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Some help against the peskey Cold Blooded Lizardmen

Joined
Dec 15, 2007
Messages
4
#1
We all know that Lizardmen are one of the VC hardest armies to beat. But that can change with some help (NOTE: I just copy/pastes this from the old site, so there will be some things that will be a little weird... like the beginning. But it IS why I joined all the Warhammer forums... to help people out with other armies):

This is exactly why I joined all the Warhammer forums. I am a 2 year Lizardmen player. And I just played VC.. a few weeks ago. Total masssacre :mrgreen:

Banshees ARE torture to Lizardmen. But beware! Against a magic Lizardmen army, they will most likely use the 'save the best spells for last, and target the banshee' trick. So when they target your other unit, let the spells go. But when they target the banshee, save it. A single banshee took out 2 key units to my plan in the battle (I still won.. but thats because I got in a double challenge with his Count/Lord thingy. He was in a unit, so my unit champion challenged his unit champion, and then my general challenged his general. I killed his general first round of challenge. Half the army crumbled to dust the next turn. It was all down hill from their for my opponent). But the one thing about Lizardmen that is tough for VC, cold-blooded LD 8 is most likely NOT going to fail fear tests. And if the Lizardmen take a carno, then YOU will be taking the fear tests. The Lizardmen player will most likely max out of kroxigors, cold one riders, and other fear/terror causing units. But that means a MAJOR points sink for the Lizardmen. Lots of skellies is the answer to that. Lizardmen's greatest weakness is combat res. They basically only win if they kill 2-3 more than you do. They usually only have 2 ranks. Skellies usually have 3. And zombies... they would actually help vs Lizardmen. The more units you have, the better (which is why Lizardmen HATE Skaven. If you play Skaven and VC, then the best answer to Lizardmen is using your Skaven).

I will have more coming soon... I hope.
 

Grish

Liche
True Blood
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
5,444
#2
A 'double-challenge'? I thought there was one challenge per combat, regardless of the units involved. And how does your unit champion challenge his unit champion? Whoever charges, challenges with a single model, and the other player can respond to who takes up the challenge. I've never had a VC count fall to a LZ general...
 
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
Messages
4
#3
I read in the BRB (big rule book) that you could do any amount of challenges per combat. And you can challenge any character (unit champions included). And it was also some lucky dice rolls on my part and some unlucky ones on his part... :grin:
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#4
You didn't read that there, one per combat, period, and you never challenge a specific character either. But either way you'd have probably still gotten to beat down the Vampire I'm sure, Vampire generals are too weak at the moment, especially compared to Saurus characters. Good advice in general, Banshees are indeed great, especially since Cold-blooded does not apply to them. One game a couple of months ago saw my Banshee scream to death two Scar Veterans, you only need to roll 8 on both dice and they're unlikely to have a ward save that works on the scream.

Always be very weary of Huanchi's Blessed Totem on a Scar Vet BSB or Cold One unit: the free few inches of movement in the magic phase cannot be dispelled and is horrible. My last opponent plays as nasty as he can, so last game saw two Scar Vets and an Oldblood in a unit of Cold Ones crashing into my infantry!
 

Grish

Liche
True Blood
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
5,444
#5
Actually I just went through the LZ book and Oldbloods are sick! They can have 9 attacks on the charge with a Maiming shield, a certain spawning, and a magic sword. Plus their mounts attacks. And from what I see, damn cheap for what you get. They're better fighters than our best vampire lord (even a tooled up blood dragon I don't think can take one of these guys).

Yikes. Glad I read that, I will not fight that guy directly. I'll sacrifice as many units as I have to to hit that unit in the side and win through CR (I'd assume such an expensive unit would be ItP).
 

DarkHand6

Grave Guard
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
244
#6
Lord Gilles said:
I read in the BRB (big rule book) that you could do any amount of challenges per combat. And you can challenge any character (unit champions included). And it was also some lucky dice rolls on my part and some unlucky ones on his part... :grin:

nope - you can challenge once per combat round... and EVC is correct - challenges are never model specific
so in ur turn ur OB challenges + his unit champ accepts = dead unit champ
then in the next combat phase (i.e. in his turn) you can challenge again and he either accepts with the vamp or declines....

i must admit though i dont think Vamp generals are v. weak - had my count take on a beat a chaos lord with the runesword (took 4 combat rounds cos i fluffed 3 times then killed him in one turn), seriously only soemthing kitted out specifically to kill uber hard enemy characters will kill them easily (and if thats there then why the heck hasnt the WL + SoK got rid of it? ;))
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
156
#7
nice but i see a few things rong,

1.
And if the Lizardmen take a carno, then YOU will be taking the fear tests.
undead dont take fear tests

2.
but thats because I got in a double challenge with his Count/Lord thingy. He was in a unit, so my unit champion challenged his unit champion, and then my general challenged his general.
i was under the impression that your champion challanges, then VC chooses who acsepts (or flees)

if he was playing BD than the count would HAVE to take the challange from the captain (they have to acspet ALL challanges)

3.
I killed his general first round of challenge.
most people usually take good care with there genral, using MI and banners and powers to stop them dying, how did you kill it on the first turn??


anyways thats my (probly rong) rant
nice find though
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2007
Messages
120
#8
I am a Lizardmen player, and i must say my favorite unit is kroxigors, without a shadow of a doubt.

I had a unit of three, with an ancient, and it took down a deamon prince in 2 turns :mrgreen:, my opponent was NOT happy! :mrgreen:

Usually my tactic is to go on a vicious rampage, smashing through small, heavy armoured units. The best way to stop this is bog them down with ALOT of zombies. It would take even THEM a while to chew through them all, so remember to raise more to keep them occupied.

However, a clever opponent would use a 'skink screen' to guard the kroxigors, this is great for them because the poor skinks can absorb fire and unwanted charges, and when the time is right, the kroxigor can charge through them (special rule, it great :grin:) If this is the case, two zombie units are needed, one to distract the skinks and one to distract the kroxigors, what ever you do, dont let them charge!

-Warplock
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#9
Your opponent should have declared a challenge, that way he'd have only had to face 4 attacks per turn rather than 10...
 

Skaramak von Carstein

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
1,636
#10
There seem to be qite a few misconceptions there. As pointed out:

Undead are ItP, so only the ghouls would need to take a fear test from the carnosaur,
Only one chalenge is allowed per combat (brb, page 76, first sentence in the section "Issueing a Challenge").
Once the challenge is issued, the player challenged selects who accepts (uness a Blood dragon is present, in which case the DB with the highest leadership must accept).

Remember, you do not need LoS for a Banshee's scream, but do for most damaging spells. If she is in the middle of a wood, behind a wall or behind a unit, it will be difficult to hit her with spells, whereas she can sing to her hearts content :cool:.
 
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
160
#11
Regarding the oldbloods I find that the sword of kings really frightens them. I think it is one of the best places to use the standard of Burrows and the sword (killing blow +5 after +3 for impacts). I've never faced a carnosaur though.

On the skinks, I've found that the hosts are unvaluable with them as a screen. The only problem is that you have to protect them from magic (and heal them), but they can destroy the skinks (even when they are in cover) and stop the kroxigors (they lack CR).

Remember to put the banshee far away from the enemy general: the cold blooded rule makes difficult to fail the tests with the high leadership of a slann or and oldblood, so you should target the opposite flank. Salamanders, terradons, stegadons and skinks are quite vulnerable to her sweet song. Therefore, I usually deploy her near the center and then she runs (behind the main units) to the place where her targets lay.

Finally, if you want to go solo with your heroes, be careful with the skink's poison: you need a good save and/or ward save to survive their shoots.
 
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