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Skaven dual screaming bell Plague furnace advice

Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Messages
134
#1
Hey I'm playing my friend next week who collects skaven,the game will be 2k and he fields 1 furnace with priest big unit of plague priests etc,screaming bell stormvirmin,seer etc,some clanrats slaves me finks and a doom wheel

now was just wondering how to combat the dual bell/funrnace combo not played the new skaven yet but have had a lot of sucsesses against the old book,Ive read it so I know how powerfull they can be,also no weapon teams so less shooting,also suspect a cheaky engineer in as well lol

was wondering what sort of list I should take,been playing combat heavy recently would that be best? Plan is to divert the furnace with wolves and flank it with ghouls or graveguard,not sure about the bell skeles? lol oh also is the bell or furnace magical attacks? Maybe spirit hoasts? Any advice would be appreciated thanx :)
 
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
85
#2
Holy Cow, he fields both a Bell and a Furnace? at 2000 points? Sorry I just got on the VC Wagon myself, and I am also starting a small Skaven llist, so when I saw this post I just had to exclaim my shock and horror!

-- Ravenfeld
 

Fodderboy

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
2,243
#4
Definitely divert with wolves or zombie speedbumps, then go for the flank or rear. Don't go front on.

In the meantime, use faster units to kill everything else and leave them for last.

This is one of the few times I'd say Blood Knights with Regen is allowed. Just make sure you have dogs or bats to screen them before you stab them into the flank of the furnace or bell.

Ghouls 7 or more wide into the flanks of those units will work well too. Just be ready to bring focus your magic phase on whatever units are in CC with the big units, as the poison gas checks etc will wear you down pretty quicky.

You could also have fun with a hero terrorbomb, just to scatter the core of his army and marchblock the rest.
 

Yanda

Black Knight
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Messages
376
#5
Id rather face a screaming bell and plague furnace than a hellpit and a doomwheel =p
 
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
Messages
124
#6
As Yanda said they are the lesser of the evils skaven can bring. 2 units of wolves positioned to take them away from each other and expose their flanks snd they are yours. Tarpit with ghouls in the flank and grind until they are gone.
 

Yanda

Black Knight
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Messages
376
#7
Try positioning your wolves so that you will be able to get them to expose there flank bc of frenzy but at the same time you can really mess with your opponents head because 9 times out of 10 when I lay wolves my opponents assume there is some calvalry going behind them. If you could put them off onto 1 flank and then fast cav them into the bait position you might be able to screw up his deployment phase.
 
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Messages
134
#8
Cheers for the advice thought ghouls would be the way forward :) bait
him and flank,kinda happy I won't have to face all those weapons teams tho :)

Should be a good game shall let you know how it goes :)
 

Randar

Grave Guard
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
290
#9
i fought 2 plague furnaces and a screaming bell in my recent 3k match! zombie speed bumps are a waste of time and dice vs these! best thing is to do is smash them head on with ASF! strength 7 lord and smash tar out of them you can focus all your attacks on the bell! ( yeah it rings) i had vlad's unit take the plague furnace after i sacrificed Isabella 6 attacks that replenish his unit with re-rolls! i watched the WoC try and "avoid" the bells and furnaces and just got widdled down! you can not tar-pit them reliably you need to smash them hard and fast! :mad2::grave: ( i didnt fight any doomwheels can't help ya there)

oh and Pit of shades works well if you roll 4+ lol!
 
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
280
#10
I do not wish to be rude or make this personal, but the above is not good advice as far as I can see. Hitting a furnace unit head-on will only result in two toughness tests per model(1 for furnace, 1 for inevitable priest with censer) without armor saves.

Zombie speed bumps ARE good advice, as the skaven player has to charge it and have a flank exposed, or sits there and does nothing for a turn. That's a good return on two dice. Aren't the monks frenzied anyway? That would make speed bumps even better.

Raised zombies also work great against the wheel. Put enough in his vicinity and odds are that they will be the closest thing to it and thus will eat the three lightning blasts. This is, of course, if I am reading its rules correctly.
 

Yanda

Black Knight
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Messages
376
#11
Randar said:
i fought 2 plague furnaces and a screaming bell in my recent 3k match! zombie speed bumps are a waste of time and dice vs these! best thing is to do is smash them head on with ASF! strength 7 lord and smash tar out of them you can focus all your attacks on the bell! ( yeah it rings) i had vlad's unit take the plague furnace after i sacrificed Isabella 6 attacks that replenish his unit with re-rolls! i watched the WoC try and "avoid" the bells and furnaces and just got widdled down! you can not tar-pit them reliably you need to smash them hard and fast! :mad2::grave: ( i didnt fight any doomwheels can't help ya there)

oh and Pit of shades works well if you roll 4+ lol!
The plague Furnace has MR+2 and it does affect the monks pushing it. As of right now 2 extra dice to dispel something is redicious but Ive heard rumors in 8th that MR and Dispel Scrolls are getting nerfed. Havent faced the screaming bell very often as my friend usually takes a hellpit, doomwheel and furnace and leaves the bell on his shelf =p.

Just took a double-check on my skaven.pdf and the Bell does have MR+2 as well. I think a good tactic against these would be shooting heavy armies (which were not) The monks generally have no armor save and cannons would be very effective against the bell or furnace, even if there not chariots a cannon doing d6 STR 10/8 wounds would really make them a target. However that isnt VC so we need to stick to bait and flank tactics.


marshal torrick said:
I do not wish to be rude or make this personal, but the above is not good advice as far as I can see. Hitting a furnace unit head-on will only result in two toughness tests per model(1 for furnace, 1 for inevitable priest with censer) without armor saves.
Not only that, any good skaven player is going to be sporting Banner of the Underempire that results in an additional 2d6 Str 2 Hits to anything in base contact. So your essentially getting pounded 3 times, add in potential impact hits and the frenzied monk's attacks and your frontal assault is doomed.
 

Randar

Grave Guard
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
290
#12
well i guess i got lucky then since i slaughtered them in close combat xD ASF is great no one strikes back if they all die and they are pretty much naked.
 
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
99
#13
I have to agree with Randa to a certain extent. Both games I have had against new skaven have involved their plague furnace/screaming bell going down to a GW grave guard unit with BotB ASF and A dread knight vampire. The asf wasn't even that essential! A couple of rounds whittled them down by which point the rest of his army was toast and I had the oppurtunity to flank
 

Burnanation

Crypt Horror
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
573
#14
I would go with the bait tactic. Get them away from the rest of the ratmen. Kill everything else, then dance dance dance around until you have a chance to kill them, or if you have wiped everything else out, and haven't lost much yourself, just stay away from them. I know it doesn't give you that awesome "This one time at the Warhammer Shop" story but it will earn you a victory. At this time you could sit back, raise your units back to full strength then start lobbing magic at them MR 2 or not.
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#15
Yanda said:
Not only that, any good skaven player is going to be sporting Banner of the Underempire that results in an additional 2d6 Str 2 Hits to anything in base contact. So your essentially getting pounded 3 times, add in potential impact hits and the frenzied monk's attacks and your frontal assault is doomed.
Well, I should think good Skaven players will also tend to take the Storm Banner on their Plague Monks ;)

But I do agree it's a vicious setup, at a big comped tournament I went to with Goblins I hit their Furnace block in both flanks with Giant, Squig Hoppers and a large unit with my Black Orc Warboss. This banner alone was dealing about 6 wounds a turn, meaning no attacks back (ASF doesn't help when your troops have already been killed!)- not that winning combat was any use, but such large amounts of damage can't be absorbed so easily. While the Plague Monks just need to survive until something else nasty arrives to flank your own flankers...
 
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Messages
134
#16
Hey Ive just recently played the game that I asked the advice for,it's
in the battle report section :) was a good game,oh and attacking a furnace head on with grave guard is no where near as good as ghouls :) grave guard go in the flank :)
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Messages
145
#17
Flanks, and you shouldnt have too much trouble with baiting the furnace, as he wont have much else in his army at 2K. Redirect him into a wood or something and watch him impact hit himself, then whilst he's in there keep raising zombies infront of it and make it cary on moving!
 
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