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Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
I have been thinking and I'm not sold of some of the ideas of Dieter and the other special characters for the Legion. They just seem wrong and out of place.

So I was thinking that perhaps we should do rules for the nine Dreadlords of Nagash as special characters, and think of a new name for the current lord entry we call Dreadlords.

The other thing that made me think this is in the TVC we have created fluff etc for nine Dreadlords, so I was thinking we could perhaps use them?

Here is a brief overview of them




Arkhan the Black - Rules can be found here LINK




The Executioner

M 4 / WS 8 / BS 0 / S 6 / T 6 / W 5 / I 7 / A 5 / Ld 10

Magic
The Executioner knows all four Rituals and may cast one per turn

Equipment
Great Weapon
Full Plate Armour

Special Rules

Powerhouse
Strong beyond measure the Executioner wields his axe with unparalleled ease and his blows can are rip apart any foe
The Executioner does not strike last with his Great Weapon, but strikes in normal order as if it was a handweapon. He also has the Killing Blow rule that works on creatures of any size.

Immense Stamina
His body, already in peak condition and bolstered by the powers of Nagash, has attained such a great level of resilience so as to appear indestructible.
The Executioner is immune to Killing Blow and Poison. He also has the Regeneration special rule.





The Innocence

M 4 / WS 7 / BS 3 / S 5 (6) / T 5 / W 3 / I 6 / A 5 / Ld 10

Magic
The Innocence knows all four Rituals and may cast 2 per turn. He is also a level 3 caster and may choose from the Lore of Nagash or the Lore of Vampires. (this is explained in fluff) He will know the "free" spell of whichever lore he chooses.

Equipment
The Banishment Blade
This blade was forged many years ago by a dwarven master runesmith to combat the ever growing threat of daemons, after it was lost in battle it was recovered by a Knight of the Order of Morr and found to be as equally devastating to the forces of undead. Eventually it was taken from the vampire Milosh Cromwell when he was captured by Arkhan
Has the following runes inscribed on it:
Master Rune of Banishment - Creatures who are daemonic, have any marks of chaos, are undead or have the forest spirit rule suffer D3+1 wound per unsaved wounds.
Rune of Might - Double strength (max of 10) against enemies that are toughness 5 or more and are daemonic, have any marks of chaos, are undead or have the forest spirit.
Rune of Cleaving - +1 Strength (included in above profile)

Special Rules

Undead

Mist Form
The Innocence has the ability to change it to mist at will, enabling him to move at tremendous speeds and making him nearly impossible to attack
At the start of any turn you may nominate to use this form. Whilst in this form the Innocence has they Fly special rule and any and all attacks require a 6 to hit, this includes attacks that would not normally roll to hit such as a stone thrower. (The roll to his is made after all other adjustments and rolls). This power also negates auto or other magic items which increase the bearers toll to hit. The Innocence can also use this power to leave combat at the start of his turn, in which case he may move as normal.
However whilst in this form the Innocence may not charge, not may he attack in combat and may only cast one spell per turn in addition to his Rituals.

Typhoon
From his outstretched hands the Innocence can unleash a dark storm of power, whose winds can rip apart armour and bone with equal ease
This is classed as a shooting attack with an 18" range. Choose one unit within LOS of the Innocence. This unit is hit with D6+4 S5 armour piercing hits. The affected unit is also pushed away from the Innocence D6 inches. If this push would cause the unit to come into contact with another unit, impassable terrain or the board edge, the unit will stop 1" away from the said feature.




The Guilt (Hero Choice)

M 4 / WS 4 / BS 4 / S 4 / T 4 / W 2 / I 4 / A 3 / Ld 9

Magic
The Guilt knows all four Rituals and may cast 2 per turn. She is also a level 2 caster and uses the Lore of Nagash.

Equipment
Full Plate
Two Hand Weapons

Special Rules

Undead

Untouchable
Seemingly weak compared to the other Dreadlord's, the Guilt is a deadly foe as she is almost unstoppable. Every blow, attack or spell is rebounded at the attacker with doubled fury, ensuring that they are not alive to try again
Whenever the Guilt is hit (this includes instant death such as Pit of Shades, and spells which have an effect but do not cause damage) of any kind, roll a d6. On a roll of 1 the attack is resolved as normal. On a 2+, the Guilt suffers no effect. Instead, resolve the hit including any special rules (such as Killing Blow) against the attacking model. If the attack had a strength value it is doubled to a maximum of 10. If it is unclear who made the attack then it is distributed as shooting on that unit (e.g warmachines). This power cannot be used against Crumbling.

Transference
Though not a proficient fighter, the Guilt has other methods at her disposal. By grasping another any damage caused to her is transferred instantaneously to them, rendering normal protection useless.
The Guilt can choose to use this attack against one opponent in BtB contact instead of her normal attacks. The enemy model must roll under its I value or suffer one automatic wound as she grabs her opponent before stabbing herself. No armour saves are allowed against this wound.




The Sentence
Description:
A vampire of the Necrach line, extremely skilled in the art of Necromancy. He has the usual decayed look of that line, and wears tattered black robes. Prefers to use magic however does have a magical dagger for close combat

Pros:
Magically powerful, though doubtful he is the equal of Lesa. It seems he thinks he is more powerful than V’azrin but as of yet that is to be tested.
Has mastered the art of creating a magical barrier, thus rendering him quite difficult to hurt.

Cons:
Poor combat skills




The Verdict - (Hero Level)

M 4 / WS 6 / BS 0 / S 5 / T 4 / W 3 / I 6 / A 3 / Ld 10

Magic
The Verdict knows all 4 Rituals and may cast one per turn. He is also a level 2 wizard and knows all the spells in the Lore of Fire.

Equipment

Staff of the True Follower
This black staff burns bright when held in the hands of a true believer of Nagash. In the Verdicts hands it has turned into a potent weapon, fuelled by his fanatic loyalty to his master.
The staff has Flaming Attacks, and also grants the bearer an additional PD in each of their magic phases. In addition it can be used as either a Great Weapon or or two hand weapons. This must be chosen before the start of combat and cannot be changed until the Verdict has left combat. If the Verdict cast the Flaming Sword of Rhuin, the affects of the spell are combined with the Staff's special rules.

Special Rules

Undead

Fanatic
The Verdict believes in the Dark Lord like no other, and will stop at nothing to carry his master's command. Such is his force of will that he will not retreat, and woe betide any others who would seek to flee whilst he watches
The Verdict has the Frenzy special rule that can never be lost. Such is his belief that has the same rules as the army Standard Bearer (this can work cumulative with the normal Army Standard Bearer). If any Nagashi flees whilst within 6" of the Verdict they automatically suffer D6 wounds with no save of any kind allowed. If they should flee into the Verdict or the unit that contains the Verdict, they Nagashi unit is automatically destroyed as if they had been run down by an enemy unit. However the enemy does not gain the VP for the destroyed unit.

Pyromancer
The fires of his belief burns to strongly in the Verdict it manifests as actual flames. With eyes that burn like white hot coals he can control the winds of fire with ease, whilst the immense heat of his body can scorch enemies or burn arrows before they can harm him.
The Verdict has +1 to his casting roll when using spells from the Lore of fire, and may use one more dice than his level is normally permitted to when casting. He also has a 5+ ward save.

Mind Assault
The Verdict has the ability to assault the minds of others, hammering their thoughts with words and images until they can do nothing. As their thoughts and emotions are twisted they prove easy prey for the armies of Nagash.
The Verdict can choose one unit or character within 8" of him at the start of every turn. The unit must take Ld at their base value (they may not use a characters Ld unless they are in the unit). If failed the unit cannot move or shoot that turn, and if engaged in combat their WS is reduced to 1.
If a wizard is targeted for every spell they cast they must take a Ld test at their base Ld with no modifiers for magic items / rules etc. If passed they may cast as normal. If failed they automatically miscast.

The Judge
Description
Recently revealed to be Maatameses, a master vampire. Before her turning she was the judge of Lahmia, and still carries the air of intimidation and authority about her. She wears the same armour and robes of the other Dreadlords, but her head is uncovered. She has a cruel face with amber eyes that judge all before her.

Pros:
After Arkhan the most proficient all rounder. Very capable in both combat and magic.
Has the ability to work out an opponent’s strengths and weaknesses, to almost read their souls. More likely this is from years of experience than anything else.

Cons:
Only her thirst for vengeance for what happened to her beloved Lahmia.

The Jailer

Description:
An old, thin, inconspicuous man, who seems to be swallowed within the black robes he wears. He has watery blue eyes and has a rusted set of eyes tied to a roped round his waste. He carries a thin rapier at his side

Pros:
Yet to be revealed

Cons:
Yet to be revealed

The Scribe
Description:
Not much is known of this Dreadlord, other than he is working a secret plan for his master. Even most of the other Dreadlords have never met this illusive person, leaving many to wonder whether he actually exists.......

Pros:
Unknown

Cons:
Unknown




A lot of it is missing which we can flesh out, but at least this would be original.

Comments?
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Jun 9, 2009
1,547
Nine special characters seems a lot as seperate entries,

I suggest you write a base set of rules for all of them for the same points then you could have a list of 9 special rules one for each one which you may only take one but must take one of, which makes each character diffrent (these could include stat changes, special rules and could increase or decrease the original points accordingly, could also effect what they count as Lord/hero etc). The special rules wouldn't have to be worth the same points so could end up adding a lot more points on e.g arkhan the black, and some could reduce the base points.

thoughts?

If you were going to rename the 'dread lord' how about Zenith Lord as we have Zenith prince fof the hero level version
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
If we was to do these I would prefer them as special characters, with fluff etc. The WoC, DoC etc have lots of entries so I don't really see a problem as long as they are balanced.
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Jun 9, 2009
1,547
Yeah ok, I was comparing them to the ammount of characters in the VC book more then any others, so it should be fine.

I think some of them should be Lords while others are just heros as some are obviously more powerful then others.

(On my idea the Fluff for the diffrent characters would have been with the special rule)

Any thoughts on calling the 'dread lord' we have now Zenith Lord as we have Zenith Prince for the hero version.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
I'm ok with Zenith Lord. Ok, well I'm away for the weekend but on Monday I will start having a look at rules. However if some of you want to start that would be great.
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Jun 9, 2009
1,547
I'm also away for the week-end ill try and think up some rules, are we going to use the exsisting rules for arkhan the Black or make new ones. I think the exsisting ones need depowering when it comes to magic and given a bit more combat power.
 

Sweeney Todd

Master Vampire
True Blood
Mar 9, 2008
4,034
Singapore
9 is definitely too many. 4 to 5 would be fine, we should skip the ones that are currently less defined, especially the Scribe.

Zenith Lord sounds fine.
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Jun 9, 2009
1,547
I think 9 should be ok as long as they are split over hero and lord level characters.

IMO I think it should be split like this:
Lords:
Arkhan the Black
The Executioner
The Innocence
The Sentence

Heros:
The Guilt
The verdict
The Judge
The jailer
The scribe
Thats how i would split them from reading the descriptions above, but I haven't read much of the tvc.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
I think that looks ok, however we should move the Judge to Lord level (she is master vampire).

I will start drafting up rules for this tomorrow.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Ok, we will do this in the same way as the other threads and try and go through them one by one. I will also add things into the first post as we confirm them.

We already have rules for Arkhan that have been voted through so they are fine.

So lets look at the Executioner. In the TVC he is a powerhouse physically and is skilled in combat. He is also tough and has a lot of stamina etc, but is very limited magic wise so:

The Executioner

M 4 / WS 8 / BS 1 / S 6 / T 6 / W 5 / I 8 / A 5 / Ld 10

Magic
The Executioner knows all four Rituals and may cast one per turn

Equipment
Great Weapon

Special Rules

Powerhouse
Strong beyond measure the Executioner wields his axe with unparalleled ease and his blows can are rip apart any foe
The Executioner does not strike last with his Great Weapon, but strikes in normal order as if it was a handweapon. He also has the Killing Blow rule that works on creatures of any size.

Immense Stamina
Needs Fluff
The Executioner is immune to Killing Blow and Poison. He also has the Regeneration special rule.


Ok, so what do we think of that?
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Jun 9, 2009
1,547
Should he have an armor save as in the fluff it says he is clad in black armor.

I'm not sure but str 6 and a gw might be too much, but i'm not totally sure. Maby give him a special rule relating to the rope around his neck, but i can't think what at the moment.
 

Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Feb 5, 2009
2,683
Toronto, Ontario
Dread Lord - 310
M 4 / WS 6 / BS 0 / S 5 / T 6 / W 4 / I 5 / A 4 / Ld 10

The Executioner
M 4 / WS 8 / BS 1 / S 6 / T 6 / W 5 / I 8 / A 5 / Ld 10

If you compare these, there are a few things that should be toned down.

BS 0 - you aren't shooting anyways

STR 5 - even on a Special Character, this should be fine... STR 6 seems wrong, especially with a GW.

+1 Wound, Attack are fine..
+2 WS is also fine...

+3 Initiative is WAY OP. IN should be less then that of Elven Lords... I'd be good with IN 6... I'd have to think about IN 7... but IN 8 is WAY broken!
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Sorry, I should have mentioned these Dreadlord special characters are in no way similar to the generic Dreadlord option we have as a Lord choice. They are a mix of vampires, liches and in some instances enchanced humans.

Anyway in regards to Bishops comments:

BS 0 - I agree

As he has a GW that doesn't strike last I will settle for S5.

The +3 I is because Arkhan has I8 and the Executioner is meant to be similar in combat skill. I would compromise at I 7?

Might has well make a start on the Innocence (who is my favourite btw xd)

The Innocence

M 4 / WS 7 / BS 3 / S 5 (6) / T 5 / W 3 / I 6 / A 5 / Ld 10

Magic
The Innocence knows all four Rituals and may cast 2 per turn. He is also a level 3 caster and may choose from the Lore of Nagash or the Lore of Vampires. (this is explained in fluff)

Equipment
The Banishment Blade
This blade was forged many years ago by a dwarven master runesmith to combat the ever growing threat of daemons, after it was lost in battle it was recovered by a Knight of the Order of Morr and found to be as equally devastating to the forces of undead. Eventually it was taken from the vampire Milosh Cromwell when he was captured by Arkhan
Has the following runes inscribed on it:
Master Rune of Banishment - Creatures who are daemonic, have any marks of chaos, are undead or have the forest spirit rule suffer D3+1 wound per unsaved wounds.
Rune of Might - Double strength (max of 10) against Toughness 5 or more
Rune of Cleaving - +1 Strength (included in above profile)

Special Rules

Undead

Mist Form
The Innocence has the ability to change it to mist at will, enabling him to move at tremendous speeds and making him nearly impossible to attack
At the start of any turn you may nominate to use this form. Whilst in this form the Innocence has they Fly special rule and any and all attacks require a 6 to hit, this includes attacks that would not normally roll to hit such as a stone thrower. (The roll to his is made after all other adjustments and rolls). This power also negates auto or other magic items which increase the bearers toll to hit. The Innocence can also use this power to leave combat at the start of his turn, in which case he may move as normal.
However whilst in this form the Innocence may not charge, not may he attack in combat.

Typhoon
From his outstretched hands the Innocence can unleash a dark storm of power, whose winds can rip apart armour and bone with equal ease
This is classed as a shooting attack with an 18" range. Choose one unit within LOS of the Innocence. This unit is hit with D6+4 S5 armour piercing hits. The affected unit is also pushed away from the Innocence D6 inches. If this unit comes into contact with another unit (friend or foe), then that unit is also suffers the effect of the Typhoon providing it is in the 18" range. If the enemy unit is pushed into impassable terrain they do not move any further. If the unit is pushed off the board they count as having overrunning and will return in the enemy's next turn.
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Jun 9, 2009
1,547
I would go for I7 on the Executioner,

The inoccent looks good,

If he chooses the Lore of the vampires does he automatically get invocation?

Does the mist form last until the start of his next turn, if so i think he needs a disadvatage to casting while in this form otherwise he will be kept in this form casting as the genral for most the battle and be nearly unkillable, esspecially if he gets invocation so he can heal himself.
 

Sweeney Todd

Master Vampire
True Blood
Mar 9, 2008
4,034
Singapore
I don't see what's so OP about the Executioner having S6(8) and I8. Just look at WoC Shaggoths, they can get S8 with a Great Weapon and they aren't even special characters! And then there's kholek.

As for the I value, I think Bishop seriously overestimates the value of I8. The aforementioned Elf Lord won't give a shit about your I anyway since he has ASF anyway and there is no way to give the Executioner ASF. Plus this isn't 40k, where the sole factor which determines striking order is Init. In Fantasy it is my experience that Init is at best a secondary stat, and that out of the standard statline it is the I value which is by far the least used. Look at the Dwarf armybook, the Rune that gives +1I costs 5 points for a reason...

That said, the fluff doesn't depict the Executioner as being very fast or agile(I'm not saying he's slow/lumbering though), so I7 would be more appropriate. But seeing as Arkhan is meant to be an all-rounder, shouldn't he have I7 too?

As for the Innocence, does his Typhoon thing change the facing of an affected unit? Also, the Rune of Cleaving definitely seems OP.
 

Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Feb 5, 2009
2,683
Toronto, Ontario
Perhaps the reaction in regards to IN 8 largely come from the fact that I do play 40k much more, where granted IN matters a lot more. However, the fact of the matter is that it shouldn't be any faster then a HE/WE Highborn or a DE Dreadlord... not all Elven Lords have ASF :D
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Ok, so are we all ok for I7 for the Executioner?

In regards to the Innocence - yes he would know IoN. His Typoon attack would leave units facing the way they were, mainly due to simplicities sake, unless you all think the unit should now face a direction as determined by the scatter dice?

As for his mist form, how about he is limited to only casting one spell whilst in this form (not including Rituals)
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Jun 9, 2009
1,547
Yeah i think that would be fine.

If the Innocence used typhoon and pushed the enemy unit into one of your units are they then in combat? would the unit blown in count as charging? and could you use it to try and push your units into combat?

Wow thats a lot of questions

I think it should be able to push units into combat, but the unit being pushed shouldn't get charging bonuses +2 str for lance etc.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
It's good you ask all these questions, so we can make sure all angles are covered. I would say the following:

If the unit is pushed into an enemy unit and -

-The enemy unit is not pushed away (due to being outside the 18" range), they now count as being in combat though neither side counts as charging. Rank both units up front to front.
-The enemy unit is not pushed away (due to being outside the 18" range), and they are already in combat with another unit, they now count as being in combat though neither side counts as charging. The second unit remains in position (does not turn to face as per above), the first unit ranks up with their front facing the new unit.
-The enemy unit is in combat and is still in range to be pushed, the enemy unit can be pushed out of combat or left without maximum bases in BtB due to being moved.
- hits two units - both units are effected by the above.
 

Sweeney Todd

Master Vampire
True Blood
Mar 9, 2008
4,034
Singapore
Pushing enemies into and/or out of combats as a shooting attack is damn powerful IMO, especially if you shove their rear into the front of a unit you conveniently place in the correct direction. That immediately brings him up on par, if not better than Thorek and his Rune of Wrath spam. It would be better if you simply stop 1'' away from enemy units. If you want to allow the Typhoon to push units into/out of combats, you should at least allow the unit affected to take a Str test(using the lowest if there are different S values in the whole unit) to resist the push.
 

Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Feb 5, 2009
2,683
Toronto, Ontario
I say the "push" should be stopped 1" away from enemy units, impassable terrain, and the board edge. The primary purpose shouldn't be to move units all over the board causing charges, and all other forms of Chaos...
 
I would agree with Bishop on this one. If we let it push units into and out of combat it will just make it too complex, so I would say stopping 1" away from enemy units, impassable terrain, and the board edge is fair. Well, maybe off the bosrd if OK, but still, we want to keep it simple, otherwise a batle with this guy will probably have an addition of 'The Windy Phase'. and we don't want that.
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Jun 9, 2009
1,547
Yeah i agree it should stop 1" away as it would make it too complicated otherwise, the special rule is already quite long without adding what DoN wrote about moving into/out of combat.
 

doombunny666

Black Knight
Aug 8, 2009
397
UK
hi everyone this is my first post on the sight and i would just like to say that what you have so far is good very good i think something else is needed though along these lines

Ghouls-as per vc army book:the ghouls of cripple peak worshipped nagash etc...

Ghoul Pack Leader-a hero lvl character fairly bad maybe along lines of issabella von cartien cheap and cheerful special ability to let the ghouls infiltrate also i think that the special characters are very cool the one thing the vc book lacks is special characters and background

just a suggestion but maybe a rule for hating tomb kings and tomb kings hating nagash given the background between them if you like i can play test the list as it is a present i have several varied empire armies

A gun line-4 cannons-2 hellstorms

A Knightly order-big block of knights-pistorliers

A balcned army-some guns sme knights some state troops

ill help with play testing just tell me what needs doing

btw for magic banners i have some suggestions

175pts-The Banner OF Unlife:confers a 5+ward, regeneration and magic resistance 2 on the unit it is in.

20pts-Ghoul Banner: hanging meat etc.. all ghouls in the same unit becomed frenzied

you can reach me at cplwill@hotmail.co.uk:konrad::konrad::vampire3::vampire2::zombie3::Vampire1::konrad::devil::devil2::pumpkin::zombie1::skull::wow2:

sorry just liked the pictures
 

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