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michael

Zombie
Jul 14, 2014
35
Hey Guys


I've got myself a little confused and hopefully some clever people can provide some light.


When raising characters can you take magical items? My reading is that you can, the undead lore says “Summoned units can be upgraded to include any options listed in their army list entries” does this mean mundane magic items from the rule and magic items from the respective rule books (keeping with vampires only taking vampire items)


If they can my next question is does the rule about only having one type of a magical item in a game still apply to summoned characters?
If it does, what happens if say a Necro dies with night shroud on. Can I summon a new character with night shroud rule since I will still only have one type of that magical item on the field at any one time?


The reason I ask is with Nagash raising a character with 195 points he can easily raise up a support necro or two or even a Wight king to beff up black knight unit or grave guard unit.

The answer is probably pretty clear or has been disused before, but I'm simply not sure
 

Ohn

Zombie
Aug 3, 2014
34
Saguenay, Québec, Canada
This is a good question, since I didn't play with Lore of Undeath it never concern my game but I would guess that a summoned character CAN have magic items.

The second question, can you take multiple of a magical item with it? I would say no since you can only have one exemplar of each item per army... but if your necro with dispel scroll died. Can you raise it again and use his scroll again? I would say, maybe... As I read, why not... but I feel it shouldn't.
 

LordTobiothan

Crypt Horror
May 6, 2014
582
Most of your assumptions should be correct under the premise provided. Might need an FAQ or you could cast it every turn for more dispel scrolls or other 1 use items. O.o
 

heldantes

Black Knight
Oct 21, 2013
389
Oops I was going to mention the eye of the gods demon prince but that's just the same lore and mark not magic items he comes back with!
 

DanteAlSimmon

Zombie
Feb 24, 2015
49
Denmark
I would say:
"Can I raise characters with magic items?"
- Yes, it is an option in their army list entries

"Can I raise and duplicate magic items?"
- No, you can not equip a character with a magic item already present in the list, as per normal
army list entry.

"Can I raise a necro with a dispel scroll, after the wizard that carried mine dies?"
- no, the dispel scroll is present in the list.

BUT HERE IS A WORK-AROUND:

If you DONT have a dispel scroll in the army you can do this
- Summon a necro with dispel scroll
- use the scroll
- Chaff him / kill him off

NOW you are permitted to re-summon a necro with the dispel scroll,
as the scroll is not present in the list, and you do not duplicate the item.

At least that would be my RAW ruling.

I would also call it more fair, as you basically gives up the certainty that makes the dispel scroll so powerful.
 

Ohn

Zombie
Aug 3, 2014
34
Saguenay, Québec, Canada
It doesn't states "in your list" but "in your army". Same question goes to wizard's spells. You can only have a spell once per army. If you Master Necromancer die, can you raise Necromancer and get back your Vanhel's (exemple)? It's the same logic as for magical items.

It would needs a clearer definition of "in your army". Are we talking about the list or the models on the table.
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
Dec 9, 2013
1,315
As far as summoning characters with the same items after one dies, I would say its fine as long as it's not in your regular list. Remember that any wizard in any army can take Undeath and, only two armies actually have a necromancer... However, most tournaments will probably not allow this.

As far as the duplicate spells go, I asked a TO to clarify that and he said that as long as no two wizards know the same spells at the same time, it's fine, which makes sense. So if Nagash uses The Dark Riders and loses it to a rune of Spell Breaking or miscast result, he could then use The Harbinger to summon a character that knows The Dark Riders.
 

michael

Zombie
Jul 14, 2014
35
Im my up and coming game I will be playing Nagash vs Malekith the eternity king (both 1000 point beasts) as such we will be playing Kaine magic. Where everyone is a Lore master so no probs with magic, but thank you I will remember your comments for any non Kaine magic games.

Im going to have to read the main rule book for specific wording on an army only having singular magic items(no duplicates) as I feel these restrictions relate to the army you chose. Summoned units do not count towards victory points for either side, this is an example of how they are separate from the actual army.

Fluff wise the justification for only one type of magical item is that they are so rare no one army would be able to find more than one. I feel that the units summoned are typically long lost dead and are not bound by quite the same rules as the normal army.


For example of another issue. In my 3000 piont game if I’m taking 1500 points of lord choices then turn one Nagash summons a Master necro. Im now 200 points over my 50% allowance. Is this allowed?
 

heldantes

Black Knight
Oct 21, 2013
389
what a hassle it would be to have to count up your army's current point total at each stage of the game when you want to try and cast that spell! I'm sure you can cast it, especially as their points don't count.

Fluff wise, I agree to an extent, especially because although your army can only take one of the items due to their rarity, two dispel scrolls at least exist due to the other army also having one. Still, I like the connection of you raising a Necromancer up from the dead and the reason you raise that specific guy up is because he is known, and whose tomb you had ransacked long ago, and stolen his dispel scroll, etc.
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
Dec 9, 2013
1,315
For example of another issue. In my 3000 piont game if I’m taking 1500 points of lord choices then turn one Nagash summons a Master necro. Im now 200 points over my 50% allowance. Is this allowed?

Summoned units don't count for ANYTHING. They don't count for victory points or army slot requirements/maximums. If you summon a SGK with 100 points in Magic Items and 100 points in vampiric abilities riding a TG (so many tokens), he adds 0 points to your lord slot.

This is the reason that there's an issue in the first place regarding unique items. "Why pay for special stuff when I can just summon it without limit?" type things. The most common things wanting to be summoned would be dispel scrolls and bsbs.

As far as Khaine Magic goes, Nagash is at a disadvantage to Malekith because of the HE End Times Spell which prevents its target from casting for one turn and can't be dispelled. So he just has to target Nagash every turn and you're screwed. No summoning, no channeling, no anything. All Nagash would be able to do is store dice for CC.
 

LordTobiothan

Crypt Horror
May 6, 2014
582
Knowing khaine magic though. Malekith will rarely roll enough power dice on his d6 to cast the end times spell.
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
Dec 9, 2013
1,315
Knowing khaine magic though. Malekith will rarely roll enough power dice on his d6 to cast the end times spell.
Hopefully, but realistically, he only needs 4 dice to have a good chance (I think it was 21+ to cast), which is a 50% chance of getting enough dice. However, Undeath End Times Spell causes half strength for all enemy units within 24" and you can just use his stored dice if you get a bad roll for number of dice to use (assuming he gets the chance to cast)...
 

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