Armour Saves (Including Thunder Stomp)
Whenever the Blood Golem takes an unsaved wound, remove a token from it as well if it has any.

-200 Points-

Upgrades-

Tainted Flesh- 20 pts: Whenever the Blood Golem suffers an unsaved wound in combat, the causing unit immediately takes a Strength 4 hit as per shooting.

Unholy Conduit- 40 pts: At the beginning of your magic Phase you may have the Blood Golem sacrifice D3 wounds with no saves of any kind. If you do so, add 1 Power Dice to your power pool.

Self Awareness- 50 pts: The Blood Golem gains Eternal Hatred as per the Strigoi Ghoul King rules.
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
51
#4
I think the chart makes it a bit more complicated than needed. Maybe just have its attacks be D6 + remaining wounds instead of the D6+2 (maybe give it 6 wounds to start with also)

The upgrades don't really seem to fit too much with what the monster is about - except for Tainted Flesh, but that seems pretty undercosted if combined with the 3+ wound regain.

Maybe increase Tainted Flesh to around 50 points, drop the other 2 upgrades and give it something like a breath weapon upgrade, and some kind of explosion upgrade on death (like our terrorgiest)

Creature of Dark Forces seems unessessary - he's going to be making wounds back like a maniac anyway.

I'd be putting his point cost (assuming my changes) closer to around 260.. considering in his current state he'll wreck entire units in a few turns, and has 360 charge arc.
 

BloodbathMcGrath

The Butcher of New Liberty
Joined
Sep 9, 2012
Messages
493
#5
*Admittedly he does seem undercosted. I would maybe put a 250 point pricetag on him.
The tainted flesh only produces one S4 hit, not really anything to write home about, so I think 20 pts doesn't seem undercosted.
*Scratch creature of dark forces, you're right -he heals enough as is.

The other upgrades are kind of a variety idea: The Unholy Conduit is a Blood Magic take, in that he is woven of magic, and can be disassembled for its master to reclaim that magic. And the Self-Awareness I thought explains itself; a hideously deformed monster that knows what it is? It seems fitting it should hate the world more than anything.

I was thinking an exploding upgrade, like 30 pts- 2D6 S1(or 2) hits upon death to all units in base contact.
Possibly breath weapon similar to zombie dragons -not too strong, but can be semi-useful.

*I like the table idea, but maybe each wound he suffers removes 2 or 3 tokens instead of 1. That way he can't regain them as fast as he loses them. Plus with the token idea, it's an easy reference to remember what upgrades he has (unlike WoC for example, with Nurgle Lore Attribute and Eye of the Gods, you have to make notes of what they gained...)

Also I was thinking of dropping his WS from 4 to 3 and his S from 6 to 5.
That should lower his damage output by a considerable amount and, as such lower his ability to self-heal.

Thoughts?
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
51
#6
yeah lowering his S and WS is probably a good idea.

the tainted flesh is probably well costed assuming that it doesn't combo with him healing wounds. If it does, then at the current points cost it'd always be an auto-include (cause it would effectively make him invunerable to most infantry). Also, is tainted flesh counting towards combat res?

Do you expect Thunderstomp to be healing wounds also??

Maybe it's worth making him flamable so at least he has a hard counter? At the moment there's not a lot he can't take on. Every rock needs its paper right?

The table is a cool idea.. i guess i'm just used to only really having to deal with tables for support units (like mortis engines, coven thrones).. when we have 3 units in our army that deal with tables it just seems to ad more madness to the system. I do agree he should be stronger & weaker based on his remaining wounds, but something more easily rememberable might be a better option. Up to you. Personally i'd just have either his attacks or strength (or both) values based on his remaining wounds. up to you though.

You could start him at 5W, 5T. Have him allow to increase his wounds beyond starting value with ION (up to 10??), and have his A and S equal whatever his current wound count is??
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
51
#7
Here's my version of the big fella:

-240 Points-
M: 3d6
WS: 3
BS: 0
S: special
T: 5
W: 5
I: 2
A: special
Ld: 4
Undead, Regeneration, Large Target, Terror.

Blood Begets Blood: Whenever the Blood Golem deals an unsaved wound in combat (excluding wounds from thunderstomp), roll a D6, on a 3+ it regains one wound. In addition, if the Blood Golem is at full wounds and has ION cast upon it, it gains +1 wound on its profile (to a maximum of 10)

Creature of Dark Forces: The blood golems Attack and Strength value are equal to its current remaining wounds.

Shackled: The blood golem is a primal and crazed creature, intent on slaughter. At the beginning of the game nominate one of your Wizards to be its "Shackler". So long as this creature is within 15" of its shackler all is good. If outside of this bubble, the blood golem rerolls both to hit and wound in combat, but has its movement direction determined by the scatter dice (it will stop 1" away from impassable terrain and allied units).

Upgrades-

Tainted Flesh - 30 pts: Whenever the Blood Golem suffers an unsaved wound in combat, the causing unit immediately takes a Strength 4 hit as per shooting. These wounds do not count towards combat resolution or trigger Blood Begets Blood.

Stream of Blood - 30 pts: Strength 2 Breath Weapon. When fired, the blood golem takes one wound. Any unit hit suffers from -2Ld and -1WS until the start of your nect turn.

Explosion of Blood - 60 pts: If the blood golum is killed in combat (or crumbled), any unit in base contact (friend or foe) suffer 2D6 S2 hits, and have their movement halved in their next movement phase.
 

Uziel

Vargheist
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
689
#8
Bloodbathmcgrath & Wallisface:

An interesting Diablo-ish unit idea there. :)

I like a lot of what you have done, but I have some hopefully helpful constructive criticism:

-Shackled, 4th sentence. Should probably have re-roll "Successful" to hit and to wound rolls there.

-3D6 movement might be a bit high, but that is my opinion though. I'd suggest Random Movement 2d6 special rule, then grant it the option to roll an extra die and pick the two you want if within X" of the "Shackler" at the beginning of the turn.

-"Tainted Flesh" looks good, but I don't see why any wounds gained from it wont affect CR.. I think it should.

-"Stream of Blood" is perhaps a bit too good, and the sole reason I'm saying so, is that breath weapons can also be used in close combat.. To get an an automatic -2 to LD and -1 to WS here is a bit harsh, in addition to the normal damage etc. Particularly -2 to LD, which nearly equals a Doom and Darkness spell on its own. I suggest a LD test here, to prevent this becoming too powerful.

-"Explosion of Blood" is a very expensive ability for something you only get to use IF the golem is destroyed... Very overpriced, even though I like the fact that you seem to err on the side of caution.

-I think 240 points is a bit high, or at least that is my initial thought on it. The main reason for this is that it doesn't take much to drop it down to 3-4 Wounds, and then it becomes pretty lousy, until you can get it back up again to 5, and if you drop below 3, you almost certainly have to have a wizard with IoN nearby to get him going again..


Overall though, I like the unit, and I think you have some good ideas. :)
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
51
#9
thanks for the feedback Uziel.

Yeah missed that typo in the "Shackled" ruling.. my bad

I put 3D6 for movement just due to wanting to have it moving a bit faster... 2D6 is only going to average 7" movement which seems a little slow for such an aggressive fellow. You're probably right that it should be the 2 highest from 3D6.

Yeah i guess it doesn't matter too much if tainted flesh counts towards CR.. i guess I was more concerned about making sure it can't regen wounds, and went overboard.

Not sure I agree with you on Stream of blood.. sure it is a little dangerous but breath weapons are one use only, and it is 40 points on top of taking the beastie. maybe I oould just drop the strnegth of it to 1, essentially meaning all it will ever really do damage wise is drop LD and WS for a turn?? Do you think it needs a point hike?

Kept the explosion upgrade pointy just due to the fact that it effectively takes whatever unit killed it out of being able to do much of anything in its next movememt phase. Makes what is already a big roadblock into a more annoying one. Perhaps it should be closer to 35-40 points??

I don't think the 240 is too overpriced. It initially fights a lot like a vargulf except is more manuverable. Sure if it drops a few wounds its going to be in trouble, but it could be increased in wounds pretty easily - and with 2-3 wizards spamming ION will be at 10 wounds in no time.. 10 strength 10 attacks will be mental!
 

Uziel

Vargheist
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
689
#10
Missed the fact that it could go beyond starting number of wounds here.. I apologize. That changes things a bit though..

I'd consider making Thunderstomp also help with regaining wounds, but then reduce the chance of actually doing so to 5+ or 6+ for all attacks.
 

BloodbathMcGrath

The Butcher of New Liberty
Joined
Sep 9, 2012
Messages
493
#11
Thanks Wallis and Uziel for your comments.
The problem with linking this guy to IoN is that then he ceases to be a monster that can navigate flanks.
Being buffable and having IoN increasing his wounds and consequently his S and Atks is powerful -but without babysitters, he's a sitting duck. A GW wielding unit with flaming banner turns him into puddles and then he can barely defend himself after receiving 1-2 wounds -if he survives the attacks at all.

Plus if he gets softened from missile fire, he won't be ready for a fight really at all. A couple magic missiles or arrow volleys drops him 1 or 2 wounds, now he's at S4-3 and 4-3A. At this point he's a 240 point liability. No IoN and he'll get chopped up by almost anything in combat at that point. On the flip side, a few IoN castings and he is already a monster: S7 7W & 7A. From just two castings he is already at a point where he will dominate combats.

The way I see my build is that his attacks will be varied, but on a good day or against the right match ups he will become stronger, but when he takes wounds he will lose his buffs accordingly. Although I don't know which way would make him more playable. I kind of dislike the idea of him being babysitted or growing uncontrollably strong from IoN. Although I like your additional special upgrades, as well as the ones I was thinking of, he could be a monster with lots of varied upgrades thus adding to his versatility.

Basically the way I see him, he replaces the Varghulf's niche, but for more points. Although he is stronger out of the box, and can be upgraded, and also strengthened in-game. The way you are writing him replaces crypt horrors (In my opinion) with smaller frontage, but less wounds for the points. He can hold his own, but thrives when he gets babysat, ESPECIALLY by IoN.

Now in the spirit of both ideas, I did initially have two concepts of the Blood Golem: a bony, brutish flanker and a grotesque, corpulent congregation of corpses. They both have their differences; one more free-standing, one a nasty tarpit that nobody dares charge :perv: So, I present the first draft of both renditions :)

Blood Golem:
M: Random 2d6
WS: 4
BS: -
S: 6
T: 5
W: 5
I: 4
A: D6 + 2
Ld: 4
Undead, Regeneration, Large Target, Terror.

Blood Begets Blood: Whenever the Blood Golem deals an unsaved wound in combat (Excluding Thunderstomps and Special attacks), roll a D6, on a 3+ it regains one wound. If it is already at full wounds, place a token next to it. Then regard the following table (note these effects are cumulative):
Tokens:
1-2: +1 T
3-4: +1 S
5-6: +2 A
7+: +1 WS +1 I
Whenever the Blood Golem takes an unsaved wound, remove 2 tokens from it as well if it has any.

-250 Points-

-Upgrades-

Tainted Flesh- 20 pts: Whenever the Blood Golem suffers an unsaved wound in combat, the causing unit immediately takes a Strength 4 hit as per shooting. Wounds caused in this way count towards Combat Result.

Unholy Conduit- 40 pts: At the beginning of your magic Phase you may have the Blood Golem sacrifice D3 wounds with no saves of any kind. If you do so, add 1 Power Dice to your power pool.

Self Awareness- 50 pts: The Blood Golem gains Eternal Hatred as per the Strigoi Ghoul King rules.

Blinding Ichor- 40 pts: Breath Weapon: Strength 1. Units hit by Blinding Ichor suffer -1 to hit in shooting and close combat until the start of the controller's next turn.

Corpulent Horror:
M: 4
WS: 3
BS: -
S: 4
T: *Special
W: 6*
I: 1
A: 2D6
Ld: 4
Undead, Regeneration, Large Target, Terror.

Eager Cadavers: The Corpulent Horror may be healed beyond its starting point.

Wall of Corpses: The Corpulent Horror's toughness is equal to its standing wounds.

-250 pts-

-Upgrades-

Putrid Flesh- 20 pts: the Corpulent Horror gains Poisoned Attacks.

Tainted Flesh- 20 pts: Whenever the Corpulent Horror suffers an unsaved wound in combat, the causing unit immediately takes a Strength 4 hit as per shooting. Wounds caused in this way count towards Combat Result.

Unholy Conduit- 40 pts: At the beginning of your magic Phase you may have the Corpulent Horror sacrifice D3 wounds with no saves of any kind. If you do so, add 1 Power Dice to your power pool.

Flesh of Fallen Dragons- 50 pts: The Corpulent Horror gains a 5+ Ward save against Flaming Attacks, and also gains +1 Strength.


Thoughts? I know I veered off your formula Wallis, but I thought maybe this is a good adaptation, idk if you agree with it but I wanted to take your idea into form as well :)
 
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
98
#12
Its funny I was thinking of the same thing. Considering how in the fluff we are told that necromancers take dead carcasses and put them together, its kinda sad that GW haven't created a kind of zombie mishmash monster.

I like what is written so far, was thinking of contributing my own upgrade idea.

Wooden Construction: +1 T and gains the flammable rule.

(in the zombie fluff it mentions necromancers using wood and stuff, could use the corpse cart frame as "ribs" ;) )

Heart of Darkness: Becomes a lvl 1 wizard that only knows Invocation.

Putrid slime: Gains poisoned attacks and a S2 breath weapon which is poisoned.

Not sure if they'd help, or the points cost.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2011
Messages
11
#13
I agree with BloodbathMcGrath. To keep him shackled to a caster will prevent him from acting as a flanking engine of destruction. I think his Int and WS are to high though. Most large targets and monsters are slower than the average human/model. Once he gets into combat it will not take long to start building Blood Tokens.

The Corpulent Horror can be the ultimate tarpit.

What base sizes are they going to be? I see the Blood Golem as the standard monster type base (50x50) and Corpulent Horror being the larger Terrorgeist base.

Blood Golem:

-250 Points-

M: Random 2d6
WS: 3
BS: -
S: 5
T: 5
W: 5
I: 2
A: D6 + 2
Ld: 4
Undead, Regeneration, Large Target, Terror.

Blood Begets Blood: Whenever the Blood Golem deals an unsaved wound in combat (Excluding Thunderstomps and Special attacks), roll a D6, on a 3+ it regains one wound. If it is already at full wounds, place a token next to it. Then regard the following table (note these effects are cumulative):

Tokens:
1-2: +1 T
3-4: +1 S
5-6: +2 A
7+: +1 WS +1 I
Whenever the Blood Golem takes an unsaved wound, remove D3 tokens from it as well.

-Upgrades-

Tainted Flesh- 20 pts: Whenever the Blood Golem suffers an unsaved wound in combat, the causing unit immediately takes a Strength 4 hit as per shooting. Wounds caused in this way count towards Combat Result.

Unholy Strength- 15 pts: The Blood Golem has +1 Strength

Self Awareness- 50 pts: The Blood Golem gains Eternal Hatred as per the Strigoi Ghoul King rules.

Blinding Ichor- 40 pts: Breath Weapon: Strength 1. Units hit by Blinding Ichor suffer -1 to hit in shooting and close combat until the start of the controller's next turn.

Corpulent Horror:

-250 pts-

M: 4
WS: 3
BS: -
S: 4
T: *Special
W: 6*
I: 1
A: 2D6
Ld: 4
Undead, Regeneration, Large Target, Terror.

Eager Cadavers: The Corpulent Horror may be healed beyond its starting point and gains D3 wounds per casting of IoN.

Wall of Corpses: The Corpulent Horror's toughness is equal to its standing wounds.


-Upgrades-

Putrid Flesh- 20 pts: the Corpulent Horror gains Poisoned Attacks.

Tainted Flesh- 20 pts: Whenever the Corpulent Horror suffers an unsaved wound in combat, the causing unit immediately takes a Strength 4 hit as per shooting. Wounds caused in this way count towards Combat Result.

Many Limbed Horror- 20 pts: A Corpulent Horror with this upgrade has 4D6 attacks each round of combat

Flesh of Fallen Dragons- 50 pts: The Corpulent Horror gains a 5+ Ward save against Flaming Attacks, and also gains +1 Strength.
 

BloodbathMcGrath

The Butcher of New Liberty
Joined
Sep 9, 2012
Messages
493
#14
This thread makes me so happy.... I kinda want to build these guys now to seal the deal.

Kazar, I had a few more tweaks to add to your extras as well as my original formula.
Blood golem:
-Should probably be 3d6 pick 2 for movement.
-Agreed- Int 4 is too high Int 2 seems about right, that being said WS 4 is okay for a combat monster I think (ie, dragons, chimera).
-Token chart maybe 5-6 = +1 WS +1 Int and 7+ = +2 attacks (probably the scariest upgrade).
-S6 seems best for what he is supposed to be capable of.
-D6+2 attacks might be too unreliable. But then again he can do alot of damage when adding a T. Stomp. Plus if things go well and you rolled a 6 for both thats 14 attacks. But a terribad roll or two only nets 4. I was thinking maybe a solid 5 attacks and call it a day :) cause then 7 is scary.
-50x50 base is perfect.
-Unholy strength might be too strong. Maybe armor piercing instead for 20-30 pts. Although +1 strength would make him an awesome monster slayer for about 40-50 pts.

*EDIT* forgot corpulent horror.
-D3 wounds gained from IoN is way too crazy. Every casting already gives him 1 + another from lore attribute. Mind you these are perma wounds and grant +1 T.
-I was thinking chariot base.
-Many limbed horror is devious. But could be closer to 3d6 attacks for about 40-50 pts.
-Maybe also an impact hits upgrade. Lurching Mass: 30 pts grants D6 impact hits.
 
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