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Sunny & Najo’s Vampire Counts Handbook (2014)

najo

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I can get behind that. It's a shame Ghouls aren't used too much any more, getting re-rolls to hit when you've got poisoned attacks is cash money. More 6's = more automatic wounds.

/edit: I should mention that even though I love Hellish Vigor, I would also always try to get VHD on my units as a first priority. Hellish Vigor was a secondary concern in the magic phase.
So use ghouls! They come out of core. I still use ghouls. Ghouls mitigate damage better than other core and they threaten unarmored units. They synergize with VHDM great! They have champions. Just don't get caught needing a swift reform.
 

The Sun King

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Normally when I run a level 4 Vampires I really don't prioritize getting hellish. Raise Dead is GOLD, so is Vanhels and Invocation. That leaves one slot left, I often spend this on Curse of the Years (if the enemy has big units of armoured troops) or Gaze so that I can get some ranged damage output and deal with chaff/lone characters.

If you like ghouls Vanhels is must IMO. Also try running them with Dual Engines, that makes them a resillient unit: T4 5+ regen is nothing to sneeze at, especially when they raise at d6+level.
 
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So, I now own a Varghulf, I figured from an ease of use kind of rare he would be better suited to my novice ways, I regularly find myself making mistakes and my experienced dwarf player would obliterate a TG or Mortis engine with cannons (plus from a cost pov, I couldn't afford either!). Anyone use this guy have any tips? Avoid big units? Hit war machines? Flank attacks?
 
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The Sun King

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The Varghulf is a really nice standalone unit. Good movement and good survivability means that he offers you some zone control. He can easily move into position to protect or attack a flank or guard your rear while you move forward with your center. He is a bit too pricey to be a warmachine hunter, but if you get the chance get behind enemy lines and wreak havoc.
 

Seneschal

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I agree with Sun. Also, what you need to look out for with a 'ghulf are things like spirit leech and the casket as his leadership is very low. And, of course, don't let anything with static CR charge you.
 

najo

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I agree with both Sun and Sen. One of the best ways to ensure your varghulf has value is to make good use of his ability to strike on a second front. Since vampiric units are fast and can march away from your general, they can be used to flank very easily. This causes your opponent to divide his attention to deal with it. While this happens press your attack with your main force and your general. That way the varghulf either gets through or he makes an opening for another part of your main force to get through.
 

Bravo_10

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So this is.. gonna be an ultimate noob question. Sun, you talked about choosing spells as though you can simply pick them from the list. Is this the way things happen now? When I played last, every wizard randomly rolled for spells, with each spell only able to be taken once across the whole army (unless the spell wasn't rolled for, like with Loremasters or signature spells).
 

najo

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So this is.. gonna be an ultimate noob question. Sun, you talked about choosing spells as though you can simply pick them from the list. Is this the way things happen now? When I played last, every wizard randomly rolled for spells, with each spell only able to be taken once across the whole army (unless the spell wasn't rolled for, like with Loremasters or signature spells).
Spells are still chosen by rolling for one wizard at a time. You get to choose when a duplicate spell is rolled and then that wizard can swap a spell for the signature spell. You then do the next wizard the same way, but each one from the same lore is going to get easier to choose as duplicates will come up more. Since each spell can only be taken once (sigs aside) if you take a level 2 and a level 4 of the same lore and have the level 2 roll for spells first and using the signature spell to push a spell you want for your level 4 off him, you can pretty much guarantee your level 4 gets the spells you want.

Sunny is pretty much saying he prioritizes 1) Raise Dead 2) Van Hel's 3) Invocation 4) Curse of Years/ Gaze of Nagash (I agree with this prioritizing btw). So if he rolls and gets duplicates and doesn't have one of of those higher priorities, he would choose in this order. It also means if his level four ends up with hellish vigor and the rest these above, he would dump HV for IoN.
 

najo

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Also if you play with Khaine Magic (which I don't) every wizard is loremaster in his lores...
Aren't you supposed to be asleep? Ninja'ing my posts where I am replying for you is spooky! Feels like I summoned you :tongue:

And l second Sunny's sentiments on Khaine magic... big botch on GWs part.
 

The Sun King

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Indeed, I should be sleeping, but then again I should also be painting... in the end I'm not getting much done on either part. But I have gotten a little progress with my chariots :)
 

Bravo_10

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Spells are still chosen by rolling for one wizard at a time. You get to choose when a duplicate spell is rolled and then that wizard can swap a spell for the signature spell. You then do the next wizard the same way, but each one from the same lore is going to get easier to choose as duplicates will come up more. Since each spell can only be taken once (sigs aside) if you take a level 2 and a level 4 of the same lore and have the level 2 roll for spells first and using the signature spell to push a spell you want for your level 4 off him, you can pretty much guarantee your level 4 gets the spells you want.

Sunny is pretty much saying he prioritizes 1) Raise Dead 2) Van Hel's 3) Invocation 4) Curse of Years/ Gaze of Nagash (I agree with this prioritizing btw). So if he rolls and gets duplicates and doesn't have one of of those higher priorities, he would choose in this order. It also means if his level four ends up with hellish vigor and the rest these above, he would dump HV for IoN.
Oh okay, that's the way it was then too. I'm just making sure that hasn't changed, three years is a long time to be away from the game (I mean, you can now take 50 percent of your points on Lords for pete's sake).
 

najo

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Oh okay, that's the way it was then too. I'm just making sure that hasn't changed, three years is a long time to be away from the game (I mean, you can now take 50 percent of your points on Lords for pete's sake).
Lol, the 50% lords and heroes thing is not bad at all. People were worried herohammer was back, but reality is stepping up, supporting attacks and steadfast plus static combat means characters cannot bust and break units like they did in 5th ed. Regiments are still greater than characters.

All the increase does is really shift points between heroes and lords as most players see core as a tax and specials and rares are still needed and their limit capped. The exception potentially being chaos players.
 
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hers a strange thought. When I am playing with any other army, it isn't raise dead or invocation that I miss. Its Danse Macabre, the good ol creepy walk is my favourite hands down.
 

Bravo_10

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VHD was cooler when you could charge in the magic phase with it. :thumbsdown: That's easily what I miss the most about the old vamps book.

And @najo I agree, you really can't afford to spam out characters in 8th edition despite that change. However I could see it pushing the points farther towards lords, as most people would rather take multiple VL's or a VL and a Master Necro than a single lord choice and a bunch of supporting heroes.
 

Malisteen

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I remember games of 5th edition, where I would charge a unit from the front with nagash, then raise a chariot behind the unit in the magic phase, and slam it into the back of the unit with vanhel's.

Hahaha, great times.
 

najo

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When Van Hel's lost being able to chagre, it freaked me out. I mourned over it. But it was totally broken. Like totally.

Honestly, in certain ways the new one is actually better. Its cheaper, can bubble and we can easily move right up to a unit and just angle and redirect AND force them to charge us. With any unit at that. Its more beneficial for us to be charged then to charge, so all is good.
 

Bravo_10

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When Van Hel's lost being able to chagre, it freaked me out. I mourned over it. But it was totally broken. Like totally.

Honestly, in certain ways the new one is actually better. Its cheaper, can bubble and we can easily move right up to a unit and just angle and redirect AND force them to charge us. With any unit at that. Its more beneficial for us to be charged then to charge, so all is good.
The new one is definitely better in 8th edition. Having a bubble is a great way to make up for the fact that we can't have the same spell with multiple casters anymore, nor can we spam out multiple castings of Vanhel's from the same caster in a single turn.

However in 7th edition, back when we could potentially have VHD on every wizard in the army and rock out with 15 power dice lists, the old version was so much more powerful. :vampire3:
 

najo

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lol, omg. That army list took all the fun out of playing vampires. SOOOO BROKEN!
 

Malisteen

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Not just broken, but boring, with an automatic best build. It was a book full of no brainer always or naver take units and options. Bleh. The 8e book, by comparison, is really amazing for internal balance. Almost every unit has its sincere fans, and there's lots of meaningful build variety. I'll be sad to see it go.

Speaking of, you better hurry with that undead legions update, najo. Clock's really ticking, now. ;)
 

Demian

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I've just realized...

we're gonna have to write a new handbook once 9th Ed comes...

D:

I'll help with what I can
 

Adam_Barrow

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GW is kinda notorious for not having set systematic operations like that. When 6th edition came out, all the old armybooks got scrapped and a small, magazine-sized supplement was released to hold over players until their armybook was released, for example. 7th and 8th saw a slow drip of updated armybooks, with some armies stuck in an older edition book while other armies had updated rules. The Bretonnians, for example, /still/ have a 6th edition book, two editions late.

For 9th, expect to see armybooks updated one at a time every 2-4 months if they keep up their old ways. It's hard to say with rumors of model lines/whole factions changing drastically.

It's safe to assume we won't see a new book for every single army on day 1, though. Bet your bottom dollar on that.
 

The Sun King

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The 9th edition handbook will not be as much work, I think, because we can just update each entry so that it fits 9th edition, we don't have to write a new handbook from scratch :)
 
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