Ossiarch Bonereapers - A bone to far?

[Disciple of Nagash]

So it turns out there is possibly a bone too far even for me!

I'm liking some of the ideas behind the bonereapers (so Tomb Kingsy), the crafting elements with the souls etc. But then the background starts going into them creating cities, fortresses, roads....roads!....all from bones.

But earlier on they are basically saying like bones are a precious commodity as they need the raw material to build themselves, which is a process I can't imagine is quick. It seems like a massive waste to be making shiny stained bone brick road on your way to the amethyst city (and trust me, that wizard ain't going to be a pretend floating head) when you should instead be making more soldiers....especially when apparently you do daft things like throwing them into a battle knowing they will be destroyed just to act as a diversion (mentioned in the fluff). Do you know what we have for that? Zombies. Skellies. Hell, even grave guard must be easier than throwing away your uber soldiers that have to be carefully crafted body and soul.

Someone really needs to have a word about appropriate resource management!

 

[Sception]

It's a bit of a contradiction, isn't it? Personally I justify it via the assumption that there are different qualities of bone, suitable for different tasks. It seems that most ossiarchs use only the bones of sentient humanoids in their construction - based on the models and on some lore tidbits in various battletome sidebars & black library bits. I'm thinking in particular of the story where a city tries to use the bones of livestock to pay the tithe, and the ossiarchs reject this and attack the city. The Petrifex Elite specifically hunt for and use the petrified bones of ancient monsters. The null Myriad made extensive use skeletal soldiers of the former Legion of Sarament, saturaded as they were with the malign power of the gravesand they spent ages carrying to nagashizzar. Structure walls, roads, bridges, these can be built from any old bone, andimal bones, whatever.

The other justification is that bone isn't and never was a particularly limited resource. The heavy emphasis on the bonereaper's tithe was simply down to how much of it they needed - even common and cheap building materials like cement can suffer from limited supply lines when demand is high enough - and the Ossiarch demand for bone is nigh limitless. As for why bone wouldn't be exclusively reserved for soldiers - remember that ossiarchs are not simply made of bone. Their construction of their physical bodies also involves various enchanted metals and precious soulstones to house their souls. And far more than their physical components, it is the souls that form the real bottleneck for making more Ossiearchs. Even if my previous justification proves wrong and 'high quality' bones are not particularly necessary in the construction of ossiarchs, high quality souls certainly are. Few mortal souls have all the qualities needed to make an ossiarch soldier, and a great many have none. And all are tainted with the weaknesses of mortality that must be carefully cut away before what remains can be combined with other suitable soul elements. This is (retroactively) why Nagash was so very angry at Sigmar stealing the souls of the greatest mortal warriors and champions to make his Stormcast. Those are exactly the sorts of souls Nagash needs to expand his Ossiarch Legions.

The tithe also serves the secondary purpose of gradually grinding away the mortal peoples suffering under it - a burden just heavy enough to ensure that their populations and fighting strength decrease generation upon generation, while never being quite heavy enough to motivate those people to rise up against it before they're too weakened for such resistance to matter.

 

[Belladamma Voltaire]

My take on this was that when the Ossiarch are made initially in such a way that their bones and the other elements are intrinsically linked in such a way that they can be remade a lot easier than they were originally made if that makes sense. Like the fusion of the souls is so great that what the bone masons do in the field is more like triage to bring them back more easily after they are originally crafted. Kind of like using natural remedies for problems. Bones blown up? Use some other bone to fuse them back together and not need to totally remake them.

Given that people absorb the power of their realms in minute amounts throughout their life as well, the easiest way of death adapting to the new conditions of a realm would surely be to use the bones of said realm. Just look at the Null Myriad. All of the skeletons through shifted realm stone have been around raw magic for so long that they can now be functionally immune.

 

[The Sun King]

I'm with you in this one DoN. Honestly I just think they took the ball and ran with it. It must be daunting to write an entirely new faction like that, and I can forgive them for taking some things a bit too far. I guess that with time the "everything is bones" will get toned down and nuanced a bit.

 

[Gederas]

Welcome to AoS, where it's basically Warhammer Fantasy Battle meets He-Man And the Masters of the Universe mixed with an 80s cocktail of drugs for the OTT-ness of the setting.

Nothing is subtle, everything is ridiculous. And we love it for that

 

[Kassill]

Welcome to AoS, where it's basically Warhammer Fantasy Battle meets He-Man And the Masters of the Universe mixed with an 80s cocktail of drugs for the OTT-ness of the setting.

Nothing is subtle, everything is ridiculous. And we love it for that

I need fanart of Nagash shaking his bony fist in the sky yelling "Myah! Sigmar!!!!"

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

I need our random quote generator back! That made me laugh

Some interesting points there. I'd agree that the souls are certainly the more precious resource as @Belladonna Voltaire said, there are likely many who have no value whatsoever for the Bonereapers. On the bone side, the grinding down of the mortal civilisation certainly makes sense, but I do have to agree with @The Sun King - they definitely have gone bone overboard into cheesy boneness!

 

[Grave Tacticus]

I found the Ossiarchs an affront to my Deathrattle sensibilities, and I'm glad it was mentioned in our new battletome that my reaction was canon appropriate.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

An interesting point there. We know that the different Mortarchs are always playing off against each other, but do we think the different Death factions are very much divided like the Chaos powers, only really aligning when the big man tells them to?

 

[Sception]

An interesting point there. We know that the different Mortarchs are always playing off against each other, but do we think the different Death factions are very much divided like the Chaos powers, only really aligning when the big man tells them to?

Absolutely. If anything, they're even more divided than the Chaos factions. While I'm not at all clear on the motives of Olyner and the Nighthaunts (I haven't yet gotten around to reading Broken Realms: Be'Lakor or her recent novel which might have some insight there), the other three main death factions are very much in opposition to one another. The ossiarchs have already shown they have no interest in making exceptions to their Tithe for mordant communities or the mortal feeding stock claimed by the Soulblight lords, leading to multiple internal conflicts with other death factions already. And FEC are themselves a threat to Soulblight feeding stock. Also, some vampires may even believe that the corruption and madness of the abhorrent could be contagious. Even within factions there is conflict - not so much within the Ossiarchs, who were built to be extremely orderly and rigidly obedient to their hierarchy by nature*, but the various FEC kingdoms and Soulblight dominions have no particularly kinship loyalty to others of their kind. We see this in the Gravelords especially, with Mannfred and Neferata breaking into civil war practically the moment Nagash was out of the picture.

* That's basically the point of the Ossiarchs. The problem Nagash was trying to correct with the Ossiarch Legions was not that his previous undead armies had been insufficiently powerful, but rather that they had been insufficiently loyal. Lesser undead lack the strength and intelligence to be a meaningful threat on their own without higher forms of undead to direct them, but those higher undead which retain the cleverness and drive of their mortal minds also retain their mortal ambitions and failings, motivations contrary to Nagash's vision which have time and again undermined his goals. Ossiarch souls are painstakingly hand crafted to correct this failing - the mortal souls used to create them are first teased apart - something that is nigh impossible to do without destroying them - so that the desired qualities can be maintained and recombined with similar qualities teased from other souls, while everything else is discarded. The slow and tedious process of crafting these souls, and the need for high quality raw materials, is the reason the Ossiarch Legions took so long to prepare, far more so than their also intricate and resource heavy physical forms. And the souls of the Ossiarchs - intelligent, creative, driven, but entirely devoid of any purpose beyond advancing the will of Nagash - are the reason why Nagash favors them over the other undead factions, and why Arkhan slaughtered his entire legion the moment the Ossiarchs were ready for war. It's not because Ossiarch armies are inherently more powerful than those of the Gravelords, but rather because they can be trusted to continue working diligently towards Nagash's goals even when he isn't personally around to keep them in line through sheer force.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

A great explanation as always Sception on Olyner and the Nighthaunts, maybe Belladonna Voltaire can offer some insight, I think he's read those books?

So within the Bonereapers, is there the concept of individual thought? If a soul has been sliced and re-stitched it sounds like thinking would be a problem, or are they more like programmed robots / limited AI, to do what they need to do without their own desires? Does that mean there is no one in the Bonereapers, even senior commanders who have something akin to individual personality and free-will, apart from their Mortarch?

I'm wondering if there could ever be the equivalent of a robotic/skynet uprising if they are programmed to do a certain thing but that gets corrupted over time?

 

[Cthulhu]

I haven’t kept up with the lore so this thread was an interesting read, great explanations! The question of free will is super cool, makes me more intrigued by the faction... From a visual standpoint, I agree that there is such a thing as too much bone! I love the Katakros model and the big one in the Underworlds warband, so for me, some more minis with cloaks and other fabrics and materials could be a good addition to the range. Maybe more ghostly bits as well? At the same time, there is an appeal to a highly regimented mass of almost nothing but bone!

 

[Grave Tacticus]

I found the Ossiarchs an affront to my Deathrattle sensibilities, and I'm glad it was mentioned in our new battletome that my reaction was canon appropriate.

I suppose it wasn't too much of an affront, now that I'm team OBR. Something we haven't talked about yet is how the transformation into a gestalt soul is a major benefit if you can accept the loss of the original, individual self. I have a few qualities in my character I would gladly and speedily excise if the option were available to me, and an easily repaired body without any weaknesses as well!

One big issue I've always had with OBR is their unbending loyalty to Nagash, at least in theory, but even that is up for debate. The Ossiarch are as perfect as Nagash, it is said.

 

[Sception]

I don't think we'll see any straight up disloyalty or rebellion out of the ossiarchs, that's kind of their fundamental point after all, but there's more going on in their heads than mindless devotion.

The Crematorians in particular have a compelling side motivation secretly preserving captured tomes of enemy magic and lore, studying them in secret from the other ossiarchs in the hope of curing the 'defects' in their design that cause their bodies to spontaneously combust. That they're trying to undo the 'defect' when it's clear that from Nagash's perspective their walking bomb bodies are a feature, not a bug, shows that it's possible for ossiarch motivations to not be perfectly aligned with those of Nagash, and the fact that they keep their research secret shows that on some level they know their actions are subversive, yet they persist anyway.

 

[Grave Tacticus]

I think we've had Mortisan Executioners the whole time, and we just didn't realize it, and I don't think anyone noticed until now really. The first attached image is one I'm sure many of us are familiar with, it usually shows up whenever there is OBR media present. Now, in the background you may think that the figure is a regular Soulreaper, but the perspective is too far back and they even put a convenient size comparison shield next to it. This guy is huge! It can't be a normal Soulreaper, and we already have a name and figure for giant sized Soulreapers. Surely, if there is any indication that GW planned to add Executioners to the OBR line-up proper, this image and Mir Kainan seem to indicate to me that a generic Executioner is on the way. I could be wrong, and they could totally pull something else out, but they also don't usually put random stuff in the main art. Fingers crossed!

 

[Sception]

he's not huge, he's floating, like the soulreaper model does. he's bigger than the morteks next to him, sure, but if you put a reaper next to a mortek you'll see that this too reflects the model. the head, armor, and weapon are all quite distinctive. this is a soul reaper.

 

[Grave Tacticus]

he's not huge, he's floating, like the soulreaper model does. he's bigger than the morteks next to him, sure, but if you put a reaper next to a mortek you'll see that this too reflects the model. the head, armor, and weapon are all quite distinctive. this is a soul reaper.

But the model is so scrawny! And Executioners have the same design aesthetic as the Soulreapers. I'll concede that you're probably right, and that the artist just overblew the perspective. That Harvester in the background is enormous, after all.

Still hoping for the generic Executioner model. Really feel like that's what's missing for the Ossiarch Goliaths line-up.

 

[Sception]

remember, morteks are super tiny. even if the reaper were standing on the ground instead of floating, he'd still stand head & shoulders taller than a mortek warrior.

 

[Grave Tacticus]

What would you prefer the new Hero model be?

 

[Sception]

From the rumors? I don't know. honestly, I'm not excited for another mortisan in general, we've already got 3 mortisans plus mir kainan and the tax man. If we were doomed to just a pity hero this time around, I would have rather seen an infantry liege or a morghast hero.

 

[Grave Tacticus]

From the rumors? I don't know. honestly, I'm not excited for another mortisan in general, we've already got 3 mortisans plus mir kainan and the tax man. If we were doomed to just a pity hero this time around, I would have rather seen an infantry liege or a morghast hero.

You have my condolences, I'll try to keep my celebration to a respectful funerary service.

 

[The Sun King]

I actually really like the new mason! It is very specific and it tells a story with the big head being constructed.

 

[Sception]

I like the new model, but it's frustrating on two levels. 1: we did not need a new mortisan, and 2: this model is a frank admission that GW is out of ideas for new mortisans. Because this model is just a boneshaper.



The same fingers coming out of the head and back plate, the same armor, the same model concept of a wizard pulling material away from a bone they're standing on in a smokey arcane stream up to a new ossiarch shape they're forming, even the same sigil on their chest plate.

These are the same unit, aesthetically. Just two different models for the same boneshaper unit. Which I'd actually honestly be cool with if they were making boneshapers better and more interesting such that players might want more than one and appreciate having two different models to represent it with.

But GW doesn't want to release a second model for the same unit. The two releases would at least to some extent cannibalize each other's sales. So the new boneshaper is a separate unit, but whatever functionality it has will be functionality /carved out/ of the existing unit.

I mean, what's even the difference between them? The new boneshaper specializes in healing and supporting the big stuff. But the boneshaper already heals big stuff. Half the narrative concept of OBR is that there is no distinction between weak-but-recursive summonable units and the army's elites. Everything is elites, and any healing affects can target any of the army's units. Right now healing is the only unique thing the boneshaper does - it's also a wizard, but its signature spell is lousy so spellcasting is limited to generic spells and obr lore, stuff that any of the other obr wizards can do.

If the new boneshaper does the healing /and/ a meaningful buff, even if it only targets particular units, then it's still just an objectively superior boneshaper. In the best case scenario both boneshapers will be able to heal anything, the new boneshaper will get a buff for big stuff, and the old boneshaper will get a new buff for the smaller stuff. In the worst case scenario, the old boneshaper will be left as is completely obsoleted, or even worse nerfed to only heal the little stuff in order to create a niche for the new guy that didn't exist before.

I'm still reasonably hopeful for the best case scenario, but even in that situation, creating a division between 'boneshaper for big stuff' and 'boneshaper for little stuff' undermines one of the core narrative principles of the army - that bit about how everything is supposed to be elite and there isn't a significant distinction between 'the little stuff' and 'the big stuff' like there is in other warhammer undead factions.

...

None of which is to say it isn't a cool model. It may just be a new boneshaper, but it's also a /better/ boneshaper, with a cooler pose, more aggressive and threatening decorative bone fingers, gribblier hands, etc. And I thought the existing boneshaper was already pretty dang cool, so yeah, I love this model, and I'll be ordering one the moment pre-orders go live. I'd love it /more/ if it were a variant model for the existing boneshaper unit, and I'd have been /much/ happier with an infantry liege, but that doesn't mean I won't be happy to add this guy to my collection. Whether I build and paint him any time soon or just put him in storage with the rest of my obr to wait for their 4th edition release will depend on the battletome though.

 

[Belladamma Voltaire]

A great explanation as always Sception on Olyner and the Nighthaunts, maybe Belladonna Voltaire can offer some insight, I think he's read those books?

So within the Bonereapers, is there the concept of individual thought? If a soul has been sliced and re-stitched it sounds like thinking would be a problem, or are they more like programmed robots / limited AI, to do what they need to do without their own desires? Does that mean there is no one in the Bonereapers, even senior commanders who have something akin to individual personality and free-will, apart from their Mortarch?

I'm wondering if there could ever be the equivalent of a robotic/skynet uprising if they are programmed to do a certain thing but that gets corrupted over time?

That's the point though. Nagash has managed to find someone whose loyalty is only to one thing, conquest. Katakros has been gifted his perfect afterlife by Nagash and ironically in doing so Nagash has gained everything for himself. By also showing his most loyal servant, Arkhan, that he has the best of the best of those constructs (and I will argue that the Null Myriad are the best OBR because stopping magic means stopping daemons and the horrors equivalent across the realms).

Olynders imperative is grief, at all times grief. Her allying Be'lakor in with this is purely convenience. Her hand is forced through a daring strike at Dolorum so essentially Lady Olynder benefited but to speak he needed her full undivided attention. It was a ballsy move but that's entirely keeping with Be'lakor playbook. He's a brazen narcissist who has the experience to back it up.

The most significant development for Katakros currently remains that he cannot shake the remnants of his initial slaying but Archaon and that his defenses got defeated by the Everchosen. He still has the single most impressive military victory of the Age of Sigmar in my opinion and it's hard to keep that level of momentum going. I think the focus of the Ossiarch is going to be on maintaining the supply lines needed for that endeavour.

 

[Sception]

I'm so hype for new ossiarch lore. I'm not expecting a ton, since afaik this book doesn't mark the return of Nagash and Arkhan to the Narrative, but any little bit will be exciting. Without Nagash's unifying influence now is the ideal time to inject the ossiarchs with a bit of individuality and internal conflict. from the Warcom preview article, it sounds like Katakros will be struggling to hold OBR gains in the 8 points, Vokmortian struggles to maintain the supply of resources to Katakros as living vassal states in Shyish start refusing the tithe, and while they various subfactions all remain true to what they see as 'the vision of nagash', understanding of that that vision is exactly start to diverge resulting in ossiarch heresies.

And you can imagine how that would go - Ivory host & Petrifex start corrupting their forms with beast magic saturating the bones of ghur's monsters, crematorians start offering leniancy to cities they were supposed to destroy in exchange for access to lore that might help them fix their 'flaw', Stalliarch start picking costly & unnecessary fights or wiping out mortal communities that could have been more productive as tithing vassals if nagash or arkhan had been around to temper their hatred of the living with even a little strategic forethought.

I'm not expecting grand stories of new OBR victories, but there's a lot of compelling characterization to be mined from defeats.