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Some notifications from Undead Legions ie tk vs vc

Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Messages
131
#1
Let start little project for helping each others shall we. I'll give an example, but You can keep em coming. :)

When using skeleton warriors with hand weapon & shield always nominate that you are using tombking version with light armour upgrade. why? same price but higher leadership.
 

Atrophus

Grave Guard
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Messages
214
#3
If you wanna run a mounted blender bus and go character heavy, go for skeleton horsemen, cheaper than black knights and come from core tax
 

HERO

Wight King
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
434
#4
If you wanna run a mounted blender bus and go character heavy, go for skeleton horsemen, cheaper than black knights and come from core tax
But you really, really, really want that T4 2+ save that Black Knights offer.
 
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Messages
21
#5
Id bet to wager that while they are weaker they are still better. You get more models, the knights are really only ablative wounds for the characters in the bus, and them being core you can still take a healthy block of crypt horrors or necro knights.
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
116
#6
I was thinking of doing just that, now the real question is whether 20 toughness 3 with a 4+ save are the same as 10 toughness 4 with a 2+ save... wil have to test in game to really get a good feel for it, but i recon that t4 is maybe worth the special slot..

20 full command with light armour light cav is 310pts while 10 full command with barding, lances and banner of swiftness black knights are 305pts. Which make better wound markers are up for debate.
 

HERO

Wight King
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
434
#7
I was thinking of doing just that, now the real question is whether 20 toughness 3 with a 4+ save are the same as 10 toughness 4 with a 2+ save... wil have to test in game to really get a good feel for it, but i recon that t4 is maybe worth the special slot..

20 full command with light armour light cav is 310pts while 10 full command with barding, lances and banner of swiftness black knights are 305pts. Which make better wound markers are up for debate.
T4 2+ is a gigantic improvement over T3 4+, are you guys kidding me? This is not about cost, it's about the fact that you're delivering your most precious piece (your General) into combat in an army based around the Unstable USR. If you feed combat res, you're going to lose your Lord, thus drastically limiting the type of units your Lord and his bus can engage. Things like Spear Elves can barely threaten a Black Knight bus but it will make you sweat bullets with a light cav bus.

The fact that your IoN brings back the same amount of Black Knights as light cav should be incentive enough to run the Black Knights, nevermind the fact that they're still WS S6 KB on the charge that can threaten anything in the game, including characters (I've had BKs KB characters more times than I can count). The more damage you can do as a unit means less work your Lord needs to do to carry the unit, and the greater swing for combat res in your favor, which means less models dead, which can mean the difference between staying there forever or crumbling to dust next turn.
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
116
#8
Thats why i said the t4 might be worth the special slot :tongue: .

I was just thinking, now that we dont have to have VC lore on the general we can finally utilise forbidden lore, and take a lvl 4 with any lore and maybe two lvl 2 necros with lore of vampires to heal up units. Going to go for beasts first :) savage beast on a blender wil be amazing, or even just a wild form on some black knights or crypt horrors.
 
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Atrophus

Grave Guard
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Messages
214
#10
Oh I completely agree bk are better, no contest like you say. However in smaller games when your points are tight, or ones when you intend to run a bus with a front rank of just characters, then the horsemen become a viable option.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
49
#11
I agree that both black knights and horsemen are possible delivery methods for a character bus now, and while there is no difference in combat from the front for either if you have a full rank of characters, you still have to consider ranged attacks, magic and flank charges carefully when considering the more vulnerable horsemen as a bus.
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
116
#12
Thing is even if you get flanked as long as you arent multi charged, you can make way in such a way that no actual light cav is in combat. Only works if there are 3 or more characters though.

Crumble is the defining factor though and that doesnt care if your toughness 3 or 8. If you think about it like that then 10 extra bodies mean that they can lose an extra 5 in cc more than black knights and it still makes no differance as the extra crumble is absorbed by the extra boddies. Now ranged attacks and magic might kill a few more than they would black knights. But you would still be able to raise them and invocation might be more valuable to them as more often than black knights you would probably rais the full 5 seeing as there are more to start with and they are more squishy.
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#13
I take a unit of 9 horsemen with light armour + champ to bunker my hellsteed vamp lord, and they basically only exist against enemies with cannons otherwise I use them to hunt warmachines and clear chaff.

Yeah the unit is tiny, but since I'm not really concerned about breaking steadfast anyways I just run them 2-wide. That way only the VL and the champion can be attacked, and unless they get flanked there's only so many wounds that can actually be put on the unit.

It's not as effective as a BK bus, but it's also way cheaper, and more maneuverable/durable than a VL on foot. And if the opponent doesn't have cannons then I just run him in with whatever unit I feel like anyways.



As for other points, DO NOT use the casket to chip away at mainstay combat blocks. Do it when you don't have another good option, but with LD10 rerollable you're very unlikely to do much of anything. Instead use Light of Death to target warmachines, chaff, and flanking forces...i.e. things that aren't benefiting from LD upgrades.
 

John Rainbow

Crypt Horror
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
598
#14
Id bet to wager that while they are weaker they are still better. You get more models, the knights are really only ablative wounds for the characters in the bus, and them being core you can still take a healthy block of crypt horrors or necro knights.
QFT

The fact that they come out of core more than offsets the downsides IMHO. Leaves more room for toys!
 

najo

Mortarch of the Dark Soul
True Blood
Joined
Dec 23, 2012
Messages
2,047
#17
I agree that the horsemen out of core is a viable alternative to black knights. You just field more of them and as mentioned above, make way as needed. There is also some nifty tricks with running both units that allow characters to do some interesting unit hoping.
 

GDD

Grave Guard
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
200
#18
Can we talk about the Warsphinx vs Crypt Horrors? Both are designed to kill infantry, and tank stuff. They do it sort of differently though.

Warsphinxes seem like a fun thing to have if you where short a few points to have that 8x Horror block. They can take a breath weapon, and you can trade their attacks for a S 3(9 d3w) small template attack, and you still get the KB TG attacks. And since they can march now it's not slow either. You can give them a 4+ regen save with necrotects, and engines, but it's a super heavy commitment. Something to think about.

I wanna see a list with a ghoul block, with a vampire, and a necrotect. Some wolfs, 3 warsphinxes, and two engines. Seems like fun.
 

Atrophus

Grave Guard
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Messages
214
#19
Can we talk about the Warsphinx vs Crypt Horrors? Both are designed to kill infantry, and tank stuff. They do it sort of differently though.

Warsphinxes seem like a fun thing to have if you where short a few points to have that 8x Horror block. They can take a breath weapon, and you can trade their attacks for a S 3(9 d3w) small template attack, and you still get the KB TG attacks. And since they can march now it's not slow either. You can give them a 4+ regen save with necrotects, and engines, but it's a super heavy commitment. Something to think about.

I wanna see a list with a ghoul block, with a vampire, and a necrotect. Some wolfs, 3 warsphinxes, and two engines. Seems like fun.
Would be a cool list, I can already envisage some strigoi themed warsphinxes, made from terrorgheists with the wings cut away to look like front legs and ghouls crawling all over crewing it :)
Don't know whether they'd fit the right base though?
 

GDD

Grave Guard
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
200
#20
The warsphinx is 50x100 I believe. It's significantly worse vs non infantry though. That is to be said. It gets no thunderstomps, and I seem to remember it can't thundercrush non infantry?

So yeah. It eats infantry for breakfast, but vs other stuff the only thing it does is have T8. I'd try one or two, but you'd need something else to balance out the list, me thinks.
 
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