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Shooting While in Close Combat

Irisado

Ancient Vampire Lord
Staff member
True Blood
#1
A question which came up during my first game of AoS was whether my opponent's Flamers could shoot the Fell Bats they were fighting in close combat. The only constraints on firing missile weapons didn't include fighting in close combat, so we decided that they could. Was this correct? I'd like to think that we didn't play it correctly, because firing missiles while in close combat seems wrong to me.
 

Borgnine

Moderator
Staff member
#2
Missle and melee weapons are separated in the warscrolls. And as it says in the rules: "Missile weapons can be used in the shooting phase, and melee weapons can be used in the combat phase." That, and it obviously seems wrong, as you wrote ;)
 

Irisado

Ancient Vampire Lord
Staff member
True Blood
#3
Yes, I noted that in the rules, but the Flamers opened fire during the shooting phase at the Fell Bats they were fighting. The rules for shooting state that units which have made a run move or have retreated cannot shoot, yet no mention is made of not being able to shoot while engaged in close combat, so far as I can see.
 

Borgnine

Moderator
Staff member
#4
I read a bit on the internet and it seems like shooters CAN shoot into their melee opponents and then stab them with their swords.... Rules designers were watching Legolas in Lord of the Rings movies it seems.
 
#5
Yes they can, while this may seem wrong because we're not used to it, why shouldn't you fire an arrow to a guy infront of you? doesn't take much effort. In reality almost all ranged units used to shoot in combat. Same goes with most units. Why can't the banshee scream in his face? Why can't a stalker petrify a footman in front of him? The only restriction is that some weapons have a minimum range eg. 6"-64" so you can't shoot at point blank. As for war machines i agree that they shouldn't be able to shoot while in combat but currently they can.
 

Borgnine

Moderator
Staff member
#6
Of course you could shot a guy in front of you - problem is when he's attacking, as a bow is a much worse close combat weapon than a sword ;) And even if we discard that, how is a bowman changing so quickly between a bow and a sword, when he's doing both kinds of attacks in a single turn? Banshees, monsters, this can I understand, but standard weapons for standard humans - not so much ;) There should be some penalties for the shooter or bonuses for the attacker, but that would be complicated.

But well, maybe I grew up on older versions of Warhammer ;) And I don't have a historian on hand to ask him about that xD
 
#7
Most ranged units I played against had knives/daggers/arrows as combat weapons thus the bad profile in combat. as you can switch to a weapon like that in one hand. However I still agree that there should be penalties yes. the threat of the enemy in front of you should cause enough confusion.
 

Irisado

Ancient Vampire Lord
Staff member
True Blood
#8
My main concern here was just to clear up the rules issue that I had. I'm still somewhat bemused by the fact that this is allowed, but it clearly is, so my question has been answered. Thank you :).
 

Demian

Vampire Count
True Blood
#9
Shooting into combat is allowed because...

Ignoring the veracity of such a feat in real combat, Ranged units can only shoot once every 2 "turns", while Melee units can attack everytime there is a combat phase and they have viable targets. Ranged weapons's coefficients are somewhat lower than Melee ones and therein lies the balance.

Also, most "elite" shooter units have special rules that include "if there are no enemies within 3''... gain x or y bonus".

Last, Ranged units usually have poor Melee stats, and, since Melee units can attack twice as fast as they can shoot, this is meant to balance it somehow.

At least that's how I see it!
 

Irisado

Ancient Vampire Lord
Staff member
True Blood
#10
Ah I see, because I was up against Daemons with my Vampire Covenant, there wasn't a lot of shooting going on, so there were none of the rules you refer to being played. If I were to field my Empire army with lots more ranged units I suspect that I'd see the difference. Thanks for the explanation :).
 
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