Legion of Nagash Rules development thread: The Body and Spirit of Nagash
- Thread starter Avaris
- Start date
-
The masquerade of murder returns! A new game of Vampires Amongst Us has begun. Unmask the killers, trust no one, and try to survive the night. Find out more and sign up now!
I think the rules look good, but I am also going to runaway and hide in a corner about his points cost. But i agree with marcus that it would be around 1000ish.
Ah... I'll print off his rules and do them while I have no other links to the internet (i.e 2 weeks).
I am procrastinating faster!
I am procrastinating faster!
Marcus Von Drac
Vampire Thrall
Lol, thank you Arion, we were waiting.
Strange coincidence, I am also disapperaing for 2 weeks after today with no Access to the internet. can't beat Ireland for a holiday
Strange coincidence, I am also disapperaing for 2 weeks after today with no Access to the internet. can't beat Ireland for a holiday
Over 1200 new posts... ouch.
Nagash costs 1238pts.
Rounded down to 1235pts.
Thats including the 16 Guards.
Nagash costs 1238pts.
Rounded down to 1235pts.
Thats including the 16 Guards.
So if you dropped it down to 11 guards (11-30 unit size, as per previous discussion)... then you could get something like 1200 even.
Seems "reasonable" too me (as in, OMG.. but really, what'd you expect
)
Seems "reasonable" too me (as in, OMG.. but really, what'd you expect
)
Kaladas Harkon
Wight King
Personally I'd rather take old Kroak over this guy for about the same points cost, but he's reasonable.
Kaladas Harkon
Wight King
Yeah, but they can't do anything in CC if they can't get there. Having a 7600-year-old undead toad firing anywhere up to 7 of the best spells of the rulebook lores with his six power dice (plus the pool) at a +2 to cast, you won't be getting anywhere near CC.
They tested old Kroak against three of each greater Daemon; two Great Unclean Ones and a Keeper survived.
They tested old Kroak against three of each greater Daemon; two Great Unclean Ones and a Keeper survived.
Nagash may not be the powerhouse that Kroak is, however is much more versatile and works in better synergy with the army.
Kaladas Harkon said:
Technically an empire swordsman could do this, its just unlikely. These tests are subjective to luck.
Ok, so now we have:
The Body and Spirit of Nagash - 1200pts
Nagash is a Lord and a Rare choice and must be the army general.
The Nagash special character consists of two models; the Spirit and the Body, which deploy at the same time but can operate independently during the game. Note the Spirit is considered separate at the start of the game and no wounds need sacrificing for it to leave Nagash's body.
The Body
The withered form of the Master of Necromancers sits upon his throne, borne aloft by his most loyal servants; the Pinnacle Guard. They serve him in death as they did in life, and will forever serve their lord.
The unit consists of 1 Body of Nagash model (which counts as the four models it displaces for rank purposes) and 11 Pinnacle Guard equipped with GW, HW, Heavy Armour & Shields.
Body of Nagash - M * / WS - / BS - / S - / T 6 / W 7 / I - / A - / Ld -
Pinnacle Guard - M 4 / WS 4 / BS 0 / S 4 / T 4 / W 1 / I 2 / A 1 / L6
* The body moves along with the Pinnacle Guard at their standard rate. If 4 or less Pinnacle Guard are left the unit cannot move.
Equipment
Black Armour of Nagash
The Ninth Book of Nagash
The Staff of Power
Options:
Additional Pinnacle Guard upto a max unit size of 30 for +19 pts per model
One Pinnacle Guard may be upgraded to a Musician for +10 pts
One Pinnacle Guard may be upgraded to Gate Captain for +16 pts
One Pinnacle Guard may be upgraded to a Standard Bearer for +16 pts
May take a magic standard worth upto 75pts
Special Rules:
Undead
Protect until the last
Empowered by their Lord and Master, the Pinnacle Guard will stop at nothing to protect him
The body must be placed in the centre of the unit (or as near as possible). It will only move into the front rank when there are insufficient ranks.
The Body of Nagash cannot be challenged.
Seat of the Spirit
Intrinsically tied together, the spirit cannot survive without the body
If the Body is killed, the Spirit of Nagash is automatically destroyed, and regardless of VP the Legion can only achieve Minor Loss at best.
The Spirit of Nagash
M 6 / WS 8 / BS 5 / S 4 / T 4 / W 3 / I 6 / A 4 / Ld 10
Equipment
None (benefits from items carried by the Body of Nagash – See Item entries)
Special Rules:
Undead
Ethereal
Fly
5+ Ward
May not join units
Level 4 Wizard (due to the Powers of the Ninth Book of Nagash knows all spells from the Lore of Nagash, and may choose four other spells from the Lores of Shadows, Death, Fire or Metal)
May cast all four Rituals per turn.
Creator of Necromancy
As the creator of this foul art, Nagash knows it better than anyone one else, and casts it with unparalleled skill and power.
Nagash generates one extra PD and DD in the relevant magic phases than normal, and he gains +2 to casting form the Lore of Nagash, +1 to cast from any other Lore.
Any Rituals cast by him are at power level of D3 + 6.
In addition any miscasts made when casting from the Lore of Nagash are immediate ignored. The spell fails and the magic phase is immediately ended.
There is also no limit to the amount of PD Nagash may use to cast a spell.
Chained
Whilst his spirit his free to roam, it can never escape the link to his body, and must return there when grievously hurt.
If the Spirit is reduced to 0 wounds by any means then it is immediately forced back into the Body of Nagash. This includes normal instant kill items or spells, such as Infernal Gateway.
Whilst the spirit and body are combined, the Spirit may still attack any enemies in BtB using its own stats, and may cast magic as normal. However any attacks directed back must be made against the Body.
At the start of Nagash’s next turn he may attempt to once more leave his body providing his body is not directly in combat. To do so the Spirit must drain 3 wounds off the Body, therefore the body must have at least 4 wounds remaining. The Spirit may then be placed within 12†of the body, however may not move that turn. The wounds drained from the body may be healed as normal.
Black Armour of Nagash
Forged from a meteorite that crashed into Crippled Peak, this armour has formed a second skin on Nagash’s body, proving to be nigh on impenetrable.
Grants 2+ Armour save and 4+ Ward save
Staff of Power
Nagash’s withered hands still hold this potent artefact, which the ancient Liche created to aid him with his most devastating spells
At the end of each magic phase the Staff more store upto 2 unused PD / DD, which then may be used in the following magic phase. These can be used by the Spirit of Nagash only. The staff starts the battle with 1PD already stored.
Ninth Book of Nagash
The final Book of Nagash has never been seen by any other that the Great Lord of Undeath. Though there are many copies, none contain the full power or knowledge contained in this sacred tome.
This book combines the effects of all the previous Books of Nagash (1 to 8).
Due to the powers of the Books, the powers benefit either the Body or the Spirit as follows:
Body - Benefits from the effects of Books 2, 4, 5
Spirit - Benefits from effects on Books 1, 3, 6, 7, 8
I think it looks pretty good.
The Body and Spirit of Nagash - 1200pts
Nagash is a Lord and a Rare choice and must be the army general.
The Nagash special character consists of two models; the Spirit and the Body, which deploy at the same time but can operate independently during the game. Note the Spirit is considered separate at the start of the game and no wounds need sacrificing for it to leave Nagash's body.
The Body
The withered form of the Master of Necromancers sits upon his throne, borne aloft by his most loyal servants; the Pinnacle Guard. They serve him in death as they did in life, and will forever serve their lord.
The unit consists of 1 Body of Nagash model (which counts as the four models it displaces for rank purposes) and 11 Pinnacle Guard equipped with GW, HW, Heavy Armour & Shields.
Body of Nagash - M * / WS - / BS - / S - / T 6 / W 7 / I - / A - / Ld -
Pinnacle Guard - M 4 / WS 4 / BS 0 / S 4 / T 4 / W 1 / I 2 / A 1 / L6
* The body moves along with the Pinnacle Guard at their standard rate. If 4 or less Pinnacle Guard are left the unit cannot move.
Equipment
Black Armour of Nagash
The Ninth Book of Nagash
The Staff of Power
Options:
Additional Pinnacle Guard upto a max unit size of 30 for +19 pts per model
One Pinnacle Guard may be upgraded to a Musician for +10 pts
One Pinnacle Guard may be upgraded to Gate Captain for +16 pts
One Pinnacle Guard may be upgraded to a Standard Bearer for +16 pts
May take a magic standard worth upto 75pts
Special Rules:
Undead
Protect until the last
Empowered by their Lord and Master, the Pinnacle Guard will stop at nothing to protect him
The body must be placed in the centre of the unit (or as near as possible). It will only move into the front rank when there are insufficient ranks.
The Body of Nagash cannot be challenged.
Seat of the Spirit
Intrinsically tied together, the spirit cannot survive without the body
If the Body is killed, the Spirit of Nagash is automatically destroyed, and regardless of VP the Legion can only achieve Minor Loss at best.
The Spirit of Nagash
M 6 / WS 8 / BS 5 / S 4 / T 4 / W 3 / I 6 / A 4 / Ld 10
Equipment
None (benefits from items carried by the Body of Nagash – See Item entries)
Special Rules:
Undead
Ethereal
Fly
5+ Ward
May not join units
Level 4 Wizard (due to the Powers of the Ninth Book of Nagash knows all spells from the Lore of Nagash, and may choose four other spells from the Lores of Shadows, Death, Fire or Metal)
May cast all four Rituals per turn.
Creator of Necromancy
As the creator of this foul art, Nagash knows it better than anyone one else, and casts it with unparalleled skill and power.
Nagash generates one extra PD and DD in the relevant magic phases than normal, and he gains +2 to casting form the Lore of Nagash, +1 to cast from any other Lore.
Any Rituals cast by him are at power level of D3 + 6.
In addition any miscasts made when casting from the Lore of Nagash are immediate ignored. The spell fails and the magic phase is immediately ended.
There is also no limit to the amount of PD Nagash may use to cast a spell.
Chained
Whilst his spirit his free to roam, it can never escape the link to his body, and must return there when grievously hurt.
If the Spirit is reduced to 0 wounds by any means then it is immediately forced back into the Body of Nagash. This includes normal instant kill items or spells, such as Infernal Gateway.
Whilst the spirit and body are combined, the Spirit may still attack any enemies in BtB using its own stats, and may cast magic as normal. However any attacks directed back must be made against the Body.
At the start of Nagash’s next turn he may attempt to once more leave his body providing his body is not directly in combat. To do so the Spirit must drain 3 wounds off the Body, therefore the body must have at least 4 wounds remaining. The Spirit may then be placed within 12†of the body, however may not move that turn. The wounds drained from the body may be healed as normal.
Black Armour of Nagash
Forged from a meteorite that crashed into Crippled Peak, this armour has formed a second skin on Nagash’s body, proving to be nigh on impenetrable.
Grants 2+ Armour save and 4+ Ward save
Staff of Power
Nagash’s withered hands still hold this potent artefact, which the ancient Liche created to aid him with his most devastating spells
At the end of each magic phase the Staff more store upto 2 unused PD / DD, which then may be used in the following magic phase. These can be used by the Spirit of Nagash only. The staff starts the battle with 1PD already stored.
Ninth Book of Nagash
The final Book of Nagash has never been seen by any other that the Great Lord of Undeath. Though there are many copies, none contain the full power or knowledge contained in this sacred tome.
This book combines the effects of all the previous Books of Nagash (1 to 8).
Due to the powers of the Books, the powers benefit either the Body or the Spirit as follows:
Body - Benefits from the effects of Books 2, 4, 5
Spirit - Benefits from effects on Books 1, 3, 6, 7, 8
I think it looks pretty good.
Disciple of Nagash said:
Your options should be listed like this:
Options:
Additional Pinnacle Guard upto a max unit size of 30 for +19 pts per model
One Pinnacle Guard may be upgraded to a Musician for +10 pts
One Pinnacle Guard may be upgraded to Gate Captain for +16 pts
One Pinnacle Guard may be upgraded to a Standard Bearer for +16 pts
a) The additional models should cost the same as they do for the unit (15 pts + 4 pts GW)
b) The command upgrades don't need their options listed... they WILL have the same options as the unit (by default).
c) I see nothing listed about allowing/disallowing magical standards. It'd probably be a good idea to specify... though I'm not sure if it'd be a good idea to allow them or not...
Ok, I have made the changes. In regards to a magic standard, I think they should be able to carry one upto 75pts
Marcus Von Drac
Vampire Thrall
Yep, those rules look good to me. Also, my comparison to Lord Croak was wrong, as I have remembered that in the recent Lizardmern incarnation he can only cast 1 spell. But putting that aside, I think the rules here are fair. And yes, 75pts magical standard is good.
Ok, I have updated with the standard.
Considering this is the main character that the Legion is named after, can everyone just double check everything and make sure we all think it will work ok?
Considering this is the main character that the Legion is named after, can everyone just double check everything and make sure we all think it will work ok?
I just noticed that it's not specified whether the Spirit "starts" in play, or has to be initially summoned. This might effect point costs too (depending on how it was calculated), since it's the difference between 7 combined wounds or 10 combined wounds...
Marcus Von Drac
Vampire Thrall
Looking at him in all seriousness, yes I would take him. Of course play testing will need to be done but I think he is as good as he can get, powerful and balanced.
Jolly good. I think we have managed to create something that whilst not the idea I would have preferred (i.e going with the 4th edition walking monstrosity) is still quite good.
hmmm shame hes not the huge sorceror shrouded in darkness i remember from 4th edition but youve done a good job making him,although i do like the idea of him casting spells and wielding mortis cowering all before him
P.S prob quite late but would of been good when his spirit is forced into the body maybe "activating" it almost like a 40k Eldar Avatar(fluff appearance wise),once imobile but when the spirit enters filled with fury and wrath,striding forward to face his foes,or something like that lol,anyway good job lads
P.S prob quite late but would of been good when his spirit is forced into the body maybe "activating" it almost like a 40k Eldar Avatar(fluff appearance wise),once imobile but when the spirit enters filled with fury and wrath,striding forward to face his foes,or something like that lol,anyway good job lads
A zombie shambles through a crypt, carrying a jug filled with fresh blood, meant to be delivered to one of its masters. However it is not to be; an unseen root snags its foot, and the undead falls, sending the jug flying. It lands upon a forgotten tomb, filled with ash, ash that coalleses quickly into a recognisable form...
*ahem*
Thought I'd throw my oar in here. While I appreciate your keeping with this version, which I created in the first place, I recognise this is no longer my project. Therefore, should you wish to make a different version of Nagash, don't let a deference to what has gone before stop you. You have said you're not happy with it DoN, so change it if you wish.
However, as I see Nagash as an intrinsic part of the army, if you do wish to change his concept it should be voted on, as with most of the rest of the stuff in this subforum. To be voted on it needs to be discussed, and I am more than willing to defend this version if necessary, as I feel it is right for my vision of the army.
Of course, I'll be far happier if you just stick with the tweaked version as it is now, saves me having to defend it
*ahem*
Thought I'd throw my oar in here. While I appreciate your keeping with this version, which I created in the first place, I recognise this is no longer my project. Therefore, should you wish to make a different version of Nagash, don't let a deference to what has gone before stop you. You have said you're not happy with it DoN, so change it if you wish.
However, as I see Nagash as an intrinsic part of the army, if you do wish to change his concept it should be voted on, as with most of the rest of the stuff in this subforum. To be voted on it needs to be discussed, and I am more than willing to defend this version if necessary, as I feel it is right for my vision of the army.
Of course, I'll be far happier if you just stick with the tweaked version as it is now, saves me having to defend it
I think after the hard work put into this version we should probably stick with it, however if others prefer we try for a more simplified version similar to the 4 edition one we could discuss that. What do others think?
We could have both, like there are 2 manfreds in the VC book, though niether nagash would be a hero choice.