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The other Trickster Shard

Aug 24, 2010
I usually play against a HE with my VC and for long his Phoenix Guards have stood against my GG unit and hold their ground with ward save. Trying to break through them I´ve started to play with a Ghoul king with trickster shard etc.

Now the question is about Dividing attacks, BRB says if you add the errata:

"If a model is touching enemies with different characteristic profiles, or two or more characters or units with the same characteristic profiles, it can choose which one to attack when its turn to strike comes"

Does the re-roll ward save change the Phoenix Guards profile?


True Blood
May 15, 2008
It doesn't. They get their ASF swings (except they won't get their rerolls against the SGK since his initiative is higher) then you get yours and they have to reroll successful ward saves.
Happy killing of T3 elves.

Vampire Ron

Grave Guard
Sep 28, 2011
I'm not sure, but I believe your question was that if one model in your unit has the OTS, how do you go about resolving the rest of your own unit's attacks, seeing as some of the models have to reroll wards, and some don't. If it wasn't, then that is my new question, as this came up in a game recently and I had no real answer.
Apr 24, 2012
I've always played it that any model who is in base contact with an enemy who is simultaneously in base contact with an ally with the Other Trickster's Shard has that enemy model re-roll successful ward saves against their attacks too.

To use a simple example: You have a Strigoi Ghoul King, who's between two Grave Guard, Bill and Ted. The Ghoul King, Alf, has brought his Other Trickster's Shard to the battle, and the three chums are in base contact with a unit of High Elf Phoenix Guard (The Ellyrian Tootlers).

Now, of course, the Phoenix Guard will need to re-roll their successful ward saves against Alf's attacks, but also against Bill and Ted's attacks, since the models Bill and Ted will choose to fight will also be in base contact with Alf. If there were 3 more Grave Guard, Finley, Barry, and Sam, they -wouldn't- have the Phoenix Guard they attack re-roll successful ward saves because the Phoenix Guard they can elect to attack are not in base contact with Alf, Mightiest of Ghouls.

I'd draw a diagram in MSPaint, but it'd be too confusing, and would probably have some kind of political nuance to it...
Aug 25, 2009
You can always allocate attacks from your unit who are capable of hitting the models effected by the shard.

Against regular sized infantry and you are at least 5 wide or larger you can nominate a maximum of 14 models (horde) against said unit and 9 if not in horde.

x x x x x x x x x x x
x x x x x x x x x x x
x x c x x x x x x x x

x x x x x
x x x x x

The c is the character with the shard, and the bottom x's is the enemy unit. Hope this helps!
Feb 3, 2009
I always play against HE, mainly with my DE and sometimes with vamps too.
The best thing to do is avoid phoneix guard, take out other units and hold them up with a massive tarpit for the whole game.
Phoneix guard are made to hold enemies, not defeat them.
I find using your army to destroy other units and holding them with 80 or so zombies (and invocationing them) lets you deal with easier targets


Vampire Count
True Blood
Jan 16, 2012
Vampire Ron said:
I'm not sure, but I believe your question was that if one model in your unit has the OTS, how do you go about resolving the rest of your own unit's attacks, seeing as some of the models have to reroll wards, and some don't. If it wasn't, then that is my new question, as this came up in a game recently and I had no real answer.
I believe the simple answer is allocate what ever attacks you want against the ones effected by OTS (Aka the three front ones) which should include the SGK, the GG to his flank, and the three supporting GG behind each of them. For a total of 5 GG and the SGK attacking, theoretically, three individual models. Now when Initiative comes into play, it could be a bit tricky.

Say the SGK has Red Fury and get's 4 hits with 3 wounds, then 3 more attacks with 3 wounds. It's obvious that all of his attacks are going to be effected by the OTS, he is wearing the item, so you could never deny it would work on all wounds caused to the unit, regardless of it it exceeds the 3 actual models in base contact (It is assumed the unit is not static, and others step up to replace fallen allies).

Then the 5 GG go, in a different Initiate order (ASL) after the SGK; However, no matter how many wounds the SGK caused, we can assume that 3 models are in base contact with him (And thus effected by OTS). If your opponent wants to refute this at this point, remind him that it only makes sense then that he should not have gotten attacks from that front rank if no one was willing to step up into the 'OTS zone' and actually make attacks. After that hurdle is bound, roll for attacks from the five GG, let's assume we get 5 hits and 5 wounds.

I can see this going a few ways at this point though:

1) Worst option: You allocated your 5 attacks against '3' models and thus, as they fail their wards, the excess 2 wounds is wasted. This is the least likely option, and anyone advocating it should be kicked in the nuts.

2) Slightly worse option: You allocate your 5 attacks against the '3' models in the OTS zone and you roll 3 saves, one for each in the zone. If they save, re-roll, and see how many are left standing from the first three saves. With the left over two wounds caused on them, re-allocate them to the remaining models from the original '3 in the OTS zone' and roll their save again, with re-rolls. Repeat until either they are all dead or the wounds are all saved. If you have left over wounds after the '3' original ones are dead, then you kindly distribute them to the models outside of the 'OTS zone' and just don't force them to re-roll their save.

3) The most logical answer: You simple make the same assumption you do with the SGK, and just say that those '5' attacks carry the 'special OTS rule' with them, and make sure to roll/keep them clearly divided so you can re-roll saves against them as needed. This just assumes that other elves step into the fray as GG cut them down around their Tricky-SGK, and I would dare say, is the most logical answer. This is what I would tell other people to do to me, were I on the reviving end of a similar case.

Anyways, if my examples/explanations don't make any sense for any reason, let me know and I could try to help, but I am pretty sure I am fairly clear (Always different outside-looking-in though).