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Pirate's Road to Gottacon 2015 (2500 point uncomped)

Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#1
Vampire Lord: Talisman of Preservation; The Other Trickster's Shard; Nightshroud; Red Fury; Quickblood; Level 4 Wizard; Lore of Shadow; lance; shield; heavy armour; Hellsteed 554
Vampire Lord: Ogre Blade; Armour of Destiny; Dragonbane Gem; Potion of Foolhardiness; Red Fury; Quickblood; Beguile; Level 3 Wizard; Lore of Undeath; shield; Hellsteed 518

40 Skeleton Warriors (TK): Master of Arms; musician; standard bearer 190
39 Skeleton Warriors (TK): Master of Arms; musician; standard bearer 186
10 Skeleton Horsemen: light armour; Master of Horse; musician; standard bearer 170
5 Dire Wolves 40
5 Dire Wolves 40

4 Vargheists: Vargoyle 194
3 Vargheists: Vargoyle 148
5 Hexwraiths 150

Casket of Souls 135
Varghulf 175

2,500 points




Our major local Tournie just announced that undead legions and 50-50% lords/heroes will be the name of the game for this year, and I couldn't be more excited. I'd been writing double blender VC lists that I was less-than-thrilled about, but the legion gives me an opportunity to take exactly what I'm looking for. Namely that's a lightning-fast flying vampire force with strong magic and lots of moving parts.

Double blenders: the basic premise of the list is these two bad boys (well...boy and girl). King Mekhet and Queen Ahi are designed to fly solo wherever possible, though I've included units for them to hide in/near should it come to that.

Not entirely satisfied by their builds. I'm liking a mundane weapon choice for BotWD stars, but the lance seems chancy. Might swap for a GW, but then I lose rerolls.

Other option is obsidian blade. Nice against armour, but less against high T.

Finally Lores. I decided on Undeath because it was fun in play tests. Also allows flexibility in what I raise. However I'm also considering death, or just double shadow. Not considering vampires, since it doesn't really do much with the unit selections I've made.

Death and Shadow is a strong contender, but it's also...kind of dirty. I really don't want to win games by slinging purple suns down people's lines or sniping out their characters. I have enough problems as it is with my sportsmanship scores without falling down that rabbit hole.

Varghulf is there to catch cannonballs. He's basically a replacement for the TG, which I can't keep healed up without LoV. Also wanted something fighty and good against infantry. He's sort of a compromise choice, since he seems kind of fun and sort of jived with the list.

Hex Wraiths / Horsemen: these are in the list primarily to protect my vampires. I figure the hexxies will do well orbiting my hellsteed vampires as well, and draw some magic missile fire away from my VLs.

Yes, the horsemen bunker is very small. It's not really meant to be a permanent bus for the vampires. It's really just there to protect one or both of them from cannons/stone throwers for long enough to get them into combat. If I do use them as a bus it will be 3-wide (VL on each corner, with champion in the middle so that OTS isn't hitting one of my vampires).

Vargheists: because mindrazored vargheists sounds fucking awesome. I'm honestly considering all my levels on Shadow just to try them out.

Skeletons: So I've been doing well with the 2x40 skeleton blocks. They're mostly there to hold stuff up for juuuust long enough for my other hammers to go to town. However, with shadow magic and withering I'm wondering if I wouldn't be better trading in for some skeleton archers? They'd be less durable as an anvil, but would gain in some much-needed punch.

Alternatively I could drop the varghulf for a TP in a big unit of archers. Give me a multi-use brick that could hold things up in combat and shoot things down from afar.


Casket vs Terrorgheist: so without vampires the TG just doesn't cut it. Too easy to knock him out of commission. The casket is something I really love, though, because it really screws with your opponents' heads. Having played it lots I'm not super impressed by its damage potential against anything important, since IP+BSB cripples the effectiveness of light of death. However it's amazing at knocking out warmachines, chaff, and flanking forces. It is also cannonbait, and makes two lord-level wizards a viable choice.
 
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Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#2
Having trouble sleeping, so I tinkered around with the list and came up with this alternative build. It's...well unpleasant to say the least.

Vampire Lord: Talisman of Preservation; The Other Trickster's Shard; Potion of Strength; Power Stone; Red Fury; Quickblood; Level 4 Wizard; Lore of Death; lance; shield; heavy armour; Hellsteed 554
Vampire Lord: Ogre Blade; Armour of Destiny; Potion of Foolhardiness; Red Fury; Quickblood; Level 4 Wizard; Lore of Shadow; shield; Hellsteed 533

Tomb Prince: Dragonbane Gem; Ironcurse Icon; great weapon 114

12 Skeleton Horsemen: light armour; Master of Horse; musician; standard bearer 198
5 Dire Wolves 40
5 Dire Wolves 40
53 Skeleton Archers: Master of Arrows; musician; standard bearer 348

4 Vargheists: Vargoyle 194
4 Vargheists: Vargoyle 194
5 Hexwraiths 150

Casket of Souls 135

2,500 points


Kind of liking The Lord builds though. Less survivable but the potion+lance is a nice way to add an extra round of hitting power. Plus there's the possibility for S10 on a charge if it's needed...for some strange reason. Killing Nagash maybe? Who knows.

The gross part about this list is the magic though. Death and shadow are just savage together, and there's so much synergy with this list. Nearly any unit in my army is a good target for Occams. Pit can take care of warmachines. Withering+soulblight and those archers are going to town. Vargs can break stuff rebuffed with D&D, and it goes well with the casket.

...not to mention miasma + powerstone purple sun into a whole new magic phase. Savage.
 

The Sun King

Imperator
True Blood
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
3,838
#3
I like both lists. Some thoughts:

1. The Hellsteed vamps might get gunned down quickly, but give it a shot (pun intended).
2. In the first list; why the TK Skeletons? And to continue on that note; why not split the 10 Horsies into 5s?
3. In the second list; I would get Armour of Silvered Steel and DBG for the Tomb Prince, deploy the Archers in Horde and put him in there.

Let us now how it goes!

PS. I love your Magic Setup, I will be running something similar. May Sigmar have mercy on our foes :twisted:
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#4
1) the unit of 10 horsemen exists to protect the Hellsteed vamps from getting gunned down. Ill screen with vargs and hex wraiths for cover, and hopefully by the time they can get through the unit I'll be in combat.

2) TK skeletons because they're cheaper and get the job done. Really liking two units of 40 as an anvil unit.

3) trouble there is that AoSS+dog would cost an extra 40 points. That's another vargheist. I've found that T5 3W on the edge of a horde with the champion nearby is generally decent enough protection. His purpose is really just to make that unit more anvilly and preserve it's points.

4) thanks! Death and shadow is gross.
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#5
I'm an idiot. Potion of Strength and OTS are both enchanted items. Swapped things around so that both vampire builds are legal.

One thing I'm a little concerned about on second thought is having only one big horsemen unit to bunker my vampires in against cannons / stone throwers / etc. Really easy to chew through that unit and get at both my squishy vampires.

I'm thinking of running two units of 9 instead of one unit of 12. This way both my vampires could charge out of their respective bunkers when the time comes. Once they're in combat I'm not worried about them (two will more than overcome SCR).
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#6
Vampire Lord: Potion of Strength; Power Stone; Armour of Destiny; Dragonbane Gem; Red Fury; Quickblood; Level 4 Wizard; Lore of Death; lance; shield; Hellsteed 543
Vampire Lord: Ogre Blade; Talisman of Preservation; The Other Trickster's Shard; Red Fury; Quickblood; Level 4 Wizard; Lore of Shadow; shield; heavy armour; Hellsteed 544

Tomb Prince: Dragonhelm; great weapon 114

9 Skeleton Horsemen: light armour; Master of Horse; musician; standard bearer 156
49 Skeleton Archers: Master of Arrows; musician; standard bearer 324
9 Skeleton Horsemen: light armour; Master of Horse; standard bearer 146

4 Vargheists: Vargoyle 194
4 Vargheists: Vargoyle 194
5 Hexwraiths 150

Casket of Souls 135

2,500 points


Okay, so after some fiddling around this is what I've come to.

Horsemen are there to babysit a Vampire each until they can get into combat. They also have banners so can capture objectives, plus I've got some janky ideas for them in respect of some other funky scenarios I'm seeing in the tournament pack (which I'll think more about once I've got a better handle on the list itself).

Hex wraiths are there to orbit the general's bus dishing out wounds, and to grant LoS! to any Vampire whose horsemen bus gets pulverized.

The vargheists are there to eat warmachines, and provide a target for Mindrazor (my #1 target spell on Shadow). They'll also form part of the out-flanking force.


I'm not super sure on the big unit of archers. My idea is using wither + soulblight to soften targets up for them to light up, or to reform into horde to grind out against debuffed foes (not to mention WS5 mindrazored skeletons at LD9).

My issue is that they've eaten up most of my core allowance, and with the two horsemen units I don't really have room for any chaff. I don't like that much. My only consolation is that I'm fast enough that I should still be able to out-maneuver my opponents, and chaff might not be such a big deal. Plus between the archers and my ability to fly I shouldn't be too concerned about enemy chaff anyways.

Oh yeah, and the casket. He's there to eat warmachines so that my vargheists can be combat blocks, to punch out enemy outflanking forces, and to provide a battery for my two wizards. Plus the casket is unreasonably terrifying to many players, and tends to eat a load of cannon and stonethrower shots that could otherwise be trying to knock out my vampires. Without a terrorgheist this list really doesn't have any obvious cannon targets, and I'd really prefer that they not shoot at the non-obvious targets.



The one big change I'm considering making is dropping the prince, and splitting the archers into two units of 20. The extra 60 points would buy the additional command and go towards a unit or two of dogs. Then the points from the prince could be used on....I really don't know what. Spirit hosts?
 
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Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#7
Played against my buddy's chaos legions list last night. Glottkin, nurgle BSB, 2x 10 harpies, 10 blight kings, 5 drones, 40ish plague bearers, 10 marauder horse. Cliffnotes of the game:

1) tried to overload one flank and sweep, but didn't have enough drops. Need more. VL on death was deployed too far over.

2) VL shadow and two dogs into the BKs. Other wasn't in range (stupid stupid). One unit of vargs failed.

3) so now I'm worried. Those vargs are going to get ruined, and I'm afraid that will crumble the vampire. Need to help the, do some wounds before they go down. 11 dice magic phase. I figure I do 2 casket, 3 soulblight on the BKs, then 6 at pit on Glotty. That way if I miscast on pit I don't lose my vargs.

Instead I miscast on soulblight on 3 dice and my death vamp jumps down a hole. Lol. Lovely.

4) Glotty and BSB chew through my skeletons, plague drones eat the empty horsemen units. Lose the vargs to BKs but the other vargs get in to help the blender eat the unit. Hexxies get magicked off.

5) plague drones catch VL in the flank and kill him on SCR, after being buffed so that he flubbed wounding them. I concede.



Unit by unit analysis:

VLs: reserving judgment on the Lores for now, but I'll probably drop either shadow or death for vampires. Probably death. Its good, but feels like walking a tight rope without a net. Vampires gives the list more durability, which I don't have right now.

Skeleton brick: without parries this unit bleeds CR, even at WS 5. Splitting it up for more flexibility, and ditching the prince.

Horsemen: two units was crap. Needed chaff more. Dropping to one unit of 13, and buying 3 units of dogs with the difference.

Hex wraiths: fuck these guys. Can't stand hex wraiths. Dropping them and the prince for a warsphinx or a terrorgheist. Haven't decided yet. Probably warsphinx...need something to deal with infantry.

Vargs: even tag-teaming with vampires they still need to be on the flanks. Got greedy with them. Won't do that again.


New list:

Vampire Lord: Potion of Strength; Power Stone; Armour of Destiny; Dragonbane Gem; Red Fury; Quickblood; Beguile; Level 4 Wizard; Lore of Death; lance; shield; Hellsteed 558
Vampire Lord: Ogre Blade; Talisman of Preservation; The Other Trickster's Shard; Red Fury; Quickblood; Beguile; Level 4 Wizard; Lore of Shadow; shield; heavy armour; Hellsteed 559

13 Skeleton Horsemen: light armour; Master of Horse; standard bearer 202
21 Skeleton Archers: Master of Arrows; musician; standard bearer 156
20 Skeleton Archers: Master of Arrows; musician; standard bearer 150
5 Dire Wolves 40
5 Dire Wolves 40
5 Dire Wolves 40

4 Vargheists: Vargoyle 194
4 Vargheists: Vargoyle 194
Khemrian Warsphinx: Fiery Roar 230

Casket of Souls 135

2,498 points
 
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
583
#8
Your most recent list is definitely the least concerning. Although I think it still has the same issues as the last 2.

Your vampire lords are your damage, and that is the end of it. Either one goes down and you may as well have just lost half your army.

Second is target saturation. You need the vamps alive but your opponent has no reason to hit anything that isn't them. At least with the most recent list you have the sphinx, but that will likely get chaffed all game because there's nothing else for enemy chaff to do vs your army all game.

And just a suggestion, but if vars are bleeding cr too hard you could always swap a unit for some morghasts. They are basically tanky varghiests and reduce crumble by 1.

Swapping a handful of archers for some chariots wouldn't hurt either. Also the my will be done isn't very useful in a weak unit without buff support so dumping the tomb prince, seeing as you have no elite unit that wouldn't need buff support, is probably the right call.
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#9
I've considered it, but morghasts don't have the sheer weight of attacks that vargheists do. Trading 15 attacks for 6. I just need to remember not to send them into the front of things.

I'm also trying to figure out what to do about the monster I'm running. I'm currently deciding between the sphinx or a hierotitan + spirit host for this list! or dropping Death for Vampires and taking a terrorgheist.

I'm leaning terrorgheist just because he's a good threat to draw fire first couple turns. Plus death is a lazy crutch lore. However I'll probably run the HT list this weekend just to try it out.
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#10
So had a chance to try my list out a few times at over the weekend. Here’s a brief overview of how it turned out. All lists are from memory, so don’t mind any mistakes. My list is the same as above, but the warkitty has become a hierotitan + spirit host.

Game 1: Skaven

Greyseer level 4 on bell, fencer’s blades, earthening rod?
40ish storm vermin

Greyseer level 4 (general), tal of pres, dispel scroll
BSB with storm banner
level 1 engineer with scroll and condenser
20ish clanrat bunker

Lord with the fellblade, who was also deployed in the bunker (afraid of my vampire insta-gibbing him before he could strike).

3x50 slaves

Double doomwheel

Hellpit

Warp lightning cannon

(exactly 625, so no room for spikes on the HPA)


We roll up meeting engagement, and he wins the roll to go first. He deploys quite aggressively along the line, with a doomwheel and HPA on my left with one unit of slaves, the bell with bunker behind, and another unit of slaves and a doomwheel on my right. Cannon deploys out back, with one unit of slaves in reserves.

I deploy dogs, spirit host, and fellbats on the left to chaff up the HPA. Then skeletons to shield me / anchor my centre. Then my horsemen bunker (3-wide) with both vampires, lined up just to the right of his bell unit, my HT just to the right of it, and both vargheists with a unit of dogs in front.

Deploying along the line really screwed my opponent, as did my getting to see his entire deployment before placing units. My spirit host gets into his HPA bottom of 1, and the doomwheel doesn’t bail it out in time to affect the game. My vampires kill his bell, seer and unit in three consecutive rounds, then get into his bunker. Vargs kill a doomwheel and are poised to eat his cannon. Vampire kills his fellblade bearer before he can strike and he concedes.

After the game we talk about how it went, and my opponent agrees that he shouldn’t have deployed so aggressively. I also suggest that he should drop the earthening rod for a doomrocket on his engineer, and find points for some chaff.


Game 2: Wood Elves

Opponent is running a funny list:

Combat lord with ogre blade, ward save on a dragon

Sisters on a dragon

3 units of foot archers with true flight, poison, and poison.

Two treemen

8? Wild riders


So this is a really interesting game. I deploy chaff to suss out his position. He puts poison, true flight, and poison, one in each third of the board. Dragon and treeman go in the middle, sisters and other treeman on the right. Wild riders on the left.

I put my skeletons in the middle, who will hopefully speedbump the wild riders (oh, how wrong I was). Archers on my right to shoot at elves, and the vampires+vargs+HT+casket on my right, hoping to mitigate how much shooting he can bring to bear against me all at once.

I played a pretty crap game and let his dragons fly around behind me a few times. My vampires were also very tired apparently from killing so many skaven, and decided not to show up to this game.

Lance vampire caught his rightmost treeman in conjunction with my vargs, failed to kill it on the first time, then had to charge it again once it rallied to finish the job. Horsemen sacrificed themselves holding up the sisters dragon while my vampire polished off the treeman. Which wouldn’t have been necessary, but my other vampire decided he’d rather trip balls on fairy gas than charge that dragon in the rear. Ugh.

Then to top matters off the other vampire went into the sisters after finishing off the treeman. Lance + potion of strength for S10. However she rolled 3 1s to wound and left the dragon alive on a single wound, who then smacked her down. Turned what should have been 700 points in my favour into 550 to my opponent.

Vargs ate two units of archers before dying to the last one. Other vargs failed LD10 frenzy and went down in a blaze of glory against his dragon lord. Wild riders punched through the skeletons in a single round (ouchhhhhhh), then ate my casket and archers before dying to the VL. End of the game only my spirit host and vampire lord remain. Ugh.


Game 3: Warriors of Chaos

I was packing up to go home when one of my clubmates asks for another game against his Swedish list that he’s planning on bringing to a masters’ qualifier coming up. I’m pretty tired but I said sure why not.

He’s running a hellcannon, a massive unit of marauder horsemen with like 5 tooled up characters in it. A big unit of marauders on foot. Some chariots, a warshrine, a chimera, and dogs.

It’s diagonal deployment and I get first turn. Chaff up his bus and bring my vampire bus up close. Go for miasma + purple sun on his bus but he double-6 dispels the miasma. So I throw a pit instead of a powerstone+sun and it fails to cast. Oh well.

He then bails out all his characters from the bus into a unit of dogs just outside my field of vision. 6-dices final trans on the bus and I fail to dispel (need a damned scroll). Only a few horsemen die but he takes out the shadow vampire.

My turn I chaff up his new bus with my own dogs, debuff the unit a bit, then throw a purple sun through it. He fails on two dogs and one of his characters. I get no dice back. That’s 3 dead on a unit of 10 though, so he takes a panic check. Rerollable LD9. He rolls an 11 followed by an 11. They run. He needs to go 12” to run off the board. Rolls 6-6-5. 1,200 point bus goes right off the board.

We play another turn or two where my vampire and vargs basically eat half his army before he tires of it and calls the game.


Final Thoughts:

REALLY liking this list. I started Vampires because I wanted to run a killy vampire lord, and now I have two! Vargs are amazing. Death + Shadow is a bit much though. People get really grumpy facing it, and I’m not even convinced it’s that good. I’m thinking shadow + vampires will make my list a bit less fragile. For the monster I’m thinking of dropping the hierotitan and squeezing in a warkitty with breath weapon. I think it’ll give me something that can hold stuff up and mulch the infantry units that my vampires don’t really excel at taking down. Also Lore of Vampires with warkitties is amazing...their big drawback has always been how easy it is to chip wounds off of them, but with Vampires I can put them back on at roughly the same rate.

People were saying I should do death and vampires instead of shadow, but I’m not convinced. I really dislike how death makes you play, and purple sun is just plain the worst way to win a game. A flying blender lord who can toss out purple suns is a surefire way to lose sportsmanship points.
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#11
Ran a paired-down version of this list at a tournament recently. Here are my thoughts, copied from the TK boards HERE.

Vampire Lord (General) : Talisman of Preservation; Ogre Blade; Other Trickster's Shard; Red Fury; Quickblood; Level 4 Wizard; Lore of Vampires; heavy armour; Hellsteed
Vampire Lord: Lance; Dawnstone; Nightshroud; Scroll of Shielding; Red Fury; Quickblood; Level 4 Wizard; Lore of Shadow; heavy armour; Hellsteed

10 Skeleton Horsemen: light armour; Master of Horse; standard bearer

3 Skeleton Chariots (TK) banner of eternal flame

38 Skeleton Warriors (TK)
: Master of Arms; standard bearer

4 Vargheists: Vargoyle
4 Vargheists: Vargoyle

1 Spirit Host
1 Spirit Host

1,999 points


Tournament was a 3-game, one-day charity event. Every game had 3 objectives, one placed by each player in their opponent's half of the board and another in the centre. Each round had some scenarios that counted for VPs, but they didn't really come into play.


Game 1: Dwarfs

First opponent was a (very soft) dwarf list, consisting of three big blocks and a cannon. He went first and fired quarrelers into my bus, killing all but three. Luckily he'd already shot the cannons. Rest of the bus died on the stand-and-shoot, but the vampires survived and that was all that mattered. Vampires took two rounds to chew through one unit, one to chew through the next, and overran into the final with the vargs to polish it off in the same round. Bottom of 2 he had nothing left on the board.

I lost a spirit host and my horsemen, while he lost his entire army plus 3 banners, general, and BSB.

Result: Win (2275 vps to 205 vps), all 3 objectives.


Game 2: Chaos Dwarfs

Beating my first round opponent that hard put me on table 1. No soft list this time. Chaos dwarfs with a big brick of those halberd-guns, 2 hellcannons, 2 pain trains, and a death shrieker.

Long story short, he rolls nothing but hits in his turn 2 shooting phase and rips apart my entire bunker, hellcannon kills one vampire, and second hellcannon almost kills the second (rolled up 1 wound). My vampire kills a pain train and a hellcannon, while my vargs flub against his death shrieker and get ground out when a character charges in to save them.

End of the game I had just my vampire lord left, while he'd lost only a train and a hellcannon.

Result: Loss (1500 VPs to ~600 VPs), no objectives


Game 3: Orcs & Goblins

Another hard list this time. Opponent is running a massive savage orc deathstar (with characters), 4 chariots, and a full compliment of warmachines.

I get first turn and stuff my bus down his throat, hoping that he'd take the bait and charge in with his chariots to save my bus from all of his shooting. He took it and charged in all 4 chariots. They obliterated the bus with impact hits, but the vampires killed all 4 chariots in return before they could even strike. By then my vargs had cleared out most of his warmachines (each charging one top of 2 and overrunning into a second). I chaffed up the savages with a spirit host and an easy overrun into one of my solo vampires, and he couldn't resist. This set me up for a counter-charge in the flank with my second vampire and skeleton warriors, plus chariots in the front.

Vampires knocked out his characters first then red furied into the unit. Chariots rolled like bosses for impact hits. Skeletons did their job and negated ranks and steadfast. By the time the dust cleared I lost my chariots and a few wounds, but my vampires each did 8 wounds, my chariots around 7 impact hits, and I had +7 SCR ontop of that. He didn't roll double ones, and my vampires caught him and ran him down.

In the end I lost my chariots and horsemen, while I got his whole army plus BSB, general, and a banner.

Result: Win (2225 VPs to 355 VPs), all 3 objectives.



Other than the second game things went pretty well for me, all told. Top 10, and better than that if I hadn't eaten a big penalty for having unpainted models (working on it!). First thing I did after my second game was nearly double the size of my bunker (3-wide I can fit 18 models into my deployment zone, so 16+vampires gives 11 wounds before I lose LoS! rolls).

All in all very happy with the list. The dual blender bus is absolutely savage, and 3-wide really mitigates the damage they can take (T5 3+4++ / 2+RR, or a champ they can do 1 wound to). The vargheists support them really well. All I'm missing is a big target to absorb firepower for my bus. I'm thinking a terrorgheist would do a better job of this than a warsphinx would, as much as I love that model.

The other thing I really need is direwolves to screen that bus from shooting.
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#12
Managed another game against a friend with his Warriors of Chaos. To be fair to him it was a Swedish list (comping in at a 12), so he didn't have all the toys.

Roughly speaking, he was running:

General, MoT, demonic steed, 3+4++ reroll 1s, ogre blade
Wizard lord, mounted MoT, level 4 metal, MR(3)

BSB, MoT 2+3++ halberd
Other hero, MoT, 4+3++ GW

2x12 marauder horsemen, MoT, flails

2 units of direwolves

Warshrine

6 skullcrushers



I was running my list from Foodhammer above, plus a terrorgheist, +6 horsemen in the bunker, two units of direwolves, and a casket. Also had to downgrade the second spirit host for a unit of fellbats.



We both set up facing each other. He had (my left to my right), horsemen, all of his characters together in a unit (behind a building), the other horsemen, warshrine, crushers. Dogs behind at either extreme flank.

I was deployed vargheists, vargheists, terrorgheist, bus, skeletons, chariots (also left to right).

Turn 1:

We both vanguard everything we can forward, and I win the roll to go first. I push my dogs into the face of his skullcrushers then push forward with my bus. His character unit has an 11" charge into my bus, but I'm otherwise not afraid of anything he has. Left vargheists move up beside his left horsemen, out of their LoS. The other vargheists move up behind the building, to where they can threaten anything that comes around it.

In magic I raise a unit of zombies to chaff his bus and horsemen.

His turn he charges the crushers to clear out the chaff, then moves his warshrine in front to block their overrun. His left marauder horse moves around the building and he piles all of his characters into it. The other horse moves to where the building blocks them from my rightmost vargheists (but he doesn't see a charge into their flank from my leftmost ones). Dogs try to chaff the vargheists (even experienced tournament players do this constantly...I don't understand. Do they not see the wings?)

Magic he tries to final trans my bus but doesn't roll a 6 for my vampires. Golden hounds does nothing either.

Turn 2:

Vargheists charge the fast cav, and he groans but can't flee or they'll go off the board. Dogs were there to bait their frenzy, but of course I can just declare a charge on something else instead.

Other vargs go into the flank of his warshrine. I realize my terrogheist is blocking my bus from wheeling into the crushers, so I charge it into the warshrine too.

I then move my fellbats up to chaff his character bus.

In combat the vargheists kill half of the horsemen but they're steadfast and hold. Terrorgheist and vargheists do a bunch of wounds to the warshrine but he holds on a 5. Blenders cut the crushers in half but they're steadfast and hold.



Beginning of his turn I pop my potion of strength on my second vampire (making her S8). He's got a tough choice to make, and decides to charge his general out alone into the rear of my bus to generate some CR and maybe save his crushers. He casts +1 to hit on his general and I fail to dispel it. Otherwise his characters move out of the bus to go after my casket (which has been threatening his non-MR units, and he's on tilt now).

He tries to decide between challenging with his crusher champion or his general, and realizes that my vampire would shred him with ASF and OTS. He goes with the crusher champion, and I accept with my lady vampire (to protect her, as she had taken 2 wounds before). She does 10 wounds to him (so 3+max overkill), while my other vampire does 4 wounds to the remaining crushers. His general does charge+rear+5 wounds, but it's not enough. Crusher standard breaks and explodes, general breaks and gets away from my pursuit. He flees through the horsemen though, who break.

Turn 3:

And now it's my turn. Fellbats who were chaffing the bus before now have a lovely charge into the rear of his general. He rolls poorly for his flee roll and they catch him no sweat. Everything else moves up to wipe up the remainder.

Vargheists finally finish up the horsemen.


His turn his horsemen don't rally and flee. His remaining heroes charge through my casket off the table. Vargheists finish off his horsemen (finally) and turn to face his dogs.

Turn 4:

Vargs crush the dogs, fellbat catches the horsemen, everything else moves to crush his heroes when they come back on the table.


Result: Win



Unfortunate game for my opponent. I think his big mistake was being too cautious with his bus, and by the time he realized it was too late. He was concerned that I outranged him, but all of my hurt was in CC and I'm not sure that was as much of an issue as he was afraid.

The vargs also gave him nightmares, since their threat range is so huge. He was concerned about avoiding one unit but played right into the hands of the other.

All in all I was very happy with the way this army worked. The bus is savage and afraid of nothing. Everything else is mean and works well in tandem. Huge fan.
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#14
Awesome with all the battlereports!
Thanks, man!

Had another one last night. This time against Karl Franz Ascended!

I'll post my actual list this time:

Vampire Lord (General) : Talisman of Preservation; Ogre Blade; Other Trickster's Shard; Red Fury; Quickblood; Level 4 Wizard; Lore of Vampires; heavy armour; Hellsteed
Vampire Lord (Lady Vampire): Lance; Dawnstone; Nightshroud; Scroll of Shielding; Red Fury; Quickblood; Level 2 Wizard; Lore of Undeath; heavy armour; Hellsteed

16 Skeleton Horsemen: light armour; Master of Horse; standard bearer
3 Skeleton Chariots (TK) banner of eternal flame
38 Skeleton Warriors (TK): Master of Arms; standard bearer
5 Direwolves

4 Vargheists: Vargoyle
4 Vargheists: Vargoyle

1 Spirit Host
2 Fellbats

1 Terrorgheist
1 Casket


2,497 points


His list was:
KFA
Level 4 heavens, scroll, on foot
BSB, GW, 1+rerollable, mounted
Master engineer.

14 inner circle knights, FC, steel standard
2x5 knights
10 archers

4 demis
1x hellblaster
2x cannon



We roll up Battle for the Pass, but it doesn't really matter since we both deploy along the line anyways. There's a big piece of impassable on the line in the middle of my deployment zone, but otherwise no terrain that matters.

He deploys:
Cannon, knights, KFA, knights, big knights+BSB (hellblaster and wizard bunker behind), demis (other cannon behind with ME).


I deploy vargheists, casket behind impassable, vampire bus (impassable to flank), dogs (spirit host and fellbats behind), skeleton warriors. vargheists (chariots behind...no room).

TURN 1:

He wins first turn and shuffles forward a bit. Looks like I'm coming to him. KFA moves forward to where he has an easy charge on my bus. Shooting and magic all target my terrorgheist and do a combined total of 2 wounds. Man I love that thing. I literally don't expect it to do anything beyond soak up fire, and it's amazing at it.


My turn I measure out KFA's arc. If I move the bus 18" I can get out of his vision, so I'd need to vanhels. Move up as far as I can. Terrorgheist lands between KFA and the bus (but out of his arc) to scream at him and block a portion of the flank. Now all I need is either raise dead or ryze, and I'm golden. Three spells to save the bus. Everything else just moves up, skeleton warriors covering the bus.

Magic I start off with two dice casket at KFA, not realizing that he has a 2++ against magic. Urgh. Should have targetted his cannons. I then split up my remaining dice between vanhels, raise dead, and ryze, and he rolls really high and dispels two and scrolls the final one. Urgh...spread myself too thin.

Terrorgheist screams at KFA and does didly.

Turn 2
So here's my plan. I've put myself within like 10" of his big knight bus. No way are they not charging in. I figure that both them and KFA go in. Blenders make way to where KFA can't reach them. He challenges, champion accepts, and I go to town on the unit hoping to break him on CR.

Then I look down and realize that my General is sitting on the flank with his dick waiving in the wind. Shhhhhhhhhhit.

Pop potion of strength. KFA hits general in the flank, knight bus in the front. It's all or nothing. Shooting kills 2 chariots and my casket, but a bystander points out that the cannon couldn't see so it kills two vargheists instead (phew...explosion did a whack of damage).

His magic phase he rolls up 11 to 5. 5 dice at bubbled harmonic...goes off and I let it. 6 dice at iceshard on my vampire bus and he IF's it. FUCK. Now the math has really gone against me.

Combat starts and he humms and haws...then decides not to challenge with anyone. Neither do I. It's all on the vampires now.

Start with my general. Needing 5s to hit with a reroll (4+ -1), then 2s to wound. Roll 5 attacks...no hits. Reroll...3 hits. All of them wound. He ward saves all...but OTS. Reroll fails 3.

Red fury 3 more. No hits...but reroll gets 2. He ward saves one...but fails on the reroll.

4 wounds left.

Second vampire goes. She hits once first pass, two more on the second. All 3 wound. He ward saves all of them...but fails 2 on the OTS.

2 wounds left, 2 red fury attacks. Neither hits. Both hit on the reroll. Both wound. He ward saves both....and fails both on the reroll.

...



...


...



...




Achievement Unlocked: Kill Karl Franz Ascended in Close Combat!!

Booyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Oh man was that tense. We roll up KFA's attacks just to see and he does indeed kill both my vampires in one go. Jesus. The knights go to town on my bus (though lady vampire's nightshroud helps some), and I lose combat by a couple and crumble.

Elsewhere my terrogheist was fighting some knights and took a couple wounds, dogs that I'd chaffed his demis with die a horrible death.

My turn skeletons go into the flank of the knights, spelling their doom. Spirit host fails to get into the demis. Fellbats go into his wizard bunker, and vargheists janky-charge his hellblaster to overrun into the bunker. Other vargheists charge his cannon.

Magic I raise zombies to chaff the demis some more, casket off the ME and panic the last remaining cannon. Terrorgheist screams off the knights he's in contact with and reforms.

Combat my lady vampire gets into a tickle fight with his BSB (who can't use his GW, because nightshroud). Blender goes to town on the bus. Skeletons break steadfast and they flee, though I fail to catch him. Vargheists murder the hellblaster and overrun into the bunker, murdering them.

With his demis chaffed and everything else dead or fleeing he calls the game.

Result: massive win for the Undead Legions.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#16
Hahaha would have loved to see his face when Karl went down. That OTS means everything.
Oh man it was legendary. Only three games going on at the club so I had like 5 or 6 observers at that point. Everyone thought I was totally fucked. Everyone cheered when KFA went down (he's not a fan favourite...), and the empire player was so pissed.

Vampires rolled like bosses though. We rolled it out a couple more times based on different challenges and I couldn't have done it any other way. Nasty, nasty business. I think if I hadn't screwed up with placement in the unit I'd have been fine, but as it stood I was in dire straights.

Loving that double blender bus, though. I'm not afraid of anything in the game with it. I don't think I'd risk myself quite that heavily again, but oh man was it epic.


Had I not screwed up my plan was to tank KFA with either the bus or the champion, then just lay both blenders into the unit. Then on my turn charge the skeletons in, challenge with THEIR champion, and try to pop KFA on combat res.

Charge + flank + 3 ranks + banner + vampire kills

vs

Flank + BSB + KFA kills

I think I beat him by enough to break him, then hopefully run him down with the bus.
 
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
187
#18
Ya, I had to look it up to be sure, but if they are going to make him so big and scary they were going to make sure he didn't die to CR
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#19
Weeeeell that's just bullshit. TO sent out an email stating that "due to negative player feedback" they will NO LONGER be allowing End Times content, including the Legions lists. Grrrrr.

Thus back to the drawing board. I've been so enjoying the mobility of this list that I think I'm going to try and build something very similar:

Vampire Lord: Nightshroud; Dawnstone; Potion of Strength; Scroll of Shielding; Red Fury; Quickblood; Level 4 Wizard; Lore of Shadow; lance; heavy armour; Hellsteed 551
Vampire Lord: Ogre Blade; Talisman of Preservation; The Other Trickster's Shard; Red Fury; Quickblood; Level 4 Wizard; shield; heavy armour; Hellsteed 544

39 Skeleton Warriors: Banner of Eternal Flame; Skeleton Champion; musician; standard bearer 235
40 Skeleton Warriors: Skeleton Champion; musician; standard bearer 230
5 Dire Wolves 40
5 Dire Wolves 40
5 Dire Wolves 40
5 Dire Wolves 40

4 Vargheists: Vargoyle 194
4 Vargheists: Vargoyle 194
13 Black Knights: Banner of Swiftness; lances; Hell Knight; musician; standard bearer 344
1 Spirit Host45

2,497 points


So I lose the terrorgheist, the casket, the chariots, and the fellbats. I gain an extra unit of skeleton warriors (with banner of eternal flame), my bus gets +1T +1AS and +1 movement with the banner of swiftness. I also gain 3 units of direwolves.


I decided to drop barding from the BK to save points and bump myself up to M9. Since I'm running the bus in "lance" formation anyways I feel like this won't be much of an issue. Since I'm building my "black knights" out of Tomb Kings horsemen they're not going to be WYSIWYG barded anyways (though I could easily get away with this, I feel).



Things I'm not sure about:

1) not barding the BK, of course. I'd have to cut a spirit host or a wizard level off the VL to get it.

2) Vargheists vs. Terrorgheist. I've found that there's generally enough targets for one unit of vargheists to earn double its points back, but that starts stretching with two. With Shadow it might work better, but without I'm not sure how viable they are. The terrorgheist is also a huge fire magnet, though I never actually expect it to kill anything.

3) The lore on my second wizard. I'm thinking Vampires and Undeath might be a better combination, which might let me raise up all those units that I'm missing (chariots, extra spirit hosts, a casket, a terrorgheist, etc.). However I don't like having no additional buffs / debuffs. I'm thinking Shadow or Death might be a better buy, but I'm not sold.


SHADOW:
Pro: mind razor to put lightsabers on my vargheists, miasma to get rerolls on demon princes with vampires or push heroes into hitting vampires on 5s territory. Withering is a very solid debuff that adds another RiP threat (with Curse of Years). Pit of Shades is great long-range removal for warmachines and the like. Less shitty than Purple Sun against stuff like Ogres, Saurus, etc.
Con: high casting cost, requires level 4 and has no way to guarantee enough dice to justify that

DEATH:
Pro:
D&D and Soulblight are amazing spells. Death snipes on an M9 bus are also very solid. Purple Sun will wreck ogres. D&D is nice when very little in my army breaks steadfast. Alright as a supplemental lore on a level 2
Con: Winning games with Purple Sun is shitty, and I actually really feel that death is a gigantic crutch lore.

UNDEATH:
Pro:
extra chaff raising with multiple spells, which wins games. Can raise up the things I'm missing in this list (casket, terrorgheist, chariots, etc.)
Con: high casting cost, no good buffs/debuffs, requires loads of models that I may not have ready

DOUBLE VAMPIRES:
Pro:
two cracks at Invoc, all the LoV spells (I'm actually quite a fan of the whole lore)
Con: no access to the extended toolkit of another lore.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#20
Ran the above list at open club day today. Got 3 games in, all with the same list on shadow. Thoughts below:

Game 1 - Ogres

First up is a game against my buddy with his ogres. He hasn't played them in a while so a little rusty. His deployment was, my left-to-right:

3 mournfang, cat, cat, 5 leadbelchers with hellheart char, 3 more mournfang, gutstar with BSB and slaughtermaster on heavens, ironblaster behind, 5 more leadbelchers, 20 gnoblar trappers


I deployed dogs, vargheists, spirit host, bus, skeletons, more dogs, skeletons across from the bulk of his army, then vargheists and more dogs way out on the right flank with the leadbelchers and trappers.


Long story short I got first turn, chaffed everything up, then pushed my bus and vargheists far forward. He hellhearts and smashes my BK bus down to 4 models. Luckily he decides not to put a cannon through my vampires and kills some vargs instead. Everything charges to clear out chaff and his mournfang run in front of my bus.

Now I have a problem. I could charge my bus into the mournfang, but they'll smash them and leave me open for a charge from the gutstar. Charge my vampire alone into the gutstar and I'm not sure if I win that since he has +4 SCR on me. I decide to clear out the mournfang then chaff up the gutstar with Raise Dead.

He scrolls it though, and goes into the bus. Sabretusk that I didn't see tags my lady vampire who was on the flank, and now she can't make way. VL kills 9 guys but 12 S6 irongut attacks kill him and the unit dies to combat res.

Elsewhere one vargheist unit murders the leadbelchers with the hellheart, while the other unit bounces off a smaller unit of leadbelchers.

RESULT: major loss

Looking back I was way too cavalier with the bus. Also need to be more careful about placement of the vampires, where they can get caught by flank charges.

Not a huge fan of shadow either.

Game 2 - High Elves
Game against a new guy in the club. His list was 4 boltthrowers, 2 units of reavers, 2 skycutters...

...and 60 archers with a BSB (banner of the world dragon), an archmage (beasts), two level 2s on high (one with ring of khaine or whatever), a general with +3S sword, and another character with some sort of no armour save sword.

I'm figuring I pincer that with vargheists then smash it with the bus. My OB vampire goes into skeletons since he's useless against that deathstar.

Boltthrowers go to town on my BK bus though, killing all but 3. On my turn I put both vargs into what I thought was the flank, but one is in the front. Bus goes into the front as well, but ALL THREE BLACK KNIGHTS fail their DT check. VL goes in alone.

It's at this point that I learn his unit has a 3++ from all the high magic spells he's been casting. He ward saves basically all the wounds caused by the vargheists and vampire lord, and I crumble to static combat res. Rest of the game is spent chaffing the big bus and killing his boltthrowers and skycutters, as I should have done from the beginning. Argh!

RESULT: major loss

Thoughts: shouldn't have been in such a rush to charge that unit. I had pit of shades and could have spent 3 turns shredding his shooting and miasma+pitting his big unit until a better chance to charge in arose, all while chaffing him up. Oh well.

Game 3: Warriors

Game 3 is against the same warriors player I've been spanking around for a long while. However he got a whole bunch more practice games in against vampires and came equipped to redeem himself. He was running:

general, GW, demon steed, 1+RR 3++
another lord, GW, demon steed, 3+3++
BSB, disc, 1+4++ reroll ones.

level 4 on metal with the skull of katam

15 marauder horsemen
9 marauder horsemen
5 foresaken

3 crushers, std mus ensorcelled weapons
3 crushers, std mus lances

warshrine



Comps in at a swedish 12. Compared to my swedish ~6. Nasty list.


He deploys everything roughly in the middle, and I fake him out and deploy my bus and vargheists on the right. I get turn 1, push forward, chaff his crushers.

His turn he final transes the bus, clears out chaff with his crushers. Kills a few BK but no vampires.

Bus and vargs go into the crushers. I mindrazor my vargheists and miasma his other unit of crushers for 2 (who are in easy overrun for both units). Other vargs fail a LD10 stupid check though.

So this is where I actually lose the game. I'm thinking that either mindrazor or miasma (makes vargs strike simo or before crushers) will draw out his dice. He lets both go through, and points out that I don't actually have an overrun angle to his second crushers to the bus because I chaffed myself by a hair with my spirit host. Crap! He then uses all his dice to dispel Raise Dead, which I was goign to use to chaff up all his characters.


The vargs tear through both units of skullcrushers, while the BK bus reforms to face the characters. He charges all three into the front, even though I pop my potion of strength. Vampires kill his BSB but his other characters tank all my attacks with ward saves and rerollable armour saves. Argh.

Skeletons fail a 10" charge into his warshrine elsewhere, which lets him charge into the flank of my bus. That plus the grinding eventually takes out my bus.

However I manage to catch his level 4 with the vargheists who cleaned up the two units of crushers, and knock out the non-general 3++ guy with skeletons (champ challenges, horse kicks him to death, win by 4, run him down). Other vargs clean up his other horsemen unit.

Bottom of 6 I lose my second skeleton unit, which takes the game from a draw to a minor win in his favour.





Final Thoughts:

So the bus is a lot more fragile than I thought. It really relies upon getting the charge to get two turns of my lady vampire at S7/8 wrecking face. Not such a fan of that. At S5 she's kind of weak sauce. Not sure what to do about that, since I'm really not a fan of her without ASF and S6 just isnt enough. Also nonmagic attacks are nice.

Also 3+ saves on the knights just werent enough. I was rolling a lot of saves against S5 and noticing a looooot of 4s coming up, which were dead knights that shouldnt have been dead.


I'm thinking that I drop a wizard level from the VL to buy barding on the knights, and swap her from Shadow to Undeath. It's a slightly cheaper lore, with more options for board control. Also fits my theme of everything "rising from the sands".
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#21
New List:

Lady Vampire (Undeath) (Vampire Lord)
: Potion of Strength; Nightshroud; Dawnstone; Red Fury; Quickblood; Level 3 Wizard; Lore of Undeath; lance; shield; heavy armour; Hellsteed 504
General (Vampire Lord): Ogre Blade; Talisman of Preservation; The Other Trickster's Shard; Red Fury; Quickblood; Level 4 Wizard; shield; heavy armour; Hellsteed 544

41 Skeleton Warriors: Banner of Eternal Flame; Skeleton Champion; musician; standard bearer 245
40 Skeleton Warriors: Skeleton Champion; musician; standard bearer 230
5 Dire Wolves 40
5 Dire Wolves 40
5 Dire Wolves 40
5 Dire Wolves 40

13 Black Knights: Banner of Swiftness; barding; lances; Hell Knight; musician; standard bearer 383
4 Vargheists: Vargoyle 194
4 Vargheists: Vargoyle 194
1 Spirit Host 45

2,499 points
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
4
#22
I like it. I wish I could tell you what I was thinking of bringing to Gottacon, but then you would tell your friends and I would lose the surprise ;)
 

Mikael.K

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
2,643
#23
Nice touch with the potion of strength there, keeps her rocking for another round. Intresting to see how your list fares :)
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#24
Nice touch with the potion of strength there, keeps her rocking for another round. Intresting to see how your list fares :)
Thanks :)

The potion of strength is key, and two VLs can mulch just about anything with two high-S rounds of attacking. However when the bus GETS charged, and she only has the one turn, I've found that she kind of struggles.

Thus Undeath. I'm hoping to use those additional cracks at raising chaff to ensure that the bus gets to charge things it wants to. Also to raise up some additional support pieces (flaming chariots, hexwraiths, etc.) that I lose when switching out of Undead Legions. If I can raise up my terrorgheist then even better (though it won't be painted, so will have to hide when the painting judges come by :tongue:)
 
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