The Lunacy of Sanai - Warning: Content and Language May Offend

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Sanai

Stylish Deviant
True Blood
Oct 30, 2009
5,193
Behind Darvy
Zombies
4,233
Here are the inane ramblings of Sanai.

Me, you, them, they, us, we.
All so full of shit.
We watch our tvs, troll the internet, and play with toy soldiers.
We talk on the forums, text on our phones, and touch ourselves.

What the fuck are we doing? What the hell are you doing sitting around at home and going to work and being like everyone else? Why are the streets empty? WHY ARE THERE NO RIOTS? Something is bloody wrong here. Children starve and die everyday, and are killed, enslaved, raped, neglected and mutilated everywhere. Yet we happily and comfortably eat our meals and sit like slugs and do what we are told. So much is wrong in the world, so much wrong is even done to us! Why are we not revolting?

Tune in next time for more insane ramblings.
 
RE: The Lunacy of Sanai

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RE: The Lunacy of Sanai

That's not lunacy Bro (yes, Bro!), you talk sense. A couple of friends of mine were protesting against the (far right anti-me-&-all-my-friends) English Defence League, a few people got arrested including the leader of the anti-fascist group, which pisses me off. What also pisses me off is that there's no candidate for my party of choice here, and the fact I'm too bleedin' lazy to make my voice heard. The last part I can do something about.
 
Why? Because we are comfortable and safe. Oue ancestors fought and shed blood for the rights we are so used to. they wanted something to better themselves and died to do it. they had riots and wars over it. and now we have it we are quite happy to allow those in power to try to take it away because we are safe. I have my meal and my warm house.
They say that we are three warm meals away from anarchy. they are right, take away those comforts and we would take to the streets. but we have them and so i sit here in front of my big tv, cental heating, coffee machine, microwave and i paint my little men that will achive nothing in this world but my own happiness and i allow all those things to go on. Why would people fight and die when they can sit at home and watch jeremy kyle.
 
There's a lot of things being assumed there.................

Not everybody sits like slugs eating microwave meals.............

There is actually a lot going on, but I agree there should be more of it, and it shouldn't be so underground...

The thing is, you got to care and have knowledge about what you're protesting about, or it's just pointless, the amount of students I see leaping onto bandwagons they're entirely misinformed about pisses me off entirely. Therefore I'm very hesitant to join any form of lynch mob without the facts......... everyone harks on about the "olden days" where it was great la de da... but it wasn't.... it was a lot of hippies off their tits ranting about stuff they didn't have a clue about.

modern society is stagnant, stale... but if you hate it so much why aren't you doing something about it?


there's a lot of shit in the world, theres not masses we can do without just getting very depressed which is why people switch off, but pick one or two causes you really care about, and do something active in it, then you've become part of a solution.

Stop sitting in front of the telly/internet/phone and go out and do something positive, there's nothing stopping you.

I didn't own a telly in my last place I lived and it was awesome... it meant I watched things I wanted to watch, when I wanted to, so I watch something like an hour or half hour on iplayer once a week and that's it... I have a telly in this place but I haven't touched it, and have no desire to (can;t get rid of it, shared house!) I need to curb my internet though... once I'm finished this project I'm going to get a timer set so I don't waste lots of time idly clicking, which I admit is my major downfall.


Go outside, take a different route home, meet new people, find a new hobby..............


Theres a million different opportunities out there.... most of them involve GETTING OUT OF THE HOUSE.... it makes life so much more interesting.

I purposefully put myself in situations that are miles away from my comfort zone just for the challenge, it's scary at first but you feel such a sense of achievement and it opens up so many different doors to life.

Hope that helps and doesn't feel too nagging, I'm not a wallow in self pity kind of person :clown:
 
I don't go out and riot as I'm a cynical realist. One thing, if nothing else, that I learned while getting my degree in history is that there is, and always will be, pain and suffering in this world. There are times where the amount of it rapidly increases, yes. The world today, is generally better than it has been in the past. Part of this is due to technology allowing basic necessities to be much cheaper, and more easily mass produced. Part of it is due to more international cooperation than in the past. As a whole, people in democratic societies are basically more free than people in the same society was 100 years ago. Certain laws may change, but as a whole they are.

Plus I hate it when people say "We shouldn't do X because of problem Y". If X is good in some shape or fashion, accept that Y exists in move on... as these critics will always find something else to be Y, as they often seem to want perfection before people can move on with X. I don't think these people have bad intentions, quite the opposite, I just don't think it is all that practical.

Why governments can be good

I'm generally pro-government for basic philosophical reasons. We exist in societies with laws, and empower the government, in order to reduce crime/vigilantes, etc. Only by empowering a government (to a degree) can we maintain our own freedoms. It is a balance, yes, but it is true. Without letting police have some power, they can not protect. The government can, and sometimes does, fix problems in society that need to be addressed. Such as civil rights, workers rights, the slave trade, etc, etc, etc.

Annie is right. Focusing on all the problems is overwhelming and counterproductive. We exist with governments, and most democratic style governments are still fairly free... I hate this constant drivel about how we're all controlled etc... if that were true than we'd still be harping about Communism and a whole bunch of other stuff from the 50's/60's. The basic fact, and strength, of a democratic style of government is flexibility. The proof of this is change over the long haul, and when you look at it over a few decades you can see that change clearly. The problem is with a lot of college aged people is they don't think over that kind of time span.

Randomly marching, waving signs, etc does not accomplish anything. If something matters to you, run for office. Work for someone running for office you agree with. Work for an organization that advocates your views, etc.

So use that system, the governments and societies in which we exist, to address one or two specific problems. My sister is a perfect example of this. She is a lawyer for migrant farm workers. She fights for their rights, but she does so in the court of law, where our society grants power. As a lawyer, she can influence those we have empowered (a judge) to either get penalties leveled on the abusers. This can also bring about further investigation, or challenge a law which might undermine the rights of these workers or over empower those that abuse them.

Why am I content?

I accept the fact and live my life contently because those that I personally care about are safe, living comfortable, and live in some of the societies that offer unparalleled freedom ( the USA, Netherlands, and Italy) to its members. We could debate the finer points of democracy, capitalism/socialism, or freedom, but relative to most of the world/history we're doing very well.

I am involved in politics to a degree. It matters to me. I work withing the system, and I see myself as being more effective for it. I will probably be working over time for my congressmen (Paul Ryan) as while I've supported him in the past, recently he has become my hero on the political stage.

As I said, I'm a cynical realist. I accept the fact there are horrible things in this world. Partly because I know, to a degree, it would be a game of whack a mole to try to make the whole world decent and well off. Partly due to my knowledge that this has always been true. Partly because I know the moment we (being the UN, my country, whatever) try to interfere... history will repeat itself and it probably won't end well.

Countries operate on "enlightened self interest". The first priority is to take care of their own, as it should be. The second is based on the countries they consider allies (and I use the term allies loosely), making sure those that they have significant ties to are relatively safe and secure. Finally, if they deem it practical and fixable, they deal with problems they find horrific. Usually these problems exist between countries... and the international community has to act as "the higher authority". Either that, or is a problem which could potentially effect them either directly, in time, or as a potential chain reaction. This, obviously, doesn't always work out that way... but that's the trend of how they do operate.

Why I don't feel bad for enjoying seemingly trivial and silly things
I play Warhammer, read books, I'm looking forward to going to my first concert in my life (and I'm going with my girlfriend), I enjoy museums, etc. While these are largely luxurious, and something someone in my position (first world nation/middle class) can enjoy with ease, I don't feel one bit guilty. Why? It seems awfully arrogant to artificially hold myself down/sacrifice/whatever because someone in the world is suffering. It seems like that would insult them if I didn't appreciate and enjoy the life I have available. They'd be insulted if I turned down such opportunities, as they don't have that choice themselves.

Yes, I enjoy being able to have some sort of food (be it an orange, trail mix, tic tacs, a sub with bacon, or a piece of chocolate cake) just because I like the taste of it. I'm grateful, but I don't feel guilty at all. If someone in an area that was going through famine saw someone, in my position, refusing to eat (when they wanted to do so) because someone is starving... they'd probably be mad and see me as a self righteous jerk! Note, I'm not really defending wasting food, mind you...

All in all
I'm relatively happy in life. Do I have things in my life that get on my nerves, worry me, depress me, etc? Yes, everyone does. Do I know people have it much worse? Yes, but the various things that worry/depress/get on my nerves directly effect me or those I care about and therefore I react. It's not selfish, it is just realistic. It doesn't do any good to worry about people I don't even know.

What a lot of people seem to have a hard time understanding is you can not like something that is going on, such as all the horrible things that are going on, but accept their existence. It isn't cowardly, or moral bankruptcy... it's just admitting that they can't fix everything and that it may be an issue that is out of their ability or scope to fix. So worry about the things, in your own life or others, that you *can* do something about. They might seem more trivial compared to bloodshed and other suffering, but addressing them still will make an improvement in people's lives.


Edit:

Also fixing some of these problems while forsaking basic operations (maintaining an economy, keeping people employed, keeping the ability to protect the society, etc, etc) could be pointless if as a result your society falls apart... fixing such an issue doesn't matter in that case...
 
Yeah im totally with you on everything sanai, its just hard to find like minded people and if you voice these sorts of opinions too much out among the sheep it doesnt look so good

People that share the same thoughts and opinions as us need to band together in solidarity...i thought a long time ago the internet would do that but its sure taken its time

You cant totally blame everybody tho, the opression that is forced down upon us has had a long time to instill fear and self preservation ideas within us that make it hard for us to just go out there and riot.

Theres lots more everyone can be doing and its high time we start
 
I think I'll go ahead and agree with most of what Swissdictator wrote in his long and worthwhile post above. When it comes to the situation of the world outside my own, I think that I can honestly say that I just don't care very much for it, as selfish as that must sound.
 
When can I say about all this? I live in Greece. The name of my country is played on every TV channel these days and I am talking about the downfall of my country's economy and the loans we try to get in reasonable prices. People here are getting angry day by day because our politicians and the ways they have ruled brought my country in this situation. I am logical, I know that politicians, laws, governments and all these things are necessary in order every society to be steady, prosperous and all that. Everybody looks his small social background(family, friends, relationship etc) and everything is OK for him then he does not care if a war rages on in Cambodia, Afghanistan or whatever. To sum up, all I would like is to see politicians pay their price for their mistakes, to go to the court for every scandal (economical, political) like all the common people. At least in Greece I have not seen at least one time one politician going to jail because he did something illegal and I am really pissed off about that.
 
FIGHT THE POWER!!!!!!!!! YEAH!!!!!

Isn't that what I'm expected to say??

Seriously, just my own opinion, but I tend to think that people that want to 'fight the system' and riot and create a 'brave new world' are just people who don't want to take responsibility for their own lives and their own paths that they have chosen, and want to look for someone and something to blame, as well as an excuse to go out and cause a whole bunch of trouble.

Albeit, I'm a westerner, an Australian, as Sanai is, so I think that I have it pretty damn good compared to some and don't see the point to what Sanai is saying.

I mean, your call to revolt Sanai.... what the fuck is that going to contribute?? You're not happy with the way the world is or how you apparently see it, then what the fuck are you personally doing to try to change it?? And no, I don't see revolting and rioting as being a contribution to society. I see it as the actions of the ignorant, ill thought out with no thought to what they are actually doing.

You want to change the world? Then start with your own life, that is what you truly have control over.

I also love how the people calling for riots and anarchists love to refer to people as sheep, when, well lets look at it... people who riot follow a mob mentality and just get caught up in and follow the fever and emotions of the small few who instigate the trouble in the first place... baaaaahhhhhh!!! :P
 
witchking1980 said:
At least in Greece I have not seen at least one time one politician going to jail because he did something illegal and I am really pissed off about that.

Hmm I wonder how the UK is doing then, assuming even the Dutch know about their latest money spending scandals.

I mean, tax-payed bath ducks? Buying a house for your sister on taxes from the people? Seriously, it's a wonder it didn't explode over there.
 
darknesseternal said:
Seriously, just my own opinion, but I tend to think that people that want to 'fight the system' and riot and create a 'brave new world' are just people who don't want to take responsibility for their own lives and their own paths that they have chosen, and want to look for someone and something to blame, as well as an excuse to go out and cause a whole bunch of trouble.

Your whole rant is overly presumptuous and actually rather insulting

I'll have you know i do rather well for myself (previously broke 6 figures before this recession). But i wasnt always well off, i lived in a house with 12 foster children, my grandmother and ucle got my social insurance number for me, (or ssn for americans) and decided to use it to no good, wheni turned 19 i was 30 grand in debt and i could do nothing about it except charge my grandmother with fraud.

I managed to make a way for myself, and live a rather good life.

How dare you make your assumptions about me, that i must need to look for someone to blame for my own problems?

im sorry, perhaps i just dont think we should turn a blind eye to quite obvious corruption within our governments. It is FACT that high levels of corruption exist here in my country.

We hear about schemes and payoffs all the time, and what ever happens to those reposinble? nothing. You realise your just paying these people to behave poorly? to spend your money unwisely and to make changes that benefit only them?

IT IS YOUR CIVIC DUTY TO FIGHT YOUR GOVERNMENT

there is no authority above the government BUT the people, if we sit back and ignore all the shit they do, they'll just get away with it (like they have)

It has nothing to do with making a brave new world, or fighting the power

It has to do with the fact that its your duty to keep these people in check!!! would you hand a total stranger 20 percent of your cheque if he told you he knew how to invest it wisely! without checking in on it and making sure its all kosher? of course not

You dont know these polititians personally, they arent your friends, what, we can trust them more than strangers with our money...why?

because they dont lie?
because they dont scam us?

Rofl...yeah ok

You keep buying into thier crap they shove down your throats, you keep worrying about yourself and your own life and see what kinda world we leave our children.

Im sorry, i'll never put up with it
 
Zanos said:
...TL;DR, summary please?

I'm sorry, but that is a rather useless, possibly offensive comment. Do not do that again. If you don't care to read it, do not comment at all

I agree with beeblicon. The government isn't our best friend (just like the police is neither). They have to do their jobs. And even if the country is one of the richest, care must be taken to ensure it is maintained and not wasted by corruption and malcontent.

A government is needed to run things properly, but when things go corrupt, it is starting to get counter-productive. It is said that the Netherlands has a good economy, but I don't trust those politicians one bit. The economy is but a delicate thing, the whole world has been, and still is, experiencing this today. We should, as a people, make sure that this either never happens again or happens less.

The government will have a main role in this, but it's our job to supervise the whole thing.
 
After finally reading this thread I'll say I agree mostly with what Swiss said.

For my own personal points.
Most of the time when I see people protesting and rioting for X reason against Y group I tend to feel annoyed, I find most of these tend to be anti-productive especially when they do it in ways that violate the law.
This could be because I am pro-government sure, it could be because I prefer order to chaos.

modern society is stagnant, stale... but if you hate it so much why aren't you doing something about it?

I can't agree with this, I find society to be still advancing, cultures change as do simple things such as tastes in fashions and art.
Science (which out of all the points I'll admit this is the only one I care enough about to pay attention to) is also advancing at a remarkable pace and I feel these things are import parts of our society.


Now, when I think about it, my objection to some of these things I think comes from my upraising.

Some of you may know Northern Ireland was and still is a rather divided country along two wide borders which we are sadly mostly born into.

These generally are directed by religious concerns.
Cathoics: Nationalists, anti-UK want their "freedom" and independance back, see themselves as Irish.
Protestants: Unionists, Pro-UK, like being apart of the UK, do not want to be apart of the Republic of Ireland and see themselves as British.

Now this is a very VERY generalised statment so do not be taking it as anything.

So despite the Troubles era being gone there is still alot of hate-violence amongst these two groups.

I can easily say I was raised in the first group and have alot of friends in that group, I however was raised to not care about the politcal enviorment, I also took it on myself to become an Atheist and so Relgion and my country's Politics mean little to me.
I feel no attachment to my country, indeed my sense of patriotism extends to preferring people to refer to me as Irish and not considering myself British.

That's it.

I think due to my raising and mentality (purposely avoiding the hates that caused many of my family members and friends and their families to be hurt in past years and even recent ones) has left me with an attitude of "I don't care" or a "Just bequiet and accept it" because I find it hard to imagne large scale protesting not leading to violence which I abhor.

Now don't get me wrong, I would protest against or even fight for something I felt strongly in.
My problem is I find it difficult to find myself strongly caring about issues that arise today (and seem to be becoming increasingly popular).

I can also say, in a positive light for those who do care, Resisting and speaking against the Government doing things you disagree with or protesting against companies that are harming something you feel strongly for that the numbers of those who do care seem to grow everyday.
At least from my P.O.V

On a final Note: Apologies if I ranted or went of topic, t'was not my intent.

"Viewpoints in this belong to Adam(tm) and are not representing any stuffs belonging to others, kk?"
 
First of all let me say that I am a patriot and that the union between England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland is probably one of the few things I believe in. The day that we cease to be the United Kingdom is the day the rest of the world enslaves us and our unique cultures and way of life disappear for ever. I'm not bothered about religion as my loyalty goes beyond something so trivial. When I look at an irishman I don't immediately think of him as protestant or catholic. I think of him as a neighbor as we both come from the same group of islands.

The point is that English, Scots, Welsh and Irish peoples are stronger when on the same side working towards the same goal. You may have noticed that when we were doing that we ruled a quarter of the globe and a third of the entire world population and we didn't even have to commit acts of genocide to do it.

It should also be pointed out that we managed to do it with a standing army of around 150,000 men plus perhaps double that amount of foreign auxilaries. Thats how strong the British people are. No one ever heard of the English Empire, Scottish Empire, Welsh Empire or Irish Empire but everyone has heard of the British Empire.

I wasn't taught any of this I learned it all by myself. Without I might add the help of the American film industry which has done its best to demonise the British in everyway shape or form. To try and right that wrong I will attempt to give our side of the story.

1. Here I will start with the American war of independence which was supposed started by the unjust oppression of the Evil British who apparently herded people into churches and set fire to them.

The war actually started because the Americans didn't want to pay their taxes. Which we needed to pay the soldiers who were protecting the colonies from the French. Is it really so much to ask that the colonists contribute to their own defence? It also started because we restricted the colonists attempts to move inland which would have brought them into conflict with the indigneous peoples. You Americans might remember them by the non pc term Indians. The ones you did your best to wipe out whilst preaching about Liberty for all.

2. Africa it used to be such a nice place of course that went down the drain after we left. Apartheid took hold after the British removed itself from the continent. I don't give a damn about skin colour even if some do. Lets look at Rhodesia now known to some as Zimbabwe africa's breadbasket until some idiot decided that it was more pc for a black man to rule an african nation than a white one. It is now the most impoverished nation in africa still never mind at least the whites are not in charge. I'm sure the starving masses must be over the moon with that.

3. Slavery yes that old chestnut. I'm told we must all say sorry and beg for forgiveness. Well heres something for all of those who think that. Howabout NO!!!!!!!!!!!! Slavery was indeed a terrible crime to commit but I'm going to point out that though the British were slavers for a time. We went through an Age of enlightenment and we stopped it and even went to war to stop other countries who it might add were far worse when it came to the treatment of slaves from doing it. We did our part. We set the gears in motion if the descendants want apologies then to talk to France, Spain and Portugal there the ones you want not us.

Thats many years worth of frustration out of my system now.:D The fact remains that my people have done great things for this world so damn well acknowledge that and when I say people I mean all denisens of the British Isles plus the peoples from all over the world who continue to remain part of the commonwealth and swear loyalty to Queen Elizabeth II (God Bless Her) The true First Lady as she is considerably better than all the so called Presidents, Prime Ministers and governments who have just got too big for own boots and have forgotten that they exist to serve the people not themselves.

I Thank You!
 
Simon von Carstein said:
The point is that English, Scots, Welsh and Irish peoples are stronger when on the same side working towards the same goal. You may have noticed that when we were doing that we ruled a quarter of the globe and a third of the entire world population and we didn't even have to commit acts of genocide to do it.

No you didn't commit genocide, but you did pluck half Africa empty of people, so called slaves, just like the Spanish, French, Portuguese and Dutch did. There is no lack of evidence of that. You ruled a quarter of the world, but did you bring prosperity to all of those lands? No you didn't. Half of the empire was acquired to steal their resources like gold, ivory and diamonds and people to work as slaves in the other half of your empire!

It's rediculous to hint at 'we were better off' in that time era as an united British Empire, because only the British prospered because of it. Let me give you some proven facts.

India was abused and surpressed to provide tea and spices, their slaves and black slaves having to cool down British officers with palm leaves, because they were so 'overheated' there in India. Meanwhile, you produced your products and send them right back to India to be sold at rediculous prices, all the time the workers, or slaves, receiving minimal money and food to sustain themselves and had to buy the products they produced themselves!

Africa was ripped from resources. Diamonds, gold, ivory. No land was safe for your empire if they heard there were valuable resources to be found. The Zulus are a great example. Elephants were also killed by many imperialists, only for their most wanted ivory. Slaves were taken from the lands. Despicable, I say.

America, ah yes the promised land. You say that Americans killed off the Indians, but the British helped just as much. Wasn't it the Bristish who pushed them back into the west? Wasn't it the British who tried to 'persuade' and corrupt the Indians to help fight the French in Canada? The British Empire killed Indians too, and ultimately led to their near-extinction, just as much as the Americans did.

Must I also remember you about the Opium War? A war started by the British Empire who wanted to keep selling their addictive drugs to China (who didn't want that anymore)? Of course the British Empire won the war and were able to addict half the country.

And these are just a few of the horrible things that went on in the world at that time.

Simon von Carstein said:
2. Africa it used to be such a nice place of course that went down the drain after we left. Apartheid took hold after the British removed itself from the continent. I don't give a damn about skin colour even if some do. Lets look at Rhodesia now known to some as Zimbabwe africa's breadbasket until some idiot decided that it was more pc for a black man to rule an african nation than a white one. It is now the most impoverished nation in africa still never mind at least the whites are not in charge. I'm sure the starving masses must be over the moon with that.

Blacks weren't considered first class citizens in the first place. They had to be taught the Western European way, learn the language and lose all the African tradition. Teach them and dress them the same way. The British and French Empire killed what was called the African tradition, and with that, their way of living. And now they were gaining independence, they didn't even remember their old ways because of centuries of oppression. Not one of them knew how to run their country, now modeled into Western European style, effectively, because they were never let into governement positions (or, in fact, any important position). What did the British do? Leave them alone as fast as they could. Once again, it's the British Empire's fault many of the African countries fell into poverty.

Apartheid existed in South Africa, and who runned the country? You guess it right, it were white people. Not necessarily British, still white. But as I wrote in the above paragraph, the British Empire considered blacks at least second rank citizens, if not worse.

Simon von Carstein said:
3. Slavery yes that old chestnut. I'm told we must all say sorry and beg for forgiveness. Well heres something for all of those who think that. Howabout NO!!!!!!!!!!!! Slavery was indeed a terrible crime to commit but I'm going to point out that though the British were slavers for a time. We went through an Age of enlightenment and we stopped it and even went to war to stop other countries who it might add were far worse when it came to the treatment of slaves from doing it. We did our part. We set the gears in motion if the descendants want apologies then to talk to France, Spain and Portugal there the ones you want not us.

Have you ever seen a country go to war for such a noble thing? Stop countries using slavery? Give me a break. The only reason the British went to war was because the countries who still hadn't abolished slavery were arch-enemies of the British. The British, realizing that their power will weaken over time, would do anything to be recognized a superpower. And in effect, gain more control.

I don't want you to beg for forgiveness or say sorry. I want you to realize how it had come to it, and that such things should never happen again. The same with Hitler in WO II, don't stand there are a flock of sheep and let a extreme nationalist take over the country.

Simon von Carstein said:
Thats many years worth of frustration out of my system now. The fact remains that my people have done great things for this world so damn well acknowledge that and when I say people I mean all denisens of the British Isles plus the peoples from all over the world who continue to remain part of the commonwealth and swear loyalty to Queen Elizabeth II (God Bless Her) The true First Lady as she is considerably better than all the so called Presidents, Prime Ministers and governments who have just got too big for own boots and have forgotten that they exist to serve the people not themselves.

Well I hope I haven't grown your frustration again. You're people have done great things, but not necessarily the right things. Just like the Dutch, but I don't boast about it (and I won't). And I won't go beg you for doing more great things. ;)

Ehm, also, I feel that the Dutch queen is a lot more closer to the people than the British Queen, considering that on her birthday she and the Royal family visits a city, wave to people and shake their hands, without any protection even within 5 meters. Beat that.

We've got very liberal government too. I heard the British Parliament and Ministers seem to roll in money scandal, one after the other, so I'm pretty sure we beat that too. ;)
 
Ok, maybe not need but I am going to step in here, and pre-empt any escalation at this point.

This thread is starting to go off tangent, and also starting to say things which various different countries will find insulting.

Please ensure you posts are tactful, and not designed to insult, and I do not want anyone starting a flame war.

I will be keeping a close eye on this thread, so bear that in mind before you post.

I do not want any agressive arguments.
 
There is no argument this is simply a healthy debate about real events and peoples opinions. All Viewpoints are valid.

Incidentally King George III famed for his madness was also one of the nicest monarchs the British ever had and he was out there meeting his subjects right up close shaking hands and even going round their houses for dinner nearly two hundred years ago with no protection what so ever. Consider yourself beaten Master VampirexD
 

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