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TVC II OOC Restarting the TVC II - A Suggestion

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Disciple of Nagash

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#1
So I know a few have hopes that now I have managed to finally drag myself out of my pit (of shame :redface:) that the TVC II could be restarting.

However I also know many of the members who joined in have given up hope and left, many of us have completely forgotten what has happened etc.

Now I don't want to ignore the hard work already put in, but what are people's thoughts around a completely fresh start. Players can decide to use their existing characters already, or choose new ones.

I think maybe wish a fresh reboot it might give the boost needed to really work?
 

Ordo Cruentus

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#2
I am cool with either. Though, I was never actually added to the last game, so I suppose my opinion wouldn't matter as much as the veteran players.

I will say though, that if the game is restarted, or continues as is, I would still like to join the game as Rosa.

Got a fondness for the girl. ;)
 

The Dread King

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#4
I wouldn't want to reboot. I think if anyone reused their old characters and there was a reboot, people might (without noticing) put their pre-emption's of those characters' actions in the role-play, which could ruin it a bit.
That said, I had Morty do some things which I now regret and wish I was able to change in the early chapters.*

I believe that everyone will be happy to return if given the chance, though I do think that more new players - might - flock to the TVC II if the TVC II is rebooted. I personally don't want to erase all the glorious RPing I and others have done here, and I do think that almost everyone who posted in chapters 4 and 5 will be back soon after you reboot the TVC II. They've all shown signs of activity in the OOC thread for this RP recently.

What I mean by pre-emption is that our characters might not do silly (but RP-wise, enjoyable) things because the RPers know what the IC consequences are. This could make the RP slightly boring. When I started the TVC II, I really enjoyed it because it was new. I wouldn't enjoy so much the re-hashing and retconning of old content. I would feel like I was god-modding the entire role-play. For instance, I might now be tempted to play a more reserved Morturion because of the ward power that the Carsteins have -- which would be less exciting, because his annoying presence is meant to get a pleasantly large (to write and to read) reaction out of other characters.

There would be fewer surprises at the start of the RP if the start was the same (would it be the same? Would it start as a meeting in Drakenhof?).

I personally think that the only main change that needs to be made to the TVC II is that you might want to introduce mini-GMs, DoN, to micro-manage some action in your absence.

DoN, you could put a notice on the forum saying that the TVC was becoming active again and that now is the time to join it. That might garner some players. But I do think that an entire reboot would gather more players: it would just slightly annoy me, amongst others of the old role-playing bunch to frequent the TVC.

Overall, I would accept a reboot of the TVC, as certain characters are missing, but I think it might be less satisfying, depending on how it started, than just re-booting the action of the current RP.
tl;dr
I would be opposed to a reboot, though not strongly.

Edit: *These things include actions without knowledge of the proper lore which I now have. They also include contradictory posts about Morturion's forces.

Edit 2: DoN, maybe you might want to check who is still interested in continuing in the TVC II before considering whether to do a simple reboot of the action or a full role-play restart. This could be used as an interest thread, I suppose. Then you can see how many still want to role-play in the TVC II.
 

Count Darvaleth

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#5
I agree with Dready on the pre-formed opinions issue - also it could become very hard to keep track of what did/didn't happen, and in general doesn't help with immersion. Simply retconning what has happened wouldn't help, I feel, as attractive as the fully clean slate might seem.

However, I agree with the general need for some kind of fresh start/rejuvenation. What I would suggest is a big advertising push, saying that things are getting back into gear. This would give people time to write characters and have them approved (and *definitely* set up some sort of committee to help approval of characters & subplots run smoother) while we quickly finish up with our current chapters and have some sort of a fresh meeting, where the new characters can slot in.

This new meeting will probably have more direction, given what our group will probably discover in The Wastes, so we can get really stuck in to the juicy interplay and politics of how to combat the threat that *might* (it's never over 'till DoN sings!) exist.

What are people's thoughts on that?
 

Get of W'soran

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#6
I'm happy either way.

I wouldn't mind a reboot though as I'm not sure if Ill be able to get back into my characters after the long break

But as I said, ill be here either way.
 

Kavok

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#7
I'm fine with either option as well. Likely if there is a restart I'll either play my knight again, or maybe an actual blood dragon... depends on how many of them are really made this time, cause there were a lot when I made my character (though I think many of them later changed their bloodline). But if we are just going to continue I'm fine with that as well. You'll just have to cut me some slack (like I'm sure we'll all have to do for most people) when my character acts a bit weird as I get back into his character.
 
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#8
I'm all for restarting, since I really didn't like what I was doing in the beginning looking back on it now, but really I'm fine with either.
 

Lynks

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#9
I don't mind either way, I kinda wrote myself into a hole with my character in that there wasn't anywhere for tVH to really fit in, but i'd probably still just play him again if there was a re-boot :tongue:

one option would be to simply bring out the big guns and have some massive plot shaping event take a bunch of characters out of action and allow space for new ones and wipe the slate clean without getting a new slate all together- plus it could drive the story for a while.

Dary- but if we have a council assessing things we'll need a council to assess that council, and then we get trapped in an endless cycle of bureaucracy!
 

The Dread King

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#11
About this council idea -- I think we need not so much a character & subplot approval system but mini-GMs micromanaging the action under DoN when he is too busy to do so, so that he can focus on introducing characters and subplots into the RP properly and dealing with the overarching plot of the TVC II. This has been discussed before in the mini-GMs thread. Perhaps we should start discussing this in there again.

Among others, I made a few mistakes (RPwise) early in the RP that I might want to correct (e.g. the size of the force Morty brought to the council meeting. Info has been contradictory on this for a while). Maybe changes for corrections for past mistakes could be sent to DoN or a mini-GM, and they could be edited into the RP? This would clear up matters of confusion and give a simple revival of the current RP the same advantages as a 'clean slate' would without bearing the disadvantages of a fresh start.

Bringing out the big guns in some way is a good idea, but this must be done without repeating the bringing out of the big guns that has happened before in this RP. The skaven battle brought out the big guns several times. Another full-blown battle instantly might be a bit overbearing for the RP. That's not to say the big guns can't be brought out in another, more imaginative way than a chaos attack, though. Whatever ideas we have for that, I wouldn't recommend putting them here (because if they were chosen as part of the TVC II plot, they would be massive spoilers). I'd recommending PMing such ideas to DoN -- or would it be better to have open discussion on this? I have some ideas and I'm ready to take either option. I'm just waiting for the go-ahead (that we need to think up some 'big guns' ideas to restart the action in the TVC II).

I think the structural stuff (e.g. mini-GMs, or Darvy's subplot board idea) should be dealt with before recruitment drives, and recruitment should be dealt with before the IC relaunches. Better to fix the problems causing activity before trying to find IC solutions - so that these problems cannot recur so easily and degrade the quality of the IC action again. Recruitment should be dealt with before the IC relaunch because in my experience, new players would rather enter an RP at a static point where they can get used to their IC surroundings, rather than jumping straight into the action in the middle of a complicated plot sequence.

Perhaps we should start a poll (for both players looking to join the TVC II, and players who've already taken part in the TVC II) for whether someone wants a 'clean slate' RP or a relaunch of activity more (or whether they wouldn't mind either). This would be the most democratic solution, and it would be the most likely to appease the playerbase for the TVC II. Happy Playerbase = High Quality Roleplay. But DoN may want to leave the type of RP relaunch to his own discretion. Regardless of the potential benefits of such a poll, I'm leaving the decision to start it or not to his discretion.

I agree with Darvy that we should put up large numbers of advertisements on the forum for the TVC II. Perhaps Lynks 'big guns' idea could be briefly described in the advertisements alongside OOC invitations, to show that things were changing dramatically IC and that now is the time to enter the TVC II. The question of when the advertisements are put up is an interesting one. Should they be put up now? Or when the structural work on the TVC II is complete? Or only after the plot-changing idea is sorted out? Or when the action has actually restarted? What do you think?

Getting back into character will be hard, but we should be fine after a few posts each. After all, it's not the first time this has happened in the TVC II and getting back into character has been managed well before in this RP after periods of inactivity such as this one.
 

Count Darvaleth

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#12
Definitely agree that the instruments/machinery needs to be set up before we jump back into the roleplay - TVC is just too large-scale to run properly without assistance.

My suggestion would be a small team of three-four, who between them can cover character review & subplot confirmation, and GMing chapters. The GMs would be provided with a summary of the plot that DoN wants to cover in the chapter, and perhaps have the chapter set up/closed by DoN if necessary, but would otherwise GM independently. For particularly important or plot-delicate areas, DoN would GM as per usual.

We love you DoN, and we love TVC - it's your baby, your story, but that shouldn't mean you have to sift through endless subplots and GM every last chapter when RL is heavy! :thumbsup:
 

Simon von Carstein

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#13
I don't mind a reboot or at least a ret con of some of the earlier chapters. I was too nice in them and a bit out of character. Also some of them got a bit ridiculous and unbelievable.
 

Harland

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#16
I am in accordance with the people who favour a revitalisation rather than a complete restart. I feel it would be much better to preserve the rping that has gone on so far and simply fill in new characters on the story (it's not even that much to fill in - they don't really need to know all the ins and outs of what has happened so far) than start right from the beginning.

First things first (after deciding mini-GMs etc), we need to find out how many of the original characters are still around/still want to participate. Then we can decide whether simply a new "meeting" will suffice, or whether we need an excuse to remove a number of inactive characters from the roleplay (a large battle, an assassin strike, something like that).
 

The Dread King

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#17
whether we need an excuse to remove a number of inactive characters from the roleplay (a large battle, an assassin strike, something like that).
Preferably not just a straight-up battle or a meeting; we've had quite a few of those in the RP recently. If it's a battle, it should be something like an "advance to the rear" because of a surprise chaos assault, or an assassin strike - or something of the kind, I have in mind a few ideas - to keep variety in the RP's content.

And should we discuss these "assassin strike/other" ideas here or just PM them to DoN? I imagine some of us have quite a few interesting ones in mind, but if they were chosen, it might be a bit of a spoiler to discuss them here before they were implemented. However, if they weren't discussed here, it would add more to DoN's already-huge workload and not leave them open to improvement by the community. I'm not entirely sure what to do here, but I suppose we don't have to worry about it until after the GM issue is dealt with anyway. Speaking of which, wouldn't it be a good idea to discuss this in the mini-GMs thread, which contains pages of discussion on how mini-GMs might be implemented, and polls for suggesting suitable mini-GM candidates? I'm just saying that it's a resource out there which we would do well to fully appreciate.

BTW, I would also stand for being a mini-GM, but only because I do not know if many of the more experienced RPers in the TVC II would be so happy with being mini-GMs themselves. Of course, if there are enough (3-5 people, I would imagine) experienced RPers (e.g. GoW, Darvy, Shareya and Archy) that sign up for being mini-GMs, I will gladly retract this offer.
 

Get of W'soran

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#18
Preferably not just a straight-up battle or a meeting; we've had quite a few of those in the RP recently. If it's a battle, it should be something like an "advance to the rear" because of a surprise chaos assault, or an assassin strike - or something of the kind, I have in mind a few ideas - to keep variety in the RP's content.

And should we discuss these "assassin strike/other" ideas here or just PM them to DoN? I imagine some of us have quite a few interesting ones in mind, but if they were chosen, it might be a bit of a spoiler to discuss them here before they were implemented. However, if they weren't discussed here, it would add more to DoN's already-huge workload and not leave them open to improvement by the community. I'm not entirely sure what to do here, but I suppose we don't have to worry about it until after the GM issue is dealt with anyway. Speaking of which, wouldn't it be a good idea to discuss this in the mini-GMs thread, which contains pages of discussion on how mini-GMs might be implemented, and polls for suggesting suitable mini-GM candidates? I'm just saying that it's a resource out there which we would do well to fully appreciate.

BTW, I would also stand for being a mini-GM, but only because I do not know if many of the more experienced RPers in the TVC II would be so happy with being mini-GMs themselves. Of course, if there are enough (3-5 people, I would imagine) experienced RPers (e.g. GoW, Darvy, Shareya and Archy) that sign up for being mini-GMs, I will gladly retract this offer.
I'm with Dready on this, I'd prefer an Assassin Strike type event rather than a battle. However, to make it fair on the people who might want to come back but have temporarily given up because of forum inactivity perhaps we shouldn't have them killed. Maybe some sort of assassination that is stopped by the rest of the council, the severely injured targets are then sent to Drakenhof under the care of the von Carstein Empire for healing. That way if the players ever return they can have their characters come back and join the council.

I'm happy to help out with the whole mini-gm idea if people want, I think a poll would be fair to let the community decide (I don't know about others but I wouldn't be happy taking up that position unless I felt at least some of the players supported it).
 

Count Darvaleth

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#19
An assassination strike would fit well with Tzeentch - we think we're sneaking up but in the end they knew we were there from the start.
 

Ordo Cruentus

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#20
council, the severely injured targets are then sent to Drakenhof under the care of the von Carstein Empire for healing. That way if the players ever return they can have their characters come back and join the council.
I for one think this is a great idea. An elegant way to have inactive players have a reason to leave, but able to come back.

And besides, the iconic image of a gravely injured vampire being soaked in blood in a coffin to regenerate is just so. damned. cool.
 

The Dread King

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#21
Ah well, people are submitting their ideas, so I might as well submit my idea.

For the group going to Neferata's, the idea is simple. Neferata lives far up north (chaos and norse territory is further north, but not so far away from Neferata's lands). As the group goes to see Neferata, it turns out she's already been swayed to the chaos forces (as one of the more prominent vampires working for them) because she is the nearest bastion of vampiric power near to the huge chaos forces (and thus would be the first target for a chaos assault). She's taken a 'If you can't beat 'em, join 'em' approach to the threat (or maybe she's joined for other/additional reasons). Either way, the Council gets ambushed once they are inside/near the Silver Pinnacle, and the group escapes for [valid plot reason]. E.g. The Nehekharan gods warned Anya that this could be a possibility (they foresaw something) so she beat a hasty retreat. Or maybe the council realise they're about to be betrayed by Silver Pinnacle ambushers because of this and leave just before the planned attack commences, being chased out by silver pinnacle forces on the way.

Either way, they retreat to Drakenhof, maybe with members of the council captured by Neferata/killed/missing in action/severely wounded, and taken back to Drakenhof for treatment. This option would allow DoN to kill off players should he wish, or just move them out of the action for a while as GoW suggests (I support GoW's suggestion about inactive players).

It might be a good idea to send PMs to the current TVC II players notifying them that it is active once more, and asking them whether they want to participate in the action or not. That way, DoN can know for sure whether to kill off a character of an inactive RPer or not.

Chaos forces may have noticed Rowhaine and his group because of how they dealt with the demon influx when they were travelling through the portal. Whilst remaining static at their camp, their leaders would send assassins from the chaos camp to kill the council members in the wastes. Rowhaine might have been warned of this, because the Nehekharan gods would have seen what happened to Anya's council forces and warned him to be on the lookout (leaving council forces just about prepared enough - perhaps the warning could come just prior to the assassination attempt - to escape the assassins). This would give him time to flee (with the council members in the Wastes) to Drakenhof (through another of Nekhlior's portals, or maybe they could try to outrun the assassins - though it would be a long, lethal walk home that would take IC days - though this could be done, what with the Silver Pinnacle group recovering from their wounds for IC days in Drakenhof), but assaults from the assailants would give DoN an excuse to kill off inactive characters (or write them off as 'severely wounded', if an inactive player controlling a character might realistically return at some point).

Or, of course, Rowhaine, upon receiving warning from the Nehekharan gods about the Pinnacle's treachery, could just return to Drakenhof after quickly scouting out the chaos forces, to consolidate council forces. This would probably be a lot simpler; however, it would not give DoN much of an opportunity to kill off/temporarily write off inactive characters in the Wastes, and it would be less of a 'bringing out of the big guns' effects than what Lynks desires.

The one problem I see with an assassin strike is that it can't be drawn out too long, because if the assassins weren't quick about succeeding in killing off all the members of the council in the wastes, and those council members didn't exit too quickly, the chaos forces in the nearby camp would just attack the council themselves, which would abruptly end the matter (and half the playerbase of the RP with it :tongue:)

Assassins for the council could also be sent from the silver pinnacle, bearing in mind that the events of the wastes chapter take place almost a day after the events of the Neferata chapter.

And a question arises from a 'bringing out the big guns' event such as this one: how much knowledge about the camp should Igor be able to gain before the assassination attempt? It depends how much information DoN wants to reveal about the camp, but something should be revealed (seeing as Igor has already observed the camp for some time in IC -- the hidden one just hasn't been able to describe it, seeing as only DoN knows its specifics at the moment).

Of course, the entire post above is only one idea -- the ruminations of an RPer who hasn't been able to participate IC in the TVC II for quite some time and eagerly awaits doing so again. xD
 

Harland

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#22
I'm with Dready on this, I'd prefer an Assassin Strike type event rather than a battle. However, to make it fair on the people who might want to come back but have temporarily given up because of forum inactivity perhaps we shouldn't have them killed. Maybe some sort of assassination that is stopped by the rest of the council, the severely injured targets are then sent to Drakenhof under the care of the von Carstein Empire for healing. That way if the players ever return they can have their characters come back and join the council.
This is why I suggest we do a thorough interest check before deciding the best way forward. And if someone ever changes their mind and wants to come back, there are plenty of excuses for reintroducing them - this is The Vampire Council after all.

As for mini-GMs, I guess I volunteer as well, given that I did a bit of gm-ing in chapter 5 to pass the time (the story arc with Wolfy).

EDIT: Sorry, I missed your post Morty.

The reason I like an assassin strike is that it can be done quickly and succinctly. The whole event could be done in a single post by DoN or another GM. Then the "survivors" could post a short bit about how they prevailed, then from then on it's the aftermath and on to the reboot "meeting".

EDIT 2: Yes I'm referring to you as Morty, it feels more natural.
 
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Get of W'soran

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#23
In work so I can't post for long but I like the idea of the assassination strike because they are quick. I'd rather a clean simple take on it to clean up the playerbase and then we can just move the story on.

I'd prefer all the assassins were Tzeentch in origin as well, show the enemies competence in knowing even about the council forces sent to Nefereta.

Of course Harland makes a good point, we should have a poll to see who's about first.
 

Disciple of Nagash

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#24
:scared:

Lots of replies.....but that's good, we still have a high amount of interest.

So based on what has been said
  • Large percentage want to continue, some don't mind, low interest in restarting.
  • Everyone agrees for an RP this size I need a supporting team to ensure that should RL drag me off once more, we can continue. I think we also need to allow the same system we had previously as well, where we can nominate another player we feel understands our character to RP them in our absence if they are critical to the plot (for example Rowhaine is a main driving character, so I may need someone to control him should I disappear).
  • Planning section, restricted access to GM team showing future plot points etc
So I am beginning to have a plan in mind. As I am at work I'll post it up later and then we can all see what we think.
 
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#25
I'd like to join in at some point, unfortunately I tried to do so just as your real life was kicking in.

That said, to join with Lady Nightchill, I really need Shareya onboard. So I'll need to see if she's still around.
 
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