Legion of Nagash Special Choice - Wraithwisps

[Disciple of Nagash]

This thread is for voting on the one of the Special options for the Legion of Nagash - Wraithwisps

Please note: This is not to vote whether they fit in with the theme etc. That is what the discussion in the threads is for.

It is to check and ensure we have created fair rules that are not unbalancing, or there is not something grossly wrong that has been over looked.

This Poll will close on 23/08/09

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Wraithwisps - 85pts per base - 0-2 units per army
These dreaded creatures are amongst the most frightening under Nagash’s control. Unlike the paltry swarms of mewling spirits that the follow the armies of necromancers and vampires, these are truly the shades of death. They are the souls of killers, torturers and rapists plucked from the deepest levels of hell, and they return to attack the living with unrivalled hate.

M 6 / WS 3 / BS 0 / S 4 / T 3 / W 4 / I 3 / A 4 / Ld 6

Equipment
Ethereal Hand Weapons

Special Rules
Undead
Ethereal
Terror

Tortured Souls
Just as they were in life, these shades are full of rage and anger. They hate the living even more so and exact their revenge in an unending orgy of bloodshed.
The Wraithwisps have the Frenzy and Hatred special rules. Such is their anger they may re-roll to hit in every round of combat, plus they can never loose their Frenzy or Hatred.

 

[TMS]

Are you sure that they're supposed to be a Special Chocie? They're basically Spirit Hosts with the offensive power to rival Cairn Wraiths. Do you have any idea for unit size and other potential restrictions such as 0-1 unit per certain kind of character or something? I could see players loading up on these if not, with their infantry-shredding potential they'd prove to be quite a threat to most armies.

I'd consider dropping their Toughness to 3. If something actually manages to get past their ethereal defences it should stand a good chance of hurting them, in my opinion. Also, removing one of their base attacks (which the neverending frenzy will make up for right away) might make them a bit more modest and also keep them in line with the Spirit Hosts, having as many attacks as they have wounds.

These are just some ideas, of course. I'll put my vote to "Maybe" for now but it'll be liable to change.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

The thing is that they are not meant to be like Spirit Hosts which are quite poor. Most players do not take them.

In regards to these, yes they are better but not I feel OP. They have 5 attacks (only one more so that Spirit Hosts) and an extra point of S. But they are quite a bit more expensive, and whilst they have the ability to re-roll, they are also frenzied. This is a huge downside, the same way Blood Knights are. They can be lead around, baited etc and unlike Blood Knights they are not going to chew up everything they see.

However I would possibly look at lowering their to T3, and maybe putting a potential restriction on them.

 

[Oracle]

Yeh I'd say drop them to T3 first off, then perhaps more. People don't take Spirit Hosts because they do little damage, but they are also almost impossible to kill being ethereal, and when you make a special choice a killer ethereal unit, you just take 4 of them and there is no way the opponent has enough magic to put them all down. 2 of them could probably take a ranked unit head on, with 10 attacks with re-rolls, and str 4.

Maybe for me. Open to abuse atm and a bit too powerful.

 

[TMS]

They can be lead around, baited etc and unlike Blood Knights they are not going to chew up everything they see.

The thing which lessens the downside of frenzy for these fellows imo is that, unlike Blood Knights, there's the rather large potential chance that whichever unit that hits some baited Wraithwisps will find themselves unable to actually harm them except through CR.

Also remember that these Wraithwisps, like Spirit Hosts, have all the qualities necessary to remove ranks if they hit the enemy in the flank or rear. Now with frenzy it can certainly be avoided but it's still something to keep in mind about their overall quality.

 

[doombunny666]

very nice job i think they do need to be slightly less powerful maybe low defence if you get past the ethereal but with wight blades or great weps so they are just undead berserkers???

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

I think that you are overstating their abilities, especially saying they are impossible to kill. There are plenty of things with magical attacks, so I think there are plenty of chances to kill them.

However would you two turn your vote to yes with the following changes:

Toughness reduced to 3
Limit imposed of 0-1 with a unit size of 1-6 bases?

 

[Bishop]

To 4, Wo 4 and Ethereal is really tough... yes they are expensive... but they are alos quite offensive too.

I'd be okay with the To 3 change suggested above. Should definately be a unit size limit... possibly a 0-1 or 0-2 unit restriction.

I'll vote yes, assuming that the changes above will be made.

 

[TMS]

I'll agree with Bishop here, changing them to T3 and imposing a 0-1 restriction will change my vote to Yes.

Edit: A 0-2 restriction would also work.

 

[majinmortis]

I agree with changing them to toughness 3 for the reasons mentioned above.

I would also consider making them a rare choice if possible {or failing that limit them to 0-1}

 

[Marcus Von Drac]

Darn it!! Why didn't you people complain when we were amking these rules up!?

but yes, I can see your point. If they were reduced to T3 and had a 0-1 (even 0-2 would be fine) restriction then it's fair.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

I agree with Marcus - why did no one mention this in discussion?

Anyway, I have decreased the T to 3 and imposed a 0-2 restriction. With how expensive they are plus the frenzy I now believe it is fair.

MS - I will move your vote to yes as per your post. If the others want their votes moving to yes please say so.

 

[Bishop]

I've been pretty busy the last week or so (as I'm sure you've noticed my posting is down)...

TBH, I just missed it... it happens

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

No problem Bishop.

majinmortis - do you want your vote moving to yes?

We need more votes!

 

[Marcus Von Drac]

There you go DoN, have another yes vote.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Another bump

 

[The Dark Lord Mr Fluffy]

Rewarded with another vote

 

[Arion]

Another yes vote.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Voted Through

Poll Closed