Strigoi Playtesting Thread

[Disciple of Nagash]

Having found collecting playtesting data all in one thread a bit too confusing, I have decided to create threads for each of the Bloodlines.

In here you should post your experiences using the Bloodline stat changes, powers and optional army lists. You can also post your army lists here for feedback.

Any relevant feedback will be collated in this first post.

 

[Dreadgrass]

Had a 1500pt game today against Empire, using the Strigoi list and powers. army lists were:

MAYDREK's HOST

CHARACTERS
Maydrek the Deformed (Vampire General)
- Iron Sinews, Quicksilver, Summon Ghouls
Mardukh the Fallen (Vampire)
- Bat Form, Summon Creatures of the Night
Alahad, Bastard heir of Lord Veilen of the Border Princes
- Iron Sinews, Quicksilver, Summon Ghouls

CORE
15 Ghouls - Ghast
10 Ghouls - Ghast
20 Court of the Ghoul King - Court Ghast
5 wolves
5 wolves
10 Ghoul Skirmishers
10 Ghoul Skirmishers

SPECIAL
4 Fell bats
Varghulf

LORD BARONOHL's BORDERGUARD

CHARACTERS
Baronohl Lord of Dharenmire Border Duchy (Captain/ General)
- Dawn Armour, SoM, Barded Steed
Brother Mercy (Warrior Priest)
- Great Weapon, Armour of Meteoric Iron
Brother Grace (Warrior Priest)
- Great Weapon, Heavy Armour, Shield, Holy Relic

CORE
19 swordsmen w/ full command, 10 x swordsmen detatchment, 7 x Handgunner detatchment
19 swordsmen w/ full command, 10 x swordsmen detatchment, 7 x Handgunner detatchment
15 Flagellants

SPECIAL
5 Inner Circle Knights w/ full command, Steel standard
Cannon

RARE
15 Flagellants

I'll post as much detail as I can, since this is a playtesting post, I apologise in advance for its length...

DEPLOYMENT/ TERRAIN (my perspective)
We the Empire a hill in their deployment zone, slightly off center towards the right side of the board, there was an impassable structure hard up to the left side of the board around the center line, a forest half in my deployment zone, off center to towards the left side of the board and a forest middle right leaving a tasty avenue down the right hand side...

EMPIRE DEPLOYMENT (Right to left, my perspective)
A unit of flagellants positioned themselves so they could move to block the avenue created by the trees. The cannon went on the hill with a unit of swordsmen in front of it, a swordsmen detatchment covering its right flank and its handgunners on the hill to fire over their parent. The 2nd flagellant planted themselves solidly in the center of the Empire line, the 2nd Swordsmen unit and its detatchments lined up alongside with the Inner circle Knights deployed slightly back on the lef side, hoping to catch my varghulf... Captain went with the Knights, and a Warrior priest joined each swordsmen unit.

VAMPIRE DEPLOYMENT (Right to left, my perspective)
A unit of dire wolves to draw the flagellants out of the battle on the right flank, with my Fell bats and their vampire ready to jump over and head for the cannon. First Ghoul skirmisher unit headied themselves to head for the forward forest, my 14 Ghoul unit and their vampire deployed opposite the hill-defence swordsmen unit, the 10 Ghouls lined up opposite the flagellants, the Court and Maydrek himself formed up against the side of the forest, opposite the 2nd Swordsmen unit. 2nd unit of Ghouls deployed in the forest that was jutting out from my lines and the Dire wolves deployed on the left flank, aimed between the Impassable ruin and the forest with my Varghulf in tow... all vamps took Raise Dead for spells

1st Turn, Empire
MOVEMENT: Mainly just a shuffle around, save The Inner Circle Knights, who swung onto the flank with the ruin protecting their side, and the Flagellants moved up to plug the gap on the right side.

MAGIC: The Priests each attempted to make their units unbreakable, but got dispelled

SHOOTING: the hand gunners on the flank took a potshot at the dire wolves managed 2 hits but no wounds, the gunners on the hill were out of range and the cannon didn't bounce far enough, rolling short of my lord, though it did turn the Courtier beside him into jelly!

COMBAT: NIL

1st Turn, VC
MOVEMENT: from Right to leftmy wolves moved up to wag their tails in front of the flagellants and allowed my bats to advance up nicely, my 1st Skirmisher Ghouls unit moved up and just into the forest, the mainline shuffled forward (Im missing Ghoulkin already lol) the 2nd Skirmisher unit slinks up to the front end of their forest, the Dire Wolves moved up and angled so to protect the Varghulf's advance and to direst the knights towards the center should they try and clean them up, varghulf shuffled up between the ruin and the forest.

MAGIC: failed to add to the Fell bats, cast Invocation on the 10 ghoul unit, dispelled with 2 dice, tried to cast raise dead in front of the center unit of flagellants on 2 dice, 1st try... dispelled, 2nd try, no dice left and a new unit of 5 zombies jumped up and angled themselves so the frenzied flagellants would overrun in front of my bigger ghoul unit!

SHOOTING: ah.... what?

COMBAT: Not a sausage

2nd Turn, Empire
MOVEMENT: No charges declared, Flagellants must charge zombies, right flank flagellants must charge wolves.

MAGIC: All dispelled

SHOOTING: a Dire wolf dies from a cannonball that flies through their unit and thuds into the Varghulf, who is wounded, fails his regen, but my opponent rolls a 1 for wounds! combined firepower from the 2 handgunner detatchments guns down the remaining wolves on the left flank.

COMBAT: as expected, the flagellants destroy their targets, the right flank unit overruns off the table, and the central unit ends up parked in front of my ghouls, giving them a juicy flank charge...

2nd Turn, VC
MOVEMENT: Ghouls charge flagellants, Fell bats charge the cannon, from right to left, skirmish Ghouls slink up to the front of the forest, remaining frontline wheels around the forest and advances on the left flank swordsmen, 2nd skirmishers stay where they are, as does the Varghulf.

MAGIC: I got 1 wound added to my bats and 7 Ghouls added to my big block!

SHOOTING: ---CHIRP-CHIRP--- nothing but the crickets

COMBAT: Flagellants VS Ghouls - 2 flagellants dead by the Ghouls, 3 dead from the Vampire, 1 dead from their own special rule... UNBREAKABLE.
Cannon VS Bats - Bats kill 1 crewman, vamp kills other 3 times over, and they restrain their overrun to avoid flying off the table...

I'll do a 2nd post to break all this up a bit, next up, 3rd turn!

 

[Dreadgrass]

Okay, so to recap, combat in center right, bats w/ vamp behind enemy lines, enemy flagellants drawn out of position, I've lost my dogs, he's lost his cannon.

3rd Turn, Empire
MOVEMENT:No charges. Handgunners on the hill angle to prevent a rear charge on their parent, Inner circle re shuffle to draw a bead on the Varghulf, left flank infantry positions itself to take on my advancing units, flagellants re-enter the right flank and start the long trudge back to the battle... Flagellant champ moves within the fighting unit to get into the combat...

MAGIC: He actually forgets his magic phase but we go back and roll it anyway and I dispel it all (only 2 lvl 4 bounds really doesn't go far with 5 DD against it)

SHOOTING: the handgunners on the left flank shoot the ghouls in the forest, suprisingly felling 2!

COMBAT: Flagellants VS Ghouls - Flagellants lose 1 to their ability, champ challenges, ghoul champ accepts, rolls a poison and snuffs the flagellant, though he proves too tough to get overkill (not that it matters against unbreakable) unit kills 3, vamp goes nuts and kills the remaining 4 wiping out the unit!

3rd turn - VC
MOVEMENT: Ghouls who finished off the flagellants charge the swordsmen in front of them, the skirmishers supporting by charging the detatchment of swordsmen, and the bats charge the handgunner detatchment. I decide to force the left flank, my ghouls/ the court move up and dare the swordsmen to charge, the varghulf shuffles up in support.

MAGIC: Tried to raise a zombie unit to re-direct the Knights but it was dispelled, all Invocations either failed or were dispelled.

SHOOTING: My ghouls spat in the face of the swordsmen in front of them...

COMBAT: GHOULS VS SWORDSMEN: 1 Warrior Priest challenges and fights my Ghoul champ (was closed list and I was concerned about Van Horstmanns) ghast can't get through his armour, gets killed with a wound to spare (OK1) 2 kills from the Ghouls, 3 kills from the vamp. I win CR by 3, Swordsmen hold.
SKIRMISHERS VS SWORDSMEN DETATCHMENT: Ghouls kill 4, remaining front rank swordsmen kills 1 ghouls win by 2 (swordsmen had a rank) detatchment holds.
BATS VS HANDGUNNERS: I fluff most of the attacks, just 1 kill from the character, the handgunners do 2 wounds back and I lose a further 2 wounds to crumble...

4th turn - Empire
MOVEMENT - Unengaged Swordsmen block hits the front of the Court, with the detatchment alongside (couldn't make the flank and my other ghoul unit was in the way) Knights charge the Varghulf (made it due to his magic banner!) Flagellant unit keeps on moving toward the melee on the right flank.

MAGIC: I failed to dispel the Warrior Priest going against my Court, giving himself re-rolls to hit and wound. Other was dispelled

SHOOTING: Handgunners shoot at Ghouls, now out of the forest, killing 1 more.

COMBAT: (Right to left) SWORDSMEN DETATCHMENT VS SKIRMISHERS - Swordsmen kill 3 Ghouls, Ghouls kill 3 swordsmen, swordsmen hold
HANDGUNNERS VS BATS - Vamp kills 3 Handgunners, handgunners fluff, bats kill 1, handgunners break, overrun towards the center of the board.
SWORDSMEN VS GHOULS - Vamp accepts the Warrior Priests challenge, causes 1 wound (damn armour saves!) and takes none in return, Ghouls kill 2, swordsmen kill 1, Swordsmen hold.
SWORDSMEN/ DETATCHMENT VS COURT - Priest fights Court Ghast, Priest snots him for 1 OK, swordsmen kill 1 court, Vamp kills 2 from the parent unit, Court kills 4, 1 from the detatchment, swordsmen win by musician, 1 more court ghoul crumbles.
KNIGHTS VS VARGHULF: Knights/ character drop 2 wounds on the Varg, Varg smacks 1 in return, its not enough though and he crumbles.

4th turn - VC
MOVEMENT - BATS charge the flank of right hand Swordsmen, Skirmishers on the left charge Swordsmen flank, ranked Ghouls charge the detatchment. Everything else is tied up in CC

MAGIC - I managed to raise the 2 ghouls and champ back on the Court, the rest of my Invocations were dispelled/ failed.

SHOOTING - You get the idea by now Im sure...

COMBAT - (right to left) SKIRMISHERS VS DETATCHMENT - Ghouls finish off the detatchment.
MASSED RIGHT HAND COMBAT - charging Vamp takes down 2 swordsmen, bats fluff, vamp in challenge just manages to finish the Priest, Ghouls kill 2, swords kill 1 back, Swordsmen break and bats overrun off the board.
MASSED LEFT COMBAT - Warrior Priest smacks the Champ again, no overkill this time. charging ranked unit kills 2, charging Skirmishers kill 3, Court Ghouls/ vamp rip apart the remainder of the parent unit, detatchment runs and is caught, Warrior Priest runs and escapes!

END OF BATTLE - Warrior Priest rallies and we call it, VICTORY FOR THE STRIGOI!!!

FEEDBACK

Feedback from my opponent and mates who were watching...

ON THE VAMPIRES
Upon discussion between the group we thought they were fairly balanced, they hit hard (my 2 mainline vamps had 5 Strength 6 attacks each!) however, with only a 5+ ward they need to be protected a lot more than most frontline combat characters.

I showed them a list of the powers and they were fairly well accepted, there was suggestions that, as there was no access to magic items the vamps might tend to be weaker defensively and magically then most vamps. At small points they work well but at >2000pts and/ or against a more specialised opponent the general could be an easy target.

ON THE ARMY LIST
There were a few scoffs at first when I handed the list around (Varghulfs in a SPECIAL SLOT!!!!) until we went over it and realised theres very little high strength hitting power in the list and even less fast hitting power. There was a fair concensus who suggested that the Court be moved to Special, and maybe the Corpsecart be added (mobile buffet for the ghouls!) also people agreed that Ghoulkin would be very suiting but it would possibly need a higher points cost as theres 3 units that would benefit.

PERSONAL THOUGHTS
I like the list in general, the above reflects my thoughts fairly well as well, having more worthwhile options in special/ Rare would be good to grant a bit more variety to lists. I'd like to see the Court move to Special, corpse carts added in somewhere, and maybe another Rare option that would be inkeeping with the Ghoul feel... id like to see Ghoulkin fit in somewhere and maybe an increase in points available for Bloodline powers and maybe a few extra powers to give a bit more variety to the Vamp setups.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Thank you for the excellent batrep and the indepth playtesting comments - they are very useful indeed. Are you having another game with the Strigoi, and if so could you try and use some of the other Strigoi powers?

 

[Dreadgrass]

Hmm... I've got a couple of mates lined up to take a crack at the list at around 2250pts... might try and squeeze in a game next weekend...

I'll try and scratch up a list tonight maybe, is ther anything people would like to see tested/ fielded in particular? My aims so far would be to experiment with some of the unique aspects as compared to standard VC. Thought so far include:

- A lord with the 100pt power
- 3+ Varghulfs
- possibly Strigany but Im not a real fan, mainly due to my fluff and the Ghoulish nature of my preferred army.

Any suggestions on what else you'd like to see run? I'll be proxying a bit so anything goes pretty much!

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Well if you are looking at going for a monster mash style, perhaps you could also give one of the hero vamps the Varghkin power?

Also, how did the Bat Form power work with putting the vamp in the Fellbat unit? Was it ok?

 

[Dreadgrass]

Seemed fine, bats are a bit squishy to be any sort of heavy hitter, they ended up as more of a delivery system, getting the vampire where he was needed and helping him swat small units, though they can end up as easier CR (se fight VS Handgunner detatchment) but by the same token if the vampire fluffs and your losing the combat it helps to drop bat wounds rather than vamp ones!

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

So that power seems ok, I know it was a slight unit during development. Well, I look forward to the next report, oh and before I forget - thank you very much!

 

[Grish]

Nice report. 1500 pts is a pretty good level for this type of army. The free stat boosts on 3 heroes are extremely good. +1 A, Hatred, and 5+ ward save? Very nice. I definitely think that's close to the cost of not being able to take items. I do think that a lot of the lists will look the same; ghouls, skirmishing ghouls, fell bats, and Varghulfs to enable marching.

I also think as there's just vampires, the magic phase will be much less powerful. No bound spells, no dispel scrolls, no power stones, no black periapt. The best magic phase they could field at 2250 pts (and probably they will always have this) is 8PD and 7 DD. No scrolls, no tricks. Edit: reread the rules; does 0-1 characters per 2000pts mean you can have a necromancer? Even so, I think the hero vamps are better with their innate boosts to defence, attacks and hatred. Much better buy.

Regardless, I think of one the strengths of the Strigoi have been cheapness. They get their powers for cheap, which means more points can be spent on units.

I don't understand the power Blood Rage as QuickSilver is 20pts, has no need to inflict and additional wound, and has no penalties. Frenzy is better in other armies as it makes them ItP; here, its 30 pts for +1 Attack with a bunch of penalties. No thanks. If anything, put it in line with Sword of Battle (although it has better synergy with Iron Sinews, but carries a penalty).

I'm also very unsure about Varghkin. You would only put this on a hero, and it gives you: +1 S, +1 T, +1MV, -1 WS, -1PD, -1DD. In a magic light army, I personally wouldn't use this.

Anyways the blood lines look good, keep em coming!

 

[Dreadgrass]

@His high and mighty Pervertedness: I read the thread regarding the Batform power, and to an extent I think your right, in that having multiple vamps in the same bat unit would be OTT. Having 1 per bat unit though, allows them to fill a role as artillery hunters/ harrassment but it takes their hitting power away from the mainline... Taking 3 heroes with batform and putting them in bat units would be fun, but probably not a real feasible winning strategy... be a nice suprise attack option though!

@Grish: Im in agreement with you about Bloodrage, the upside of it though is you don't have the downsides to Frenzy until you hit CC, maybe it needs a bit of a points drop as Lizzies can get the same thing for 25pts, and they've got saurus who can take it and get all the ItP benefits and are at least as good as us in CC... I think your pretty spot on with Varghkin too, it doesn't quite seem to fill its niche as theres a pretty big downside, you loose all utility use (or a large portion in the Lord's case) to get primarily + 1 T... The strength you can get for 15pts, the Movement only really matters if your running outside an Infantry unit, and your Lord can't combine it with anything... I like the idea behind it but I don't think its overly viable...

 

[Bishop]

Yeah, the 0-1 character per 2k was to allow for a single Necromancer or Wight Lord. Though the restriction keeps them a rarity.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Hmm, it looks like some powers may need a rethink. However as I said in the other threads, I will wait for more playtesting first.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

[mod]Initial Playtesting Review[/mod]​

The below comments are a roundup of previous made comments. If a power or item is not noted below, it is either not been commented on, or it received positive comments. I have only noted the things which have been noted that need changing, or players have asked questions.

• They hit hard, but it is not balanced enough by the ward save. They still are very unprotected, and might suffer in higher pointed games.
• Possibly allow an extra allowance for Bloodline Powers due to lack of items?
• Their lack of items means they can suffer again in higher pointed games, being over powered by magic orientated foes.
• Court should be moved to special.
• A corpsecart variant should be added in – mobile buffet?
• Ghoulkin should be added in, though costed higher as more units will benefit.
• Would like to see more powers added in? Possibly to make up for lack of magic items.
  Army lists could look the same too much?
• Blood Rage is pointless, as it is only +1A with downsides. Even if Quicksliver is taken away (as per other threads suggestions), it is still too expensive.
• Varghkin is not worth it. It reduces the already very limited magic of this army, and reduces the utility use. So far not an option people would take.
• Batform would perhaps be ok to allow one vampire per Fellbat unit.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

My Thoughts

Grant lords +1 wound or perhaps a ward save of 4+

In regards the higher allowance of bloodline powers, I am not sure. What level would we set it at (125pts hero, 150pts Lord?). We would also have to check then what combos could be created.

I agree with the Court being move to special

Agree also with the CC variant, though it would have to be totally unique.

In regards to Ghoulkin & more powers, I can see the reason for this. However this would make the only list with more powers. Does everyone else think that is ok?

Blood rage – I suggest removing it entirely, perhaps replacing it would Ghoulking.

Varghkin – I really like the concept, but it does need an overhaul to better balance out the loss of PD & DD which this army would really suffer from. Not sure what though.

Batform – I think it is feasible, as if people did that it would remove them from their main army line anway. Something I think we need to playtest.

 

[Bishop]

I tried Batform in a game that I had. It was okay, nothing great, but added some nice punch to the Fell Bat unit!

Might be a good idea to raise the point allowance on the characters powers... 75 and 150 (50% increase from the normal characters)... though, yes some investigation into possible/probable combos would be needed.

Cant really comment on the rest..

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Yeah, 75pts and 150pts would be great.

Any suggestions on how to remake Varghkin to be useable?

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Bump!

Don't want to be doing this all myself.

I think looking at the list, how about considering they have no monsters, making the Varghkin not a mini Varghulf, but an Uber Varghulf? Something like:

Costs 75pts

Vampire cannot take any other powers.
Gains flying, +2S, +1T +1W +1A, vargulf special rule about not being flanked.
Looses all magic, counts as a monsters thought does not have to take reaction tests
Large Target