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Overrun Tactica

Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
194
#1
I just wanted to post a quick tactic I love using with my army of Wolves. When facing something that would be difficult for my lone Vampire Lord to take down, I lime my wolves up for over-run charges. I took a unit of Inner Circle Knights with what I assume was a War Banner and +2 ranks (a total of +5 to any CR before any wounds even happen), and charged them with a unit of wolves. They obviously one and over-ran into another unit of wolves. For 3 rounds I kept that unit locked up with over-runs until they ran off the battlefield. By the time they got back, all their Support had been decimated by my Vampire Lord and Dragon. The final rounds were little more than a Curse of Years on that unit that it just couldn't dispel because his mages were dead too, and 10 is a tall number to reach on 2D6.

I know, not the most enlightening tactic possible, but one that I was very pleased with when it worked so absolutely perfectly, so thought I'd post it up for others to try. :)
 

Azahul

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
1,036
#2
i've used much the same tactic before in my own army, it works very well. in my case i just used a line of summoned zombie units though
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
194
#3
Careful with Zombies.... The wolves work because the enemy knows that if they avoid the over-run and turn around, the wolves have a movement capable of engaging them in a rear-flank attack. If I were using Knights and zombies appeared in front of me, I'd just turn around and start heading back not worried if the zombies intended to charge or not. Of course, vs Khorne or other Frenzied models, quickly summoned Zombies are definitely a better choice if you have the power dice to do it. :)
 

Azahul

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
1,036
#4
well the two armies i face most often are khornate chaos and bretonnians, who arent very easy to maneourve, and since neither army takes much for magic defence, about 1/2 damsel/s in 1000pts for the brets and just the extra DD the mark of khorne gives you for the chaos it is usually quite easy tio accomplish, especially if i position the unit close enough to the knights and slanting in the right direction, which i am getting quite good at, so that even if they turn around and ignore the zombies then i am actually in a position to charge them, forcing them to charge me even if they arent frenzied :D anyway, the unit i use the tactic on most often is a 12 strong regiment of chosen chaos warriors of khorne with 2 hand weapons, 21 attacks from the front rank o_o
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#5
Well, in 7th edition they won't overrun directly after winning combat if you charged them, but similar principle applies, put two units of wolves in front of the knights and they'll be stuck there for 2-3 turns. Though a smart player will hit the back unit withsomething else first, of course.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
194
#6
True, in 6th edition this tactic would have not worked at all, you'd have lost all your units in 1 turn. 7th edition is where it's aimed of course. But it takes more than a smart player to hit the back unit, it takes a fast army to get back there, something most armies aren't. Armies that are fast enough (Wood Elves), rarely need this tactic to be used against them.
 

N.I.B

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
2,370
#7
Sphynx said:
I took a unit of Inner Circle Knights with what I assume was a War Banner and +2 ranks (a total of +5 to any CR before any wounds even happen), and charged them with a unit of wolves. They obviously won and over-ran into another unit of wolves.
As EvC said, this isn't 7th ed rules.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
194
#8
How not? You over-run, you hit into another unit in the way, you wait til next phase to resolve. You win, you over-run, you hit another unit in the way, you wait til next phase to resolve. That's the tactic. I kept a unit of Inner Knights 'busy' until the went off-field for 4 turns, on the 5th turn they came back and by then, the game was all but over.
 

Master Vampire

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
2,342
#9
Sphynx said:
How not? You over-run, you hit into another unit in the way, you wait til next phase to resolve. You win, you over-run, you hit another unit in the way, you wait til next phase to resolve. That's the tactic. I kept a unit of Inner Knights 'busy' until the went off-field for 4 turns, on the 5th turn they came back and by then, the game was all but over.
Actually, I think that applied for 6th edition. When you overrun and get stuck in a combat in 7th, you fight it out the same phase.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
194
#10
Only if that unit they over-run into is engaged in combat and has not 'finished' their combat for that turn. Otherwise it waits for the next combat phase for resolution (pg 45)
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#11
In 7th edition, you may only overrun if your unit charged that turn. Not if you were charged. (And you only get to fight a second time if the next unit is already engaged and hasn't fought)

More to the point, if you're using 4 units of Dire Wolves at 50 points each to tie up a unit costing 200-300 points, and you're not actually doing any damage to that unit, then all you're doing is gifting your opponent VPs.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
194
#12
I wasn't aware of OverRun being Chargers only. You're right, this tactic wouldn't work well at all using the rules.

As for the VPs, not a concern. Only concern is survival of the General, and collecting the much easier VPs elsewhere. Please, take the 50 points a turn there while my General (or primary unit) takes much more than that. Worthy sacrifice.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
18
#13
I was under the impression that MV is right, and the unit that overuns (even if hitting into a unit that is free from combat) will still fight a round of combat regardless.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
194
#14
Nope, that much I know to be wrong. The only time attacks happen from an over-run is when it's into a unit that is already in combat and hasn't resolved combat yet.

I saw a girl once playing Bretonnian who came at a BloodThirster from -over- some Chaos Knights with her Pegasus Riders (at an angle so that he'd turn his flank a bit) and refuse the Challenge just to get into combat. Then the Grail Knights plowed through the Chaos Knights (from another angle, aiming for the Blood Thirster) and over-ran into the BloodThirster (killing it too) without the Pegasus Riders ever lifting a lance, just because she made sure to not resolve the Pegasus attack before the Grail attack. Something she showed she wouldn't have been able to do if the Pegasus Knights weren't there. Seemed ingenious to me at the time, and I memorized the rule and how it worked at that point, though obviously, not the fact that only chargers can over-run. :tongue:
 

Azahul

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
1,036
#15
Sphynx is right, you only get to fight again if you overrun into an enemy unit that has not resolved combat yet, and even if that unit loses combat and breaks or is wiped out your overruning unit cannot overrun or pursue again, only allowed to do it once a phase
 
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
114
#16
Hi all,
quick question about the overrun situations being talked about. Doesen't the overrunner have the choice to restrain (make a ld test, if pass, they can stay still, otherwise they have to overrun)?

As others have stated, yes the only unit that can overrun is the unit that charged that turn, and overrun can only happen on the 1st round of combat.

Thanks,
Wilhelm
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
121
#17
Wilhelm von Carstien said:
Hi all,
quick question about the overrun situations being talked about. Doesen't the overrunner have the choice to restrain (make a ld test, if pass, they can stay still, otherwise they have to overrun)?

Thanks,
Wilhelm
yes, you can. the only exception are when they hate the enemy, or are frienzy.

Cheers

Lord Aldrek
 

dzungia

Skeleton
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
98
#19
Overrun is not a must. Leadership test is required in case of pursuits. If you want your unit not to pursue then they need leadership test, even if they are Immune to Psychology.

If the charger kills all in the enemy unit in the turn it charges then it can overrun. This is just like keeping the momentum. But you DON'T HAVE TO.
In case the charged unit is not completely destroyed in the same combat phase that they are charged and if they run away, then the charging unit must pass a leadership test in order not to pursue. But this is for all combats. Not only for the first round of a combat.

Hatred is only to reroll to hit rolls in the first round of combat. So, normal rules apply.

About frenzy, I have not read everything yet:)
 
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