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Templates and units in buildings.

Blutsauger

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Apr 10, 2013
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1,091
#1
A situation came up in a game today where my opponent wanted to use a template spell against a unit in a building. I pointed out the rule in the buildings section where a WEAPON that uses a template will only inflict D6 hits on a unit in a building. He stated that a spell wasn't a weapon, and that the template would hit all 42 of my models in the building.

I hummed and hawed a bit, and in the end it didn't matter because the spell was dispelled and even if it wasn't it would have been out of range, but for the next time this comes up, does a vortex spell that passes over a building hit every model inside, or just D6? And is there a page reference or FAQ (not that the FAQ's exist at the moment) to point my opponent to?
 

Lynks

Lord of RAW
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#2
Another interesting question, i'll look into it when i get home tonight however my initial response would be that if a template spell does not inflict d6 hits, then rather than inflicting hits to every model it would hit none at all. Templates determine hits by the models touched by the template and, while in a building models do not exist on the board, so they can't be touched-the unit exists, and is inside the building and can be hit but the models don't
 

eggsPR

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#3
Lynks said:
Another interesting question, i'll look into it when i get home tonight however my initial response would be that if a template spell does not inflict d6 hits, then rather than inflicting hits to every model it would hit none at all. Templates determine hits by the models touched by the template and, while in a building models do not exist on the board, so they can't be touched-the unit exists, and is inside the building and can be hit but the models don't

Any template hitting units in building hit D6 models.

PSun? D6 Initiative
Pit of Shades? D6 Initiative
5-6 of Miscast? D6 S10
Wind of Death? D6 S3
Vermintide? D6 S2
Crackskull? D6 Initiative
Cannon? D6 S10 (doing D6 wounds per model, if multiwound)
Grudge Thrower/Treb/Rock Lobba/Hellcannon? D6 (1 S10, remaining S3-5, though I MAY be incorrect on this, maybe all S10)

MMs are different
2d6 fireball? 2d6 S4
Banishment? 3d6 (if undead/Daemonic) S4 (if no other light wizards nearby caster)

DD is different
Dwellers? All
Final Trans? All
Dreaded 13th? 4d6 (if infantry)
Fiery Convocation? All
Curse of Years? All

It's also worth noting that if the unit has enough models to grant a Look Out Sir roll, then no characters are threatened (don't even need to take the Look Out Sir roll) by these spells (except the ALL spells). They usually only kill plebs.

Hope this helps.
 

Lynks

Lord of RAW
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#4
Looking through the rules, there are only references to how to resolve template weapons, not spells which touch a building and there is nothing relevant in the FAQ that I could find. I believe this question has actually come up before and came to a similar resolution.

The intent is quite obvious that templates deal d6 hits on units in a building however if we are talking rules as written then no hits will be assigned for the reason I stated above (apart from wind of death). In no case would the entire unit be hit by a template spell.

If you choose to argue that no hits are assigned you aren't a very nice person, the best course of action is (and is the way I'm sure practically everybody plays because they just assume it to be so) is that spell templates deal 1d6 and I do not think you would find a tournament judge you could convince otherwise despite the raw.
 
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
36
#5
It is D6 for a template even from spells.

The answer is not really hidden. It is under the Buildings section.
There is a section called "Buildings and Magic"


"Buildings do not offer any additional protection against magic missiles, spells that affect the entire unit, that target individual models, etc. Spells that use templates and damage inflicted by Miscasts will follow the rules given later for templates, hitting D6 models."
 

Lynks

Lord of RAW
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#6
huh, oh well, thanks willis, just another case of GW being silly with their book layout/ indexing then.
 
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Feb 14, 2012
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#7
No problem. Heh, Yeah the BRBs rules are sometimes so jumbled that it is easy to overlook something while searching for the answer in someplace obscure.

The only reason I remembered was because I just had a similar situation in a game we played this weekend and had to look up the same rule.
 

eggsPR

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#9
Spoke with friends, a stone thrower hits D6 models in a building, all suffering the S10 hit :)
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
199
#10
Willis_Zen said:
It is D6 for a template even from spells.

The answer is not really hidden. It is under the Buildings section.
There is a section called "Buildings and Magic"


"Buildings do not offer any additional protection against magic missiles, spells that affect the entire unit, that target individual models, etc. Spells that use templates and damage inflicted by Miscasts will follow the rules given later for templates, hitting D6 models."
I LOVE YOU FOR THIS!
I spent ages trying to find this after I got into a heated argument about how EXACTLY template spells did D6 wounds and not the entire unit!
Now I finally know where to look and PUNCH that dork in the jimmies!
YES!
 
Joined
Apr 28, 2013
Messages
708
#11
I am going to go way off topic with this but im gonna do it anyway:

I think ive been screwed by my opponent dwarf lately.
We were playing the watchtower scenario. He had his rangers 1" from the tower, i block his movement with wolves and put them 1" away.
In his turn he reforms his unit and wheels his unit a little which makes him contact the building and so he claimed he entered it.

While doing this it is unavoidable that a small bit of his unit is actually moving within the 1" that separated us, my conviction is that this is not allowed and therefore he was not allowed to enter the building at all.


(the only link here is obviously the building issue :D )
 
Joined
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Messages
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#12
Skittelz1981 said:
I am going to go way off topic with this but im gonna do it anyway:

I think ive been screwed by my opponent dwarf lately.
We were playing the watchtower scenario. He had his rangers 1" from the tower, i block his movement with wolves and put them 1" away.
In his turn he reforms his unit and wheels his unit a little which makes him contact the building and so he claimed he entered it.

While doing this it is unavoidable that a small bit of his unit is actually moving within the 1" that separated us, my conviction is that this is not allowed and therefore he was not allowed to enter the building at all.


(the only link here is obviously the building issue :D )
1" Rule is unavoidable, your thinking is right.
 
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