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Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,410
Next up is looking at the warscrolls for default battleline units

Skeletal Legionnaires

Move: 4"
Wounds: 1
Save: 6+
Bravery 10

MELEE WEAPONS
  • Ancient Blade: Range 1", Attacks 1, To Hit 4+, To Wound 4+, Rend -, Damage 1
  • Ancient Spear: Range 2", Attacks 1, To Hit 5+, To Wound 4+, Rend -, Damage 1
DESCRIPTION

A unit of Skeletal Legionnaires has 10 or more models. Some units are equipped with Ancient Blades, whilst others go to war with Ancient Spears. Skeletal Legionnaires also carry tall Tomb Shields for protection.

SKELETON CHAMPION

The leader of this unit is a Skeleton Champion. Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of the Skeleton Champion’s Ancient Blade or Ancient Spear.

ICON BEARER

Models in this unit may be Icon Bearers. You can return D6 slain models to this unit in your hero phase if it includes any Icon Bearers.

HORNBLOWER

Models in this unit may be Hornblowers. A unit that includes any Hornblowers can always move up to 6" when it charges, unless its charge roll is higher.

ABILITIES

Serve in Death: Add 1 to this unit’s hit rolls while it is within 18" of any friendly Embalmed Hero.

Skeleton Legion: Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of this unit’s melee weapons if it has 20 or more models. If it has 30 or more models, add 2 instead.

Tomb Shield: A unit carrying Tomb Shields can create a shield fortress instead of running or charging in its turn. If it does so, add 1 to save rolls for the unit until its next movement phase.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, SKELETON, DESERT LEGIONS, SKELETAL LEGIONNAIRES

Issues with the current Warscroll:
  • hoard rules aren't a thing anymore, so skeleton legion must go or be replaced
  • complicated shield rules are mostly on the way out, and bonuses to saves run into issues with the may other save bonuses in 3e
proposed fixes: replace the tomb shield rule with just a flat 5+ save

not sure about skeleton legion. Just dropping it seems like it'll leave this unit petty non-functional. I don't want to just copy the SBGL skeleton mechanic - especially since this unit already has a revive mechanic in the banner.

they definitely need ~something~ though. More attacks if they didn't charge? More save if they didn't charge? More attacks if the target unit already activated in combat?

I'm going to go with a simple bonus for outnumbering, which reflects the theme of the existing Skeleton Legion rule, but I'm absolutely open to suggestions.

Updated warscroll:

Skeletal Legionnaires

Move: 4"
Wounds: 1
Save: 5+
Bravery 10

MELEE WEAPONS
  • Ancient Blade: Range 1", Attacks 1, To Hit 4+, To Wound 4+, Rend -, Damage 1
  • Ancient Spear: Range 2", Attacks 1, To Hit 5+, To Wound 4+, Rend -, Damage 1
DESCRIPTION

A unit of Skeletal Legionnaires has 10 or more models. Some units are equipped with Ancient Blades, whilst others go to war with Ancient Spears.

Skeletal Champion: The leader of this unit is a Skeleton Champion. Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of the Skeleton Champion’s Ancient Blade or Ancient Spear.

Icon Bearer: Up to 1 out of every 10 models in this unit may be Icon Bearers. If this unit is on the battlefield at the start of your Hero Phase and includes at least 1 Icon Bearer, you may roll a D6 and return up to that many previously slain models to the unit.

Hornblower: Up to 1 out of every 10 models in this unit may be Hornblowers. If this unit includes one or more Hornblowers then it may always move up to 6" when it charges, unless the charge roll is higher.

ABILITIES

Serve in Death: Add 1 to this unit’s hit rolls while it is wholly within 18" of any friendly EMBALMED HERO.

Skeleton Legion: Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of this unit’s melee weapons if the target unit includes fewer models than this unit.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, SKELETON, DESERT LEGIONS, SKELETAL LEGIONNAIRES

Again this version of the skeletal legion rule is a shot in the dark, I'm very open to other suggestions.
 
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Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,410
Not too much wrong with this one:

Skeleton Horsemen

MOVE: 12"
WOUNDS: 2
SAVE: 6+
BRAVERY: 10

MELEE WEAPONS
  • Cavalry Spears: Range 2", Attacks 1, To Hit 4+, To Wound 4+, Rend -, Damage 1
  • Thundering Hooves: Range 1", Attacks 2, To Hit 4+, To Wound 5+, Rend -, Damage 1
DESCRIPTION

A unit of Skeleton Horsemen has 5 or more models. They are armed with Bronze-tipped Cavalry Spears and carry Horsemen’s Shields. They are mounted upon Skeletal Steeds that attack with their Thundering Hooves.

MASTER OF HORSE

The leader of this unit is a Master of Horse. Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of the Master of Horse’s Bronze-tipped Cavalry Spear.

ICON BEARER

Models in this unit may be Icon Bearers. You can return D3 slain models to this unit in your hero phase if it includes any Icon Bearers.

HORNBLOWER

Models in this unit may be Hornblowers. A unit that includes any Hornblowers can always move up to 6" when it charges, unless its charge roll is higher.

ABILITIES

Deathly Charge: Add 1 to wound rolls for attacks made with this unit’s Bronze-tipped Cavalry Spears if it charged in the same turn.

Horsemen’s Shield: Add 1 to the save rolls for this unit in the combat phase.

First to Face the Foe: This unit can charge even if it ran in the same turn.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, DESERT LEGIONS, SKELETON, SKELETON HORSEMEN


Issues:
Skeleton Horsemen
  • back in 1e shields all had wacky individual rules, these days they're generally just better base save
  • cavalry spears & lance type weapons typically have 1" reach these days.
Skeleton Horsemen

MOVE: 12"
WOUNDS: 2
SAVE: 5+
BRAVERY: 10

MELEE WEAPONS
  • Cavalry Spears: Range 1", Attacks 2, To Hit 4+, To Wound 4+, Rend -, Damage 1
  • Thundering Hooves: Range 1", Attacks 2, To Hit 4+, To Wound 5+, Rend -, Damage 1
DESCRIPTION

A unit of Skeleton Horsemen has 5 or more models. They are armed with Cavalry Spears, and are mounted on Skeletal Steeds that attack with their Thundering Hooves.

Master of Horse: The leader of this unit is a Master of Horse. Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of the Master of Horse’s Cavalry Spear.

Icon Bearer: Up to 1 out of every 5 models in this unit may be Icon Bearers. If this unit is on the battlefield at the start of your Hero Phase and includes at least 1 Icon Bearer, you may roll a D3 and return up to that many previously slain models to the unit.

Hornblower: Up to 1 out of every 5 models in this unit may be Hornblowers. A unit that includes any Hornblowers can always move up to 6" when it charges, unless its charge roll is higher.

ABILITIES

Deathly Charge: Add 1 to wound rolls for attacks made with this unit’s Cavalry Spears if it charged in the same turn.

First to Face the Foe: This unit can charge even if it ran in the same turn.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, DESERT LEGIONS, SKELETON, SKELETON HORSEMEN


That all works, though it's maybe a bit pillow fisted. Maybe 2 attacks on the spears and extra rend instead of To-Wound when charging? Or focus on their harassment roll by letting them withdraw and charge in the same turn? Maybe both? I don't know. This unit has always felt kind of pointless to me, even before AoS, outside of redirecting charges which isn't really a thing anymore. I'd kind of like to do more with them, but that's a question for phase 2 of this project, for now the warscroll works mechanically in AoS 3e, no need to change it further yet.
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,410
This one also pretty good, for now at least. Original warscroll:

Skeleton Chariots

MOVE: 10"
WOUNDS: 5
SAVE: 5+
BRAVERY: 10

MISSILE WEAPONS
  • Ancient Bows: Range 18", Attacks 2, To Hit 5+, To Wound 4+, Rend -, Damage 1
MELEE WEAPONS
  • Charioteer's Spears: Range 2", Attacks 2, To Hit 4+, To Wound 4+, Rend -, Damage 1
  • Thundering Hooves: Range 1", Attacks 4, To Hit 4+, To Wound 5+, Rend -, Damage 1
DESCRIPTION

A unit of Skeleton Chariots has 3 or more models. Each chariot is crewed by a pair of Skeleton Warriors who are equipped with Charioteer’s Spears and Ancient Bows. The chariots are drawn into battle by a pair of Skeletal Steeds that attack with their Thundering Hooves.

MASTER OF CHARIOTS

The leader of this unit is a Master of Chariots; Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of the Master of Chariot’s Charioteer’s Spear.

ICON BEARER

Models in this unit may be Icon Bearers. You can return 1 slain model to this unit in your hero phase if it includes any Icon Bearers.

HORNBLOWER

Models in this unit may be Hornblowers. A unit that includes any Hornblowers can always move up to 6" when it charges, unless its charge roll is higher. In addition, a unit that includes any Hornblowers can shoot even if it ran in the same turn.

ABILITIES

Crush them Beneath Our Wheels: If this unit makes a charge move, then in the subsequent combat phase you may double the number of attacks it makes with its melee weapons.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, DESERT LEGIONS, SKELETON, SKELETON CHARIOTS

i don't really see any problems here other than that that the icon bearer revival might be a excessive on a 5 wound unit, especially when run with Nagash or if we add additional healing options elsewhere. Maybe instead it should be 'roll a D6 and either heal that many wounds from an injured chariot OR restore one slain chariot if the dice result was a 5+?

That sounds more reasonable to me, especially as 3e has been toning down undead healing options in general, so I'm inclined to try that out for now and see how it goes - though I'm absolutely open to feedback to the contrary.

Skeleton Chariots

MOVE: 10"
WOUNDS: 5
SAVE: 5+
BRAVERY: 10

MISSILE WEAPONS
  • Ancient Bows: Range 18", Attacks 2, To Hit 5+, To Wound 4+, Rend -, Damage 1
MELEE WEAPONS
  • Charioteer's Spears: Range 2", Attacks 2, To Hit 4+, To Wound 4+, Rend -, Damage 1
  • Thundering Hooves: Range 1", Attacks 4, To Hit 4+, To Wound 5+, Rend -, Damage 1
DESCRIPTION

A unit of Skeleton Chariots has 3 models. Each chariot is crewed by a pair of Skeleton Warriors who are equipped with Charioteer’s Spears and Ancient Bows. The skeleton warriors are mounted on chariots that attack with their skeletal steeds' Thundering Hooves.

Master of Chariots: The leader of this unit is a Master of Chariots; Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of the Master of Chariot’s Charioteer’s Spear.

Icon Bearer: Up to 1 out of every 3 models in this unit may be Icon Bearers. If this unit is on the battlefield at the start of your Hero Phase and includes any Icon Bearers, you may roll a dice. On a 1-4 you may immediately heal up to that many wounds that have been allocated to an injured model in this unit. On a 5+ you may either heal all wounds currently allocated to injured models in this unit or you may return 1 slain model to the unit.

Hornblower: Up to 1 out of every 3 models in this unit may be Hornblowers. A unit that includes any Hornblowers can always move up to 6" when it charges, unless its charge roll is higher. In addition, a unit that includes any Hornblowers can shoot even if it ran in the same turn.

ABILITIES

Crush them Beneath Our Wheels: If this unit makes a charge move, then in the subsequent combat phase you may double the number of attacks it makes with its melee weapons.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, DESERT LEGIONS, SKELETON, SKELETON CHARIOTS

That's Default Battleline down. The current rules also have archers as battleline-if, but we'll revisit that again later, along with considering which other units should get that treatment (tomb guard, maybe War Sphinxes, maybe Ushabti, etc).

Arguably chariots might also make more sense as battleline-if, but no, they're too core to the Tomb Kings identity to not be default battleline.
 
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Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,410
I'm not even going to bother posting the Legends warscroll for the screaming skull catapult. It's a mess - separate unit & crew, tiering damage on surviving crew count, it's just going to need a ground up re-work. Here's my initial take:

Screaming Skull Catapult

Move: 2"
Wounds: 8
Save: 5+
Bravery: 10

MISSILE WEAPONS
  • Screaming Skulls: Range: 6-36", Attacks 1, To Hit 3+, To Wound 2+, Rend -1, Damage D6
MELEE WEAPONS
  • Crew's Tools: Range 1", Attacks 3, To Hit 5+, To Wound 5+, Rend -, Damage 1
DESCRIPTION

A Screaming Skull Catapult is armed with Screaming Skulls. It has a crew of 3 Skeleton Engineers, who are armed with Crew's Tools. The crew must remain within 1" of the Screaming Skull Catapult. For rules purposes, the Screaming Skull Catapult and its crew are treated as a single model.

ABILITIES

Barrage of Death: The target of a shooting attack made with a Screaming Skull Catapult does not have to be visible to the attacking model. In addition, if the target unit has 10 or more models add 1 to the to hit roll and increase the Damage characteristic of the Screaming Skulls to 2D6

Screaming Ammunition: Add 2 to battleshock rolls for units targeted by any Screaming Skulls during that turn.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, DESERT LEGIONS, SKELETON, WAR MACHINE, SCREAMING SKULL CATAPULT

I basically copied this from the Skaven Plague Claw - the existing unit with the most similar concept, only tougher (8 Wounds, same as a warp lightning cannon), slower (Move 2 instead of 3). I also made it weaker (rend -1 instead of -2), because skaven are supposed to have strong war machines, and undead generally aren't. Plus rend is a weakness of the current tomb kings rules, and I don't want the catapult to be the most notable exception. That's on top of the higher points cost (160 instead of 135) compared to the plague claw, though, so it /might/ need to be tuned up a little? or maybe not.

I'm tempted to go with the banshee's 'increase cost of command abilities on target unit' style effect instead of the battleshock penalty, to have something a bit more cool and unique. But that's further from the original warscroll so something to think about later.

Thoughts on the current version? This is a from-scratch warscroll so is in greater need of feedback.

EDIT: streamlining, put +1 to hit back where it was in the plagueclaw.
 
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Oppenheimer

Vargheist
May 26, 2013
660
Again it would be awkward but you could say that they can cast Soulblight Gravelords lore spells even though they are not currently in that alliegance. It's unprecidented as you never have to have someone else's lore book. But I think it'd be neat, especially given how Arkhan is basically a vampire count masquerading as a tomb king at the best of times.
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,410
Again it would be awkward but you could say that they can cast Soulblight Gravelords lore spells even though they are not currently in that alliegance. It's unprecidented as you never have to have someone else's lore book. But I think it'd be neat, especially given how Arkhan is basically a vampire count masquerading as a tomb king at the best of times.

I'm not worried about it for now. Faction lores - prayers or spells, are a concern for much later down the line, and we can worry about how arkhan and nagash work with that stuff then. For now they can still re-cast arcane bolt over and over.

The fourth post in the thread has some placeholder allegiance abilities including how to field Nagash and Arkhan that should work fine for the moment.
 
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Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,410
Alright, gonna take another crack at khalida. the legends warscroll was posted earlier in the thread.

Thoughts:
  • she's an embalmed hero, so she gets 'my will be done'
  • supernatural speed is a concept represented by the 'strikes first' rules
  • I want her to be dangerous, in a way that a hero like neferata would want to avoid her like the plague, but not in the sense of being a unit-eating melee beatstick
  • as the chosen of asaph she should be a priest. blessing of asaph should be a prayer, and should stack with 'my will be done'
so here's a try:


High Queen Khalida

Move: 4"
Wounds: 5
Save: 5+
Bravery: 10

MISSILE WEAPONS
  • Venom Staff: Range 18", Attacks 1, To Hit 2+, - See Below -
MELEE WEAPONS
  • Venom Staff: Range 2", Attacks 1, To Hit 2+, - See Below -
DESCRIPTION

High Queen Khalida is a single model. She is armed with a Venom Staff, a divine stave that writhes with a life of its own, spitting bolts paralyzing venom.

ABILITIES

The Tomb Queen's Curse: If this model is slain, the unit that inflicted the final wound upon it suffers D3 mortal wounds after all of its attacks have been made.

Supernatural Speed: High Queen Khalida has a 5+ ward against wounds and mortal wounds. Additionally she Strikes-First in combat.

Venom Staff: If an attack made with this unit's Venom Staff hits, the target unit immediately suffers D3 mortal wounds and that attack sequence ends. Additionally, that unit Strikes-Last in combat until the end of the current Player Turn.

Blessing of Asaph: Blessing of Asaph is a prayer with an answer value of 3+. If answered, choose a friendly DESERT LEGIONS unit wholly within 18" of this model. Until your next Hero Phase, whenever you roll an unmodified 6 on the roll to hit for an attack made with the chosen unit's Ancient Bows, that hit scores a wound automatically without having to roll to wound. Roll to save as normal.

COMMAND ABILITY

My Will Be Done: An EMBALMED HERO may issue this command ability at the start of any shooting or combat phase. It must be received by a friendly DESERT LEGIONS unit. Add +1 Attack to all of that unit's weapons until the end of the current phase.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, EMBALMED, HERO, PRIEST, HIGH QUEEN KHALIDA

obviously her points will need to come up, but what are your thoughts? Have I overtuned her? Overcomplicated her?
 
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Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,410
Wasn't happy with the previous version of the skeleton legionnaires. Here's take two. Simpler. More defensive. Still not sure.

Skeleton Legionnaires

Move: 4"
Wounds: 1
Save: 5+
Bravery 10

MELEE WEAPONS
  • Ancient Blade or Spear: Range 1", Attacks 1, To Hit 4+, To Wound 4+, Rend -, Damage 1
DESCRIPTION

A unit of Skeleton Legionnaires has 10 or more models. Some units are equipped with Ancient Blades, whilst others go to war with Ancient Spears.

Skeleton Champion: The leader of this unit is a Skeleton Champion. Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of the Skeleton Champion’s Ancient Blade or Spear.

Icon Bearer: Up to 1 out of every 10 models in this unit may be Icon Bearers. If this unit is on the battlefield at the start of your Hero Phase and includes at least 1 Icon Bearer, you may roll a D6 and return up to that many previously slain models to the unit.

Hornblower: Up to 1 out of every 10 models in this unit may be Hornblowers. If this unit includes one or more Hornblowers then it may always move up to 6" when it charges, unless the charge roll is higher.

ABILITIES

Lock Shields: Add +1 to saves for this unit in the combat phase if it did not charge in the preceding charge phase.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, SKELETON, DESERT LEGIONS, SKELETON LEGIONNAIRES
 
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Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,410
a couple days later, and I'm still not happy with the Skeleton Legionnaires, but rather than continuing to grind my gears over them, I'm just going to move on for now.

Archers next, here's the legends warscroll:

Skeleton Archers

MOVE: 4"
WOUNDS: 1
SAVE: 6+
BRAVERY: 10

MISSILE WEAPONS
  • Ancient Bow: Range 20", Attacks 1, To Hit 5+, To Wound 4+, Rend -, Damage 1
MELEE WEAPONS
  • Arrow: Range 1", Attacks 1, To Hit 5+, To Wound 5+, Rend -, Damage 1
DESCRIPTION

A unit of Skeleton Archers has 10 or more models. They are armed with Ancient Bows and can stab foes in close combat using an Arrow as an improvised dagger.

MASTER OF ARROWS

The leader of this unit is a Master of Arrows. Add 1 to hit rolls for a Master of Arrows’ attacks in the shooting phase.

ICON BEARER

Models in this unit may be Icon Bearers. You can return D6 slain models to this unit in your hero phase if it includes any Icon Bearers.

HORNBLOWER

Models in this unit may be Hornblowers. A unit that includes any Hornblowers can always move up to 6" when it charges, unless its charge roll is higher. In addition, a unit that includes any Hornblowers can shoot even if they ran in the same turn.

ABILITIES

Hail of Ancient Arrows: Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of this unit’s Ancient Bows while it has 20 or more models and there are no enemy models within 3" of it.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, DESERT LEGIONS, SKELETON, SKELETON ARCHERS


This is fine. Nothing much to say here. Big unit bonuses are gone in 3e, but we can just pull that part of the hail of ancient arrows out.

This is easier than the legionnaires because doing damage, however little, is actually the archers' job, so a simple +1 attack ability does them fine.

revised warscroll:

Skeleton Archers

MOVE: 4"
WOUNDS: 1
SAVE: 6+
BRAVERY: 10

MISSILE WEAPONS
  • Ancient Bow: Range 20", Attacks 1, To Hit 5+, To Wound 4+, Rend -, Damage 1
MELEE WEAPONS
  • Arrow: Range 1", Attacks 1, To Hit 5+, To Wound 5+, Rend -, Damage 1
DESCRIPTION

A unit of Skeleton Archers has 10 or more models. They are armed with Ancient Bows and can stab foes in close combat using an Arrow as an improvised dagger.

Master of Arrows: The leader of this unit is a Master of Arrows. Add 1 to to the Attacks characteristic of the Master of Arrows' Ancient Bow.

Icon Bearer: Up to 1 out of every 10 models in this unit may be Icon Bearers. If this unit is on the battlefield at the start of your Hero Phase and includes at least 1 Icon Bearer, you may roll a D6 and return up to that many previously slain models to the unit.

Hornblower: Up to 1 out of every 10 models in this unit may be Hornblowers. A unit that includes any Hornblowers can always move up to 6" when it charges, unless its charge roll is higher. In addition, a unit that includes any Hornblowers can shoot even if they withdrew in the same Player Turn.

ABILITIES

Hail of Ancient Arrows: Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of this unit’s Ancient Bows while there are no enemy models within 3" of it.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, DESERT LEGIONS, SKELETON, SKELETON ARCHERS
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,410
Skeleton Horse Archers

MOVE: 12"
WOUNDS: 2
SAVE: 6+
BRAVERY: 10

MISSILE WEAPONS
  • Ancient Bow: 20", Attacks 2, To Hit 5+, To Wound 4+, Rend -, Damage 1
MELEE WEAPONS
  • Arrow: Range 1", Attacks 1, To Hit 5+, To Wound 5+, Rend -, Damage 1
  • Thundering Hooves: 1", Attacks 2, To Hit 4+, To Wound 5+, Rend -, Damage 1
DESCRIPTION

A unit of Skeleton Horse Archers has 5 or more models. They are armed with Ancient Bows and can stab foes in close combat using Arrows as improvised daggers. They are mounted upon Skeletal Steeds that attack with their Thundering Hooves.

MASTER OF SCOUTS

The leader of this unit is a Master of Scouts. Add 1 to hit rolls for a Master of Scouts’ attacks in the shooting phase.

ICON BEARER

Models in this unit may be Icon Bearers. You can return D3 slain models to this unit in your hero phase if it includes any Icon Bearers.

HORNBLOWER

Models in this unit may be Hornblowers. A unit that includes any Hornblowers can always move up to 6" when it charges, unless its charge roll is higher. In addition, a unit that includes any Hornblowers can shoot even if it ran in the same turn.

ABILITIES

Like the Angry Desert Wind: This unit can shoot instead of moving in the movement phase. If it does so, it can move in the shooting phase of the same turn, but cannot shoot. If it moves in the shooting phase, it can retreat.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, DESERT LEGIONS, SKELETON, SKELETON HORSE ARCHERS

I always liked this unit. Not much to change up here.

Revised Warscroll:

Skeleton Horse Archers

MOVE: 12"
WOUNDS: 2
SAVE: 6+
BRAVERY: 10

MISSILE WEAPONS
  • Ancient Bow: 20", Attacks 2, To Hit 5+, To Wound 4+, Rend -, Damage 1
MELEE WEAPONS
  • Arrow: Range 1", Attacks 1, To Hit 5+, To Wound 5+, Rend -, Damage 1
  • Thundering Hooves: 1", Attacks 2, To Hit 4+, To Wound 5+, Rend -, Damage 1
DESCRIPTION

A unit of Skeleton Horse Archers has 5 or more models. They are armed with Ancient Bows and can stab foes in close combat using Arrows as improvised daggers. They are mounted upon Skeletal Steeds that attack with their Thundering Hooves.

Master of Scouts: The leader of this unit is a Master of Scouts. Add 1 to the Attacks Characteristic for the Master of Scouts' Ancient Bow.

Icon Bearer: Up to 1 out of every 10 models in this unit may be Icon Bearers. If this unit is on the battlefield at the start of your Hero Phase and includes at least 1 Icon Bearer, you may roll a D3 and return up to that many previously slain models to the unit.

Hornblower: Up to 1 out of every 10 models in this unit may be Hornblowers. A unit that includes any Hornblowers can always move up to 6" when it charges, unless its charge roll is higher. In addition, a unit that includes any Hornblowers can shoot even if they withdrew in the same Player Turn.

ABILITIES

Like the Angry Desert Wind: This unit can shoot instead of moving in your Movement Phase. If it does so, it can make a Normal Move or Withdraw shooting phase of the same turn, but may not shoot in that phase.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, DESERT LEGIONS, SKELETON, SKELETON HORSE ARCHERS

The one problem with 'Like the Angry Desert Wind' is that you can't use shooting phase command abilities if you shoot in the movement phase, or vice versa. Still, though, it's a neat enough ability that I'm inclined to leave it as is.
 
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Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,410
Tomb Guard

MOVE: 4"
WOUNDS: 1
SAVE: 5+
BRAVERY: 10

MELEE WEAPONS
  • Tomb Blade: Range 1", Attacks 2, To Hit: 3+, To Wound 4+, Rend -1, Damage 1
  • Bronze Halberd: Range 1", Attacks 2, To Hit: 4+, To Wound 3+, Rend -1, Damage 1
DESCRIPTION

A unit of Tomb Guard has 5 or more models. Some units of Tomb Guard are equipped with Tomb Blades, whilst other units carry Bronze Halberds. In either case, Tomb Guard always carry Tomb Shields.

TOMB CAPTAIN

The leader of this unit is a Tomb Captain. Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of the Tomb Captain’s Tomb Blade or Bronze Halberd.

ICON BEARER

Models in this unit may be Icon Bearers. You can return D3 slain models to this unit in your hero phase if it includes any Icon Bearers.

HORNBLOWER

Models in this unit may be Hornblowers. A unit that includes any Hornblowers can always move up to 6" when it charges, unless its charge roll is higher.

ABILITIES

Cursed Weapons: If the wound roll for an attack made by a model from this unit is 6+, add 1 to the Damage characteristic of their Tomb Blade or Bronze Halberd for that attack.

Tomb Shield: This unit can create a shield fortress instead of running or charging in its turn. If it does so, add 1 to save rolls for the unit until its next movement phase.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, DESERT LEGIONS, SKELETON, TOMB GUARD


Problems With the Tomb Guard
  • this kind of unit generally has minimum 10 models now
  • tomb guard are not so elite that their banner needs to revive fewer models than skeletons do
  • cursed weapons - 'on a six' abilities trigger on unmodified rolls only now
  • back in 1e shields all had obnoxious individual rules, these days they're generally just better base save
  • the tomb blades and halberds are barely distinguished, only different in the sence that the tomb blades are ever so slightly objectively better due to hitting more, thus rolling more wounds, thus triggering cursed weapons more.
Honestly, I'm just going to copy grave guard for a lot of this instead.

Tomb Guard

MOVE: 4"
WOUNDS: 1
SAVE: 4+
BRAVERY: 10

MELEE WEAPONS
  • Tomb Blade or Halberd: Range 1", Attacks 2, To Hit: 3+, To Wound 4+, Rend -1, Damage 1
DESCRIPTION

A unit of Tomb Guard has 10 or more models. They are armed with Tomb Blades or Halberds

Tomb Captain: The leader of this unit is a Tomb Captain. Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of the Tomb Captain’s Tomb Blade or Halberd.

Icon Bearer: Up to 1 out of every 10 models in this unit may be Icon Bearers. If this unit is on the battlefield at the start of your Hero Phase and includes at least 1 Icon Bearer, you may roll a D6 and return up to that many previously slain models to the unit.

Hornblower: Up to 1 out of every 10 models in this unit may be Hornblowers. A unit that includes any Hornblowers can always move up to 6" when it charges, unless its charge roll is higher.

ABILITIES

Cursed Weapons: If the unmodified wound roll for an attack made with a melee weapon by this unit is 6, the target suffers 1 mortal wound in addition to any normal damage.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, DESERT LEGIONS, SKELETON, TOMB GUARD


stats similar to sword & board grave guard - worse to wound, better banner effect. shields are base save instead of non-stacking +1 save, but imo the grave guard should have been like that too, so whatever.
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,410
SHOOT, I COMPLETELY FORGOT THAT NECROTECTS EXIST

Man, I do not know what to do with this guy. I've mostly been stripping out abilities in warscrolls that reference the presence of particular other warscrolls in the name of streamlining and those sorts of opinions being less popular now...

but abilities on other warscrolls are like 80% of what this warscroll does.

And the ability on the warscroll is an awkward sort of thing that probably needs to be reworked too.


IMO necrotect is going to need to be completely re-worked.
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,410
Sidebar Discussion:

Should the War Statues have a single unifying mechanic?

Right know there are two extremely different mechanics representing their implacable stone forms, with practically opposite effects.

Ushabti have "War Statuary" - giving them +2 to save rolls for damage 1 weapons, which is obviously a poor fit for 3e due to the cap on saves. Setting that aside for now, the effect of this rule is that ushabti are very resiliant against the weakest weapons in the game, but can be easily torn down by more powerful weapons, which maybe works thematically but I'm not sure if that's the in-game effect we want to see out of them.

Sphinxes have "Sacred War Statue", which cuts the damage characteristic of attacks directed at the statue in half (rounded up). despite the fact that this effect is representing the same concept as 'war statuary - ie the incredible toughness of these units' stone bodies - in practice they have literally opposite effects, as sacred war statue makes sphinxes very resistant to strong, multi-damage attacks but the rule does nothing at all to protect them from being torn down by hordes of little guys.

Now, my first instinct, since the uchabti rule doesn't really fit with 3e and the sphinx rule does, was to just give all the statues the sphinx rule. Except, does the sphinx rule really do what we want it to do?

There is an alternative option as well, since there is a more modern example of a rule representing the resilience of creatures animated from stone, namely the Petrifex Elite '-1 rend' rule, and we could give all the statues that instead, along with base saves of at least 4+. I'm inclined towards that, but open to alternative feedback.
 
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Oppenheimer

Vargheist
May 26, 2013
660
GW does tend to avoid multiple pluses to a thing but isn't beyond doing multiple small bonuses, maybe reduce damage by 1 to a minimum of 1 and also reduce rend by -1? Rather than having it be half or +2 to save?
 
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Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,410
Necroknights are less troublesome. The current scroll:

Necropolis Knights

MOVE: 8"
WOUNDS: 5
SAVE: 5+
BRAVERY: 10

MELEE WEAPONS
  • Knight's Heavy Spear: Range 2", Attacks 2, To Hit 3+, To Wound 3+, Rend -1, Damage 1
  • Poisoned Fangs: Range 2", Attacks 3, To Hit: 4+, To Wound 3+, Rend -1, Damage D3
DESCRIPTION

A unit of Necropolis Knights has 3 or more models. The Knights are armed with Heavy Spears that can carve through mortal flesh, and some carry large Necropolis Shields to protect them in combat. The Knights ride large Necroserpents that snap at the foe with Poisoned Fangs.

NECROPOLIS CAPTAIN

The leader of this unit is a Necropolis Captain. Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of the Necropolis Captain’s Knight’s Heavy Spear.

ICON BEARER

Models in this unit may be Icon Bearers. You can return 1 slain model to this unit in your hero phase if it includes any Icon Bearers.

HORNBLOWER

Models in this unit may be Hornblowers. A unit that includes any Hornblowers can always move up to 6" when it charges, unless its charge roll is higher.

ABILITIES

Necrovenom: Each time you make a wound roll of 6+ for a Necroserpent’s Poisoned Fangs, that attack inflicts 1 mortal wound in addition to its normal damage.

Necropolis Shield: Add 1 to the save rolls for a unit of Necropolis Knights with Necropolis shields in the combat phase.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, REANIMANT, SKELETON, DESERT LEGIONS, NECROPOLIS KNIGHTS

so, issues:
  • 'on a 6' effects should be unmodified
  • as with the chariots, 5 wounds of regeneration every round feels excessive, and I'm inclined to implement the same nerf
  • as with the horsemen, cav lance/spear attacks are generally given 1" reach these days, and I'm inclined to reduce the range of the fangs too. The attacks literally put their faces into contact with the enemy, you can't do that without coming into range of their weapons.
  • shields can just be better saves, they don't need extra rules
revised warscroll:

Necropolis Knights

MOVE: 8"
WOUNDS: 5
SAVE: 4+
BRAVERY: 10

MELEE WEAPONS
  • Knight's Heavy Spear: Range 1", Attacks 2, To Hit 3+, To Wound 3+, Rend -1, Damage 1
  • Poisoned Strike: Range 1", Attacks 3, To Hit: 4+, To Wound 3+, Rend -1, Damage D3
DESCRIPTION

A unit of Necropolis Knights has 3 or more models. The Knights are armed with Heavy Spears that can carve through mortal flesh. They ride large Reanimant Warbeasts, typically sculpted in the likeness of deadly Necroserpents, which deliver deadly necrovenom with their Poisoned Strikes.

Necropolis Captain: The leader of this unit is a Necropolis Captain. Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of the Necropolis Captain’s Knight’s Heavy Spear.

Icon Bearer: Up to 1 out of every 3 models in this unit may be Icon Bearers. If this unit is on the battlefield at the start of your Hero Phase and includes any Icon Bearers, you may roll a dice. On a 1-4 you may immediately heal up to that many wounds that have been allocated to a model in this unit. On a 5+ you may either heal all wounds currently allocated to models in this unit or you may return 1 slain model to the unit.

Hornblower: Up to 1 out of every 3 models in this unit may be Hornblowers. A unit that includes any Hornblowers can always move up to 6" when it charges, unless its charge roll is higher.

ABILITIES

Necrovenom: Each time the wound roll of an attack made with this unit's Poisoned Strikes is an unmodified 6, that attack inflicts 1 mortal wound in addition to its normal damage.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, REANIMANT, SKELETON, DESERT LEGIONS, NECROPOLIS KNIGHTS

In a completely self-serving modification, I've change the description to imply that the steeds of necropolis knights are only *usually* in the form of they typical necroserpents, leaving open the possiblity for my own mini-sphinx conversions to be canon.

also, the necroserpents are reanimants - animated stone figures. Should they get the same stone body resilience trait that we give ushbti and sphinxes, whatever that turns out to be?
 
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Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,410
GW does tend to avoid multiple pluses to a thing but isn't beyond doing multiple small bonuses, maybe reduce damage by 1 to a minimum of 1 and also reduce rend by -1? Rather than having it be half or +2 to save?

I like '-1 damage' instead of half damage for simplicity. Personally, I'd be inclined towards /either/ -1 damage /or/ reduce rend by 1, largely for simplicity & streamlining, especially since this is a rule potentially showing up on multiple warscrolls in addition to other rules.
 
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Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,410
Next is a fairly simple warscroll with some interesting possibilities:

Tomb Scorpions

MOVE: 6"
WOUNDS: 5
SAVE: 4+
BRAVERY: 10

MELEE WEAPONS:
  • Tail Stinger: Range 3", Attacks 1, To Hit 3+, To Wound 3+, Rend -1, Damage 3
  • Powerful Pincers: Range 2", Attacks 2, To Hit 4+, To Wound 3+, Rend -2, Damage D3
DESCRIPTION

A unit of Tomb Scorpions can have any number of models. Tomb Scorpions can snap an opponent in two with their Powerful Pincers, or cause them to die in agony with the virulent poison in their Tail Stingers.

ABILITIES

Entombed Beneath the Sands: Instead of setting up a unit of Tomb Scorpions on the battlefield, you can place them to one side and say that they are set up beneath the ground. In any of your movement phases, you can set the unit up on the battlefield more than 9" from any enemy models. This is the unit’s move for that movement phase.

Liche Priest’s Sarcophagi: Roll a dice each time a model in this unit suffers a wound or a mortal wound caused by a spell. Add 1 to the roll if the model is within 18" of a friendly Necrotect. On a 5+ that wound or mortal wound is negated and has no effect.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, REANIMANT, TOMB SCORPIONS

So, not much here is wrong exactly, other than the sarcophagi being a reallly hasslesome way of saying the model has a 5+ ward against wounds and mortal wounds caused by spell, or 4+ within range of a necrotect.

Now, I'm trying to remove those references to necrotects in order to put the necrotect rules on the necrotect's own scroll. Pluse ward saves don't stack, so I'm inclined to make the liche priest sarcophagus rule something else.

There are several options - a spell negation rule is one.

Alternatively, since the model is a liche priest, we could give it the same 'mortuary priesthood' rule I have to other liche priests to let them still unbind one enemy spell per turn despite not being wizards anymore. I kind of like that

Or it could just have an aura that imposes a penalty on enemy wizards' casting rolls. I maybe like that best because of the synergy with regular liche priests trying to unbind spells with the above mentioned rule.

another possiblity to consider is giving a tomb scorpion some kind of poison rule to go with its stinger. Maybe something specific to enemy wizards or wizards-and-priests, cementing their roll as assassins hunting enemy magic heroes.

I'm also slightly inclined to up its offense since units of a single model generally don't get reinforcements these days, so they're going to be operating on their own. Like, bulk them up all round, maybe throw in an extra wound or two?

And finally, they are reanimants, should they get the same stone body rule as ushabti and/or sphinxes?

Something to consider for down the road. For the moment, per this projects stated plan of attack, I'm keeping things close to the current warscroll for now.


Tomb Scorpion

MOVE: 6"
WOUNDS: 6
SAVE: 4+
BRAVERY: 10

MELEE WEAPONS:
  • Tail Stinger: Range 3", Attacks 1, To Hit 3+, To Wound 3+, rend -1, Damage 3
  • Powerful Pincers: Range 2", Attacks 4, To Hit 4+, To Wound 3+, Rend -2, Damage D3
DESCRIPTION

A Tomb Scorpion is a single model. Tomb Scorpions can snap an opponent in two with their Powerful Pincers, or cause them to die in agony with the virulent poison in their Tail Stingers.

ABILITIES

Desert Ambush: Instead of setting up this unit normally, you can place it to one side and say that it is set up beneath the sands. At the end of any of your movement phases, you can set up this unit anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" from any enemy models. If this unit has not been set up by the start of the fourth battle round, it is treated as slain.

Liche Priest’s Sarcophagi: enemy WIZARDS wholly within 12" of one or more models with this rule suffer a -1 penalty on casting rolls.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, MORTUARY CULT, REANIMANT, TOMB SCORPION

this version goes with the 'casting penalty' version of the sacophagi, plus a couple name changes and added the mortuary cult keyword since it's got a liche priest in it.

Again, I think there's a lot of potential for making this thing more interesting down the road, but for the moment I'm trying to stick to current scrolls where reasonable.
 
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Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,410
Having looked at Tomb Scorpions, may as well tackle the other creepy unit of sand-ambushing reanimants.

Sepulchral Stalkers

MOVE: 8"
WOUNDS: 5
SAVE: 5+
BRAVERY: 10

MISSILE WEAPONS
  • Transmogrifying Gaze: Range 10", - See Below -
MELEE WEAPONS
  • Ornate Stave: Range 2", Attacks 2, To Hit 4+, To Wound 3+, Rend -1, Damage 2
DESCRIPTION

A unit of Sepulchral Stalkers has 3 or more models. The Stalkers are armed with Ornate Staves with which they impale their victims, and anyone foolish enough to meet their Transmogrifying Gaze is turned to sand!

ABILITIES

Transmogrifying Gaze: When this unit makes a Transmogrifying Gaze attack, choose an enemy unit within 10". Roll a dice for each model in the attacking unit; for each roll of 1, a Sepulchral Stalker has caught a glimpse of its own reflection and the attacking unit suffers 1 mortal wound. On a 2 or 3 the target unit keeps its eyes shut and nothing happens. On a 4 or 5 the target unit suffers 1 mortal wound as it briefly meets the Stalker’s gaze, but on a 6 it suffers D3 mortal wounds as it foolishly stares into the Stalker’s eyes and crumbles to sand.

Underground Stalkers: Instead of setting up a unit of Sepulchral Stalkers on the battlefield, you can place them to one side and say that they are set up beneath the ground. In any of your movement phases, you can set the unit up on the battlefield more than 9" from any enemy models. This is the unit’s move for that movement phase. The Sepulchral Stalkers can burrow back underground in any of your future movement phases. If they do, remove the unit from the battlefield – it can return in a later turn as described above.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, REANIMANT, SEPULCHRAL STALKERS

Well that transmogrifying gaze sure is a wall of text, but it's not technically unworkable and I don't feel a particular need to rewrite it. For their sandy ambush, do they really need to be able to re-bury? seems hasslesome, I'm inclined to drop that bit, and just copy the ambush rule from the scorpion above.

Revised Warscroll

Sepulchral Stalkers

MOVE: 8"
WOUNDS: 5
SAVE: 5+
BRAVERY: 10

MISSILE WEAPONS
  • Transmogrifying Gaze: Range 10", - See Below -
MELEE WEAPONS
  • Ornate Stave: Range 2", Attacks 2, To Hit 4+, To Wound 3+, Rend -1, Damage 2
DESCRIPTION

A unit of Sepulchral Stalkers has 3 or more models. The Stalkers are armed with Ornate Staves with which they impale their victims, and anyone foolish enough to meet their Transmogrifying Gaze is turned to sand!

ABILITIES

Transmogrifying Gaze: When this unit makes a Transmogrifying Gaze attack, choose an enemy unit within 10". Roll a dice for each model in the attacking unit; for each roll of 1, a Sepulchral Stalker has caught a glimpse of its own reflection and the attacking unit suffers 1 mortal wound. On a 2 or 3 the target unit keeps its eyes shut and nothing happens. On a 4 or 5 the target unit suffers 1 mortal wound as it briefly meets the Stalker’s gaze, but on a 6 it suffers D3 mortal wounds as it foolishly stares into the Stalker’s eyes and crumbles to sand.

Desert Ambush: Instead of setting up this unit normally, you can place it to one side and say that it is set up beneath the sands. At the end of any of your movement phases, you can set up this unit anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" from any enemy models. If this unit has not been set up by the start of the fourth battle round, it is treated as slain.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, REANIMANT, SEPULCHRAL STALKERS

good enough for now, but we may want to consider going back to simplify the gaze in the future.
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,410
While we're looking at awkward ambushing units...

Carrion

MOVE: 12"
WOUNDS: 3
SAVE: 6+
BRAVERY: 10

MELEE WEAPONS
  • Rotting Talons and Sharp Beaks: Range 1", Attacks 4, To Hit 4+, To Wound 3+, Rend -, Damage 1
DESCRIPTION

A unit of Carrion can have any number of models. They swoop down upon their prey from on high, eviscerating them with their Rotting Talons and Sharp Beaks.

FLY

Carrion can fly.

ABILITIES

Circling High Above: When first set up, units of Carrion are assumed to be flying high above the battlefield. As long as they remain high in the sky, they cannot be charged, attacked, targeted by spells or affected by abilities used by either side, and they also cannot make any attacks themselves as they soar far above their foes. Other units ignore the Carrion as they move (they move underneath them). Scavenger’s Dive: The first time this unit declares a charge, you can roll 3 dice rather than 2 to see how far it charges (when doing so, you can declare a charge if it is within 18" of the enemy, rather than 12"). As they charge, the Carrion are assumed to drop down to low level, and the Circling High Above ability no longer applies to the unit for the rest of the battle

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, CARRION


The circling high above is too hasslesome and should be replaced with typical deep striking.

HOWEVER: between scorpions, stalkers, carrion, tomb swarms, and Apophas, imo there are just too many of these deep striking harassment units in this army and they start to feel redundant, and that's before we consider the possibility of faction traits or artefacts allowing you to deep strike desert legions units, which have often been a thing for old tomb kings rules and I'm inclined to make a thing in this battletome updage - a stencil version of such a rule are already in the placeholder faction traits above.

Again, it's starting to feel a bit redundant, and I'm inclined to completely rethink some of these units. In particular I think some of them might make sense as invocations - the prayer version of endless spells. spirit creatures of the desert that respond to the calls of tomb kings priests.

In particular, I think that carrion & tomb swarms would be better served by being invocations than units. Honestly, I'm half wondering if that that would be a better way to implement Apophas as well, which would give us that magic number 3.

As for what exactly these invocations would do... I don't know. That's something to work out later. But what do you think of the general idea?

In the mean time, though, trying to keep things simple / not change too much, so...

Carrion

MOVE: 12"
WOUNDS: 3
SAVE: 6+
BRAVERY: 10

MELEE WEAPONS
  • Rotting Talons and Sharp Beaks: Range 1", Attacks 4, To Hit 4+, To Wound 3+, Rend -, Damage 1
DESCRIPTION

A unit of Carrion has 3 models. They swoop down upon their prey from on high, eviscerating them with their Rotting Talons and Sharp Beaks.

FLY: Carrion can fly.

ABILITIES

Circling High Above: Instead of setting up this unit normally, you can place it to one side and say that it is circling high above. At the end of any of your movement phases, you can set up this unit anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" from any enemy models. If this unit has not been set up by the start of the fourth battle round, it is treated as slain.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, CARRION
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,410
Last of these Deep Striking harassment units.

Tomb Swarm

Move: 6"
Wounds 5
Save -
Bravery 10

MELEE WEAPONS
  • Bites and Stingers: Range 1", Attacks 5, To Hit 5+, To Wound 5+, Rend -, Damage 1
DESCRIPTION

A unit of tomb swarms contains 2 models. The creatures that make up the swarm attack with Bites and Stingers.

ABILITIES

Underground Scuttlers: Instead of setting up a Tomb Swarm on the battlefield, you can place them to one side and say that they are set up beneath the ground. In any of your movement phases, you can set the unit up on the battlefield more than 9" from any enemy models. This is the unit’s move for that movement phase. The unit can burrow back underground in any of your future movement phases. If it does, remove the unit from the battlefield – it can return in a later turn as described above.

Hidden Abodes: If a Tomb Swarm burrows back underground as described above, it is joined by more of its scuttling brethren who had remained hidden. You may restore D3 slain models to the unit.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, TOMB SWARM

In terms of fixing up the current scroll:

1) reburial is a hassle that I abandoned with the Stalkers, and am inclined to abandon here, too.
2) restoring an average of 10 wounds while being safe off the table is a bit much, maybe just one model? especially since, going by the old blister pack, the unit size should only be 2 anyway? Or maybe just heal existing models?

Tomb Swarm

Move: 6"
Wounds 5
Save -
Bravery 10

MELEE WEAPONS
  • Bites and Stingers: Range 1", Attacks 5, To Hit 5+, To Wound 5+, Rend -, Damage 1
DESCRIPTION

A unit of tomb swarms. The creatures that make up the swarm attack with Bites and Stingers.

ABILITIES

Desert Ambush: Instead of setting up this unit normally, you can place it to one side and say that it is set up beneath the sands. At the end of any of your movement phases, you can set up this unit anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" from any enemy models. If this unit has not been set up by the start of the fourth battle round, it is treated as slain.

Hidden Abodes: As the battle progresses, this unit is rejoined by more of its scuttling brethren who had remained hidden. If this unit is on the battlefield at the start of your hero phase, remove any wounds currently allocated to models in the unit.

KEYWORDS: DEATH, TOMB KINGS, TOMB SWARM

Again, though, I'm inclined to make tomb swarms and carrion into invocations, along with maybe Apophas. Any thoughts?
 
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Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,410
I think that's everything except the necrotect and the main statue units - sphinxes, ushabti, and bone giants, who I'm still considering revisions too.

The current revised scrolls are aggregated in this post: LINK

Oppenheimer Grave Tacticus The Sun King & anyone else - Any thoughts so far? In particular:

1) does the implementation of liche priests and casket of souls as "priests that can unbind like a wizard" work?

2) does 'my will be done' as a standard command ability for tomb kings of all stripes work?

3) does this version of Settra work - particularly the Crown of Nehekhara?

4) does this version of Khalida work? She's one of the most heavily revised of the existing warscrolls, basically rewritten from scratch in an exception to the stated goals of the project at this stage. Am I overstepping? Setting aside points cost (she'd obviously need to come up), am I overtuning her?

5) does this version of the skeleton legionnaires work? they're the second most heavily rewritten. Considering that chariots and horsemen are battleline, that khalida makes archers battleline, and that there will probably be options to make warphinxes and tomb guard battleline, would you ever see yourself fielding this version of legionnaires as they are? If not, what do you think they need? Keep in mind that, as the most basic of basic battleline infantry, their warscroll absolutely needs to be as simple as possible, especially considering they already have the pretty significant healing banner. Like, we're talking at most maybe one additional special rule, which shouldn't be at all complicated, and unlike the previous version should not be based on how many models are in the unit. Should we maybe also consider upping their unit size to 20?

6) Are the revised banners on the chariots and necroknights an excessive or unwarranted nerf? I know bringing back a whole 5 wound model every turn was cool, but to me it felt a bit overtuned back in the day, and resurrection rules in general have been toned down in 3rd. Keeping in mind that points can be adjusted if necessary, am I overstepping? Do the warscrolls still seem fun to use?

7) Is the revised banner on the herald acceptable? Again, am I overstepping, changing something that didn't need to be changed in a way that conflicts with the spirit of the first phase of this project? Or are my instincts right that the original version was maybe too much, particularly alongside chariots and necroknights, and that this is a better fit for the overall faction design of 3rd edition?

8) while it isn't something I'll be implementing in Phase 1 either way, what do you think of my proposal to make carrion, tomb swarms, and prince apophas into Invocations (the prayer version of endless spells), instead of regular units? Am I right that there are too many redundant deep striking harassers in the first place?

9) What about the idea of remaking the casket of souls as faction terrain? Again, it's not something that would be implemented in phase 1, but it's such an iconic model, I like the idea of every tomb king army getting to run it for free and not having to ask if its rules are worth the points or not. The down side of making it into terrain is that you'd need to significantly scale down its effects.
 

The Sun King

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Staff member
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Aug 22, 2012
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Copenhagen
Discussion Sidebar: Summonable Keyword

Here's a quick topic for discussion - do we want to bring back the summonable keyword, for use with miscelaneous healing effects we might add later (prayers, artefacts, battle traits, tomb herald banner, etc)? If so, which units should be 'summonable'? I'm inclined to say skeleton legionnaires, skeleton horsemen, skeleton horse archers, tomb guard, and.... maybe that's it? should chariots be summonable? Just units with healing banners? Speaking of, should we keep those banners as they are, or have banners do something else and bring in recursion some other way? 5 wound per hero phase healing on chariots and necroknights (or 10 wounds with a nearby herald) was pretty oppressive....
I like the idea of bringing in the summonable keyword. It is something that the Death factions use generally and is closely tied to the death identity. I also think that the units that you mention are the ones that should have it.

Regarding different units I'll leave some comments below:

Khalida:
I like your new take on her. I think she deserves to be powerful. However I think that she should not have only 1 attack: I would suggest that we give her something like 4 attacks with 3+/3+/-1/1 dam and then still have the ASL effect. Other suggestions: remove her Command Ability as she is not really a normal Tomb King and she is also a Priest. Also the wording you have made on the Supernatural Speed could be simpler: "High Queen Khalida has a 5+ Ward. Additionally she Strikes-First in combat."

Skeleton Legionaires:
I think the +1 attack if they didn't charge is a bit more flavourful than the outnumbering, but both are cool.

Skeleton Horsemen:
I like what you've suggested. However, I think that given the fact that Tomb Kings have actual heavy cavalry in Necro Knights then this unit should have another function than damage dealing. I really liked them in 8th where they were a harassment unit. The Deathly Charge could be exchanged for Retreat and Charge?

Skeleton Archers:
I like them as you've made them.

Skeleton Horsearchers:
I like them except their movement rule. I would suggest the Like the Angry Desert Wind was reworded to: "This unit can run and still shoot."

Tomb Guard:
I like them a lot! However, I would suggest to change it so that they have 4+ to hit and 3+ to wound. It is a minor thing, but it makes them a prime target for All-Out Attack which I like.


Awesome work so far Sception!
 
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Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,410
I like the idea of bringing in the summonable keyword. It is something that the Death factions use generally and is closely tied to the death identity. I also think that the units that you mention are the ones that should have it.

Regarding different units I'll leave some comments below:

Khalida:
I like your new take on her. I think she deserves to be powerful. However I think that she should not have only 1 attack: I would suggest that we give her something like 4 attacks with 3+/3+/-1/1 dam and then still have the ASL effect. Other suggestions: remove her Command Ability as she is not really a normal Tomb King and she is also a Priest. Also the wording you have made on the Supernatural Speed could be simpler: "High Queen Khalida has a 5+ Ward. Additionally she Strikes-First in combat."
I'm open to changing her weapon stats, but in terms of threat a single attack dealing D3 mortals will generally be more dangerous than 4 attacks with the suggested profile. i like her shooting & melee being the same, and the idea of a single deadly attack. That said, a lot of tomb kings scrolls are handing out mortal wounds in one way or another, and gw has been cutting back on that in 3rd edition, so you mighg be right.

Either way, i'm glad that you like the strikes first/strikes last idea. she's never been the hardest hitter, yet somehow in the lore far more deadly heroes - especially vampires like neferata - are scared to go near her. a gimmick where she fights first and does just a little damage, but that damage makes the target go last and potentially get beaten down by whatever other tomb king units are nearby, seems to work for that. I like the idea of khalida with some tomb guard or ushabti anchering the middle of an archer + catapult firing line, buffing the archers & counter-charging anything that gets too close.

As for being, effectively, a king and a priest, i think that fits. She /is/ a tomb king, the mummified ruler of her city. Being the commaning leader type fits her. She is also an incarnation of asaph, so being a priest still fits. Same with how this version of settra is also both a king and a priest. Imo acceptable for these sorts of special characters.

Plus in a final version 'my will be done' is likely to be made into a faction trait, since it's shared by every embalmed hero, and it would be awkward to word it in a way that excludes khalida.

Skeleton Legionaires:
I think the +1 attack if they didn't charge is a bit more flavourful than the outnumbering, but both are cool.

I think the current version is +1 save if didn't charge, with no +1 attack at all, under the theory that their attacks do nothing anyway and they're only there to soak hits until something else counter-charges? But +1 attack is more standard, and a better fit for what the legends warscroll is about. should it be that?

Either way, yeah, i think 'if they didn't charge' is better flavor for them than outnumbering, so that part's probably staying, even if the actual bonus is still up in the air.

Skeleton Horsemen:
I like what you've suggested. However, I think that given the fact that Tomb Kings have actual heavy cavalry in Necro Knights then this unit should have another function than damage dealing. I really liked them in 8th where they were a harassment unit. The Deathly Charge could be exchanged for Retreat and Charge?

i'm pretty convinced, though withdraw & charge is a pretty specialized mobility rule for a default battleline unit in a classical undead army, should they lose battleline if we do that? & should we implement that now, or save it for the hypothetical Phase 2?

Skeleton Horsearchers:
I like them except their movement rule. I would suggest the Like the Angry Desert Wind was reworded to: "This unit can run and still shoot."

that would be a lot more streamlined, & shooting in the movement phase doesn't work with 'my will be done' - not that they'd be a good fit for it anyway. Am sold.

Tomb Guard:
I like them a lot! However, I would suggest to change it so that they have 4+ to hit and 3+ to wound. It is a minor thing, but it makes them a prime target for All-Out Attack which I like.

I don't know. I think more accuracy & less impact is a better fit for the fluff of their weapons, and for the cursed weapon effect, mechanically. plus it makes them prefer the faction-specific "my will be done" as a combat phase CA buff, which feels appropriate to me, and encourages you to take a tomb king with them instead of just letting their champion handle everything.

I'm available to be convinced here, it would just take a bit more convincing than that. :p

Awesome work so far

Thanks! I kind of doubt this project will ever get as far as a full mengel miniatures style homebrew battletome, but I think a playable Legends style pdf document is within reasonable striking range.
 
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Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,410
speaking of withdrawing and still doing stuff, I'm inclined to drop the 'withdraw & shoot' feature of the musicians, as much as that renders musicians pretty inconsequential to those units. withdraw & shoot strikes me as a pretty significant ability, where shooting alone is a pretty big deal for undead. you could then give horse archers withdraw & shoot back as a signature ability, and pair it to withdraw & charge for the horsemen with spears as a sort of parallel thing.
 

The Sun King

Moderator
Staff member
True Blood
Aug 22, 2012
4,499
Copenhagen
Those are all valid enough points, keep the units as they are.

Your talk about Khalida gave me an idea though! Tomb Guards should definitely have the Spirit Hosts bodyguard ability!

By the way, Tyler Mengel actually posted on this forum some while back. Don’t think he is currently around though.
 

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