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Not all Vampires are evil (Or are they?)

Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
14
#1
Hello.
I’m wondering what the forum’s opinion on this is.
It seems to me that before in the old army books Vampires were not all Evil (with an uppercase E) as they are nowadays but it was largely dependent on the individual vampire. (Of course evil vampires still existed) In the most recent army book for 8th Ed I don’t think it ever alludes to any vampire being anything other than pure evil.

I was trying to find some evidence to prove that this wasn't just my own headcanon and there's a certain story I keep coming back to -
I've been searching for it for a good while now and I previously read it on what I think was the GW website years and years ago. Long story short it was about a Vampire who had kidnapped a human and got him to tell stories/sing/play instruments in his lair. The Vampire did this due to his loneliness and afterwards let the human go unharmed as thanks.Does anyone know where to find this? Or a name for it?

On a related note what about the Vampires in your armies? Do you consider your force to be as evil as the Von Carstiens in the lore?
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
True Blood
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
1,315
#2
I guess it depends on the definition you are using for "evil." Do they become evil once they become vampires? or by their actions and intentions? Does a vampire think there is a moral obligation to not eat its prey simply because he used to be one of them? Take the varghulf for example. It used to be an aware vampire that restrained from feeding and became a blood-thirsty animal seemingly incapable of self control. So would it be better for a vampire to not feed and then become an insatiable killing machine? or would it be better to have a vampire that feeds on humans but doesn't indulge (becoming a vargheist)? The option to kill himself simply to not be a threat would rest solely on the vampire and human opinions would not matter because they would not be impartial, and could not be considered evil or good. I think vampires are considered evil in the eyes of humans, but humans have a pretty mirky standard. In the Warhammer world, I think that humans think anyone with more power than them are considered evil, often with no legitimate reason and even more often ignoring their own hypocrisy.

So to answer your question, no, I don't think vampires are inherently evil and I don't consider the vampires in Warhammer to be. My army is an isolationist army. They just want to be left alone but everyone attacks out of fear or greed.

Now Nagash on the other hand (not a vampire) is evil by many standards, but I'm ok with that. He worked really hard to get where he is.
 

MasterSpark

Nostalgian
Staff member
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Joined
Nov 26, 2008
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4,679
#3
I don't recognize the story you're talking about, but I echo the sentiments and agree with Alabaster. Power corrupts but it'll be up to the individual what they choose to do with it, whoever they may be.

Edit: You should also remember that Warhammer is a violent world. The army books are focused on the armies that do battle against each other, and so the vampires we get to read about are the warlike and particularly dangerous ones. Those who lived in peace wouldn't really be relevant in the context.
 
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MasterSpark

Nostalgian
Staff member
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Nov 26, 2008
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4,679
#5
We have both Jerek von Carstein and Genevieve to show that that's not always the case, or at least that they don't all turn into monsters.
 

Leithel

Grave Guard
Joined
Jun 3, 2015
Messages
286
#6
Genevieve Undead, man I remember that book, I loved it when I was a kid and it's one of the reasons I got into vampires when I came back to the game. I'm not sure what the book you're referencing is though, sorry.

The older fluff clearly supports that they are NOT all evil (though I'm tempted to get into the discussion about what is evil, but I'll just view it from a human's perspective.

Me personally? I am making my army as evil as razor blades in your soap because that's what I really want it to be. But my army doesn't think it's evil, it think it's bringing peace to the world.... through death.
 
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
14
#7
Yeah I can't seem to find any trace of the story after continued searchings, thanks for thinking back for me though! :)
Gona continue looking as it's stayed with me so long I feel like I should have a copy of it at least!

Personally my Vampire Counts force is not at all evil, glad the end times allowed me to fight against chaos at least!

- Edit just spent the last hour on the GW archive looking through every year possible for short stories etc. Can't find the one I'm looking for. Also tried BL and even trawling through the list of all short stories from wikipedia!
I can't just be making this up can I! :O
 
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Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Messages
39
#8
I remember the story - I think it was in an old issue of inferno. If it's the same one I am thinking of heading painted a portrait of her and was rewarded with long life. I am re-reading them at the moment. If I come across it is will let you know.

I also remember a short story in one of the vampire counts army books (6th I think) about a blood dragon who bested a knight and let him.live saying train hard and then when you are ready come back and find me.

Perhaps vampires are just a little more black and white. Personally I love Vladimir von Carstein fighting against chaos in the EoTs.
 
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
14
#9
I remember the story - I think it was in an old issue of inferno. If it's the same one I am thinking of heading painted a portrait of her and was rewarded with long life. I am re-reading them at the moment. If I come across it is will let you know.

I also remember a short story in one of the vampire counts army books (6th I think) about a blood dragon who bested a knight and let him.live saying train hard and then when you are ready come back and find me.

Perhaps vampires are just a little more black and white. Personally I love Vladimir von Carstein fighting against chaos in the EoTs.

Oh wow that would be amazing! Never heard of Inferno so that's one more google key word to add!
Yes I've actually just reread all of that army book fluff. Love the story about the Blood Dragon Knight
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Messages
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#10
Oh wow that would be amazing! Never heard of Inferno so that's one more google key word to add!
Yes I've actually just reread all of that army book fluff. Love the story about the Blood Dragon Knight

No probs. Give me a few weeks as work is crazy at the moment. But will see if I can dig it out. Picked the first 10 issues of inferno pretty cheap on eBay. Inferno was the the start of the black library and we're people like Dan abnet started. It was essentially fan fiction for warhammer. It been ages since I read them but I remember them being really good and quite gritty.

Was the blood dragon story in 5th or 6th ed army book?
 
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
14
#11
No probs. Give me a few weeks as work is crazy at the moment. But will see if I can dig it out. Picked the first 10 issues of inferno pretty cheap on eBay. Inferno was the the start of the black library and we're people like Dan abnet started. It was essentially fan fiction for warhammer. It been ages since I read them but I remember them being really good and quite gritty.

Was the blood dragon story in 5th or 6th ed army book?
Cheers man I'll keep searching in the meantime!
The Blood dragon story was in the 2003 6th ed one.
 
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
14
#14
the Vampire was a Strigoi wasn't it?
I *think* so. If I recall correctly he was lonely due to his appearnace looking so horrible and horrifying that he couldn't intergrate into human society. This backs up him possibly being a Strigoi I'd say as Necrachs are generally in the fluff hateful of all life and only tend to have experiments and only wanting the dead as company.
 

Irisado

Ancient Vampire Lord
Staff member
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May 22, 2010
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623
#15
their a corpse animated by dark magic of course their evil
It's a lot more complicated than that. Vampires are not just 'regular undead after all'. They are 'created' in a very different way to raising the dead after all ;).

Vampires are not a homogeneous group. They all have different motivations which drive them to behave in different ways. Some vampires can even dislike what they have become to such an extent that they hunt down other vampires and avoid trying to drain the blood of any humans other than those who are a threat to other people. Others are, of course, content to kill anyone they please, while there are those who kill people in accordance with a grand master plan. There is just so much variety.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
96
#17
Both ladies are a good example. Some of the lahmian' s are like that also. They have donors that they court, and try to stay under the radar. one of the Bruner stories has that theme.
A lot of it comes from your way of looking at it. Vlad isn't really "E" vil, he is a aristocrat who feels he can do better than the other counts. Then he goes a little to far, but still what many of the others are doing with live armies to each other. He understood the need for balance, not just to have a dead court. Now Konrad... Yeah there unhinged.
 
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