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Tomb Kings

Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
100
#1
I'm an old VC player who quit a while back and just recently started up again. I got my friend to get into WHFB too, and he decided to start a Tomb King army. We're due to play a 1.5k battle asap, and I'm trying to decide some decisive tactics I could use against TK. I had heard that their magic was pretty strong so I started thinking of ways to use the black coach to my advantage, but then I realized their spells don't use power dice, therefore leaving me with no dice to absorb with my coach.

One character idea I had was to give a vampire avatar of death with a great weapon and maybe the lynchi talisman so I could have him demolish any chariots my friend may have early in the game. But I'm not sure how solid of a plan that is. Especially when my initial tactic with my vampire was to give him red fury, blood drinker, and have him join my grave guard. That way he'd be extremely hard to take out and he'd also replenish some wounds to my grave guard so as to make that unit a strong force to deal with.

Any ideas on how I could use hidden tricks in the VC army to catch my TK friend off guard?

Thanks in advance for any advice
 

Tal Rasha

Grave Guard
Joined
Jan 24, 2008
Messages
208
#2
TK players still generate 2 PD in the magic phase and your coach may attempt to absorb those, but the TK player only uses those to dispel RIP spells, so it's hardly a hinderance to him. The best defence against the TK player is go heavy magic with at least 2 dispel scrolls. Rush across the field ASAP using the scrolls and dispel dice to block as many spells as you can. Your troops are better than his on average and you should be ok once you engage in melee.
 

Grish

Liche
True Blood
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
5,444
#3
TK armies are by nature, flexible. I find the best way to fight the TK is to try and control their movement by putting the pressure on key units; the hierophant and priests. These are necessary to their strong magic phase, and if you can put dents in it, it will go a long way to securing victory. By threatening these pieces, you can force him to respond and hopefully manipulate his units in a way that will allow a hole to develop that you can exploit.

When the TK army plan is in full swing, I find it devastating. But their inter-reliance is also how to really hurt them... be wary of their fast cav chariots hitting something.

At this level of game, I'd beware of tomb scorpions suiciding against the general. Your general is S5, T4... Tomb Scorpions are S5, T5, W4, A4 with killing blow and poison. They are really effective at this level of game. Ensure he can't get at your general or that you protect your general with armour.

A vampire with great weapon, hatred, and the talisman that gives M9 might come in very handy as well. TK love their chariots; who wouldn't love a unit of Fast Cav chariots dealing d3 impact hits per unit? The great weapon vampire will bust those up.
 
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
688
#4
Tomb Kings are a nice balanced army that is almost impossible to cheese-out so you should have a good game [although undead vs undead games could get depressing fast so try and sucker a few more people into the hobby ;)].

However, the reason why you don't see them scoring high in tournaments is because they have almost nothing to deal with monsters or fast-moving heavy hitters. A Dragon/Varghulf will mess up a Tomb Kings army, as will a unit of Blood Knights [who find even more value because against the 'Kings they cannot be baited into a failed charge].

If you want to exploit that crucial weakness then go for it, although it's a little bit cruel as it's the list's weakness rather than anything your opponent has done wrong.

Your wolf-thrall idea is a good one, although a unit of Tomb King light chariots only cost around 150 points so make sure that you hit hard to make your points back.

At larger point games, beware the classic Tomb King set-up of Destroyer of Eternities with Collar of Shapesh in a unit of Tomb Guard/Skeleton Warriors with Banner of the Undying Legion. This is our equivalent of the super Grave Guard unit; the lord has an incredibly choppy sword [can auto-hit multiple targets if desired] with marvellous protection [wounds suffered can be transferred to his unit] and the banner restores wounds to the entire unit.

Also expect the mandatory 2 Tomb Scorpions to pop up behind your lines; these will either charge your weaker units or just float around making a nuisance of themselves march-blocking your army. It's up to you how you deal with these, although be wary of a suicidal charge into one of your characters. The Scorps have both killing blow and poison and will simply allocate all of their attacks on any character they get close to - at a dirt cheap price a scorp will usually regain his points value after just one character assassination.

Beware the above tricks if you opponent inquired on a Tomb Kings forum for advice like you did.
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
100
#5
Thanks for all the advice. I have what I feel is a pretty solid game plan. The only thing still in the air is whether or not to make my vampire a chariot hunter. I still can't decide between the blood drinker + red fury combo vs the avatar of death S7 idea. I'm going to have a Corpse Cart, so that would give my vampire first strike wouldn't it? Which would be A3 S7 from the vampire with strike first, which would make him great for destroying chariots and also pretty good at taking out characters.

I've thought of a good way to hold up his strong units and how to deal with scorpions. I just don't know if it'd be more beneficial to "guarantee" my Grave Guard's success with a self replenishing vampire, or to "guarantee" the destruction of his fast calv chariots. Any further thoughts on this matter?
 
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
688
#6
I would stick with the lycni talisman vampire. He'll pressure any chariots and be fast-moving enough to perhaps catch his hierophant which I almost guarantee will have the Cloak of Dunes giving him flying movement. Just bear in mind that if you have him zipping around the place, chances are he won't be in range to benefit from the combat effects of the Corpse Cart.

Simply, he'll be much more useful to you. The blood drinker vampire will be in one place fulfilling one role [albeit rather well], but the lycni vamp can be disposed however you want.
 
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
220
#7
tomb kings are hopeless against vc their chariots mean nothing at all just spawn zombies in front of them and for the skull catapult all you need to do is get your flying vampire their a.s.a.p
 

Christophe von Carstein

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 30, 2008
Messages
1,015
#8
my battles against TKs were easy to out magic them a couple of cheap necromancers and Mannfred worked well becuase TK summon is not as good as vampires and after that he has extra move or extra attacks and that you can easily dispel scroll and half time easy enough to dispel because they only use like 2PD max.
use the fact that i dont think TKs can march at all (thats what i was told anyway because i collected them for all of 5 min and moved on to vampires)
when it came to combat i got charge so chariots proved useless skeletons evenly matched but vampires easily put end to that.
black knights easily outmatch there heavily cavalry and zombies for numbers. :lol:
 

chris_havoc

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
1,108
#9
I like my hero. Especially against tomb kings. Hellsteed, Balefire Spike, Flayed hauberk, Red Fury. St 7 hits, deal double wounds to his flamable stuff and get extra attacks for every wound you do. :)
 

Voltaire

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
2,763
#11
Would you be offended if I asked you to prove it was boring?

TK vs VC can be boring if you both go all skeletons or something similar but variance in the army like chariots, Ushabti, the Vargulf and Blood Knights but to name a few, make the games quite interesting overall. Its just they aren't the traditional games of Warhammer.
 
Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
196
#13
TK are really hurt under 2000 points because they lose the lord. Yes, VC take a big drop too, but the TK one is bigger. At 1500 pts, 3 vampires will give you as many dispel dice as they have equivalent power dice, and those are stuck in just 3 things to dispel. And that's assuming they go 'magic heavy' with one prince and two priests. They could add a bound spell, but its just the equivalent of one invocation, so not much to care about.
 

Goggalor

Necromancer
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
862
#14
Dabber is right about tomb kings being hurt under 2000pts as not only do they now have limited dispel and incantations, their heirophant is as weak as a newborn. At least our hero level general has some backbone theirs is easy to kill. A flying or lycni suicide vamp could eat up a LP and then its game over. Tomb scorpions are annoting but unit strenght 3 and unless used in concert will take a while to eat a unit that does not flee. Also being special choices he is unlikely to have more than 1 if he wants chariots or the real killers in a tk army, the Ushabti.
And if he is new he will have to learn how to use them properly, the Tk army needs experience and co-ordination.
if he takes any cavalry then you can ignore them as they are rubbish and dire wolves can get them on the charge. Also if he has a SSC then he will be able to get ranging shots in the magic phase and repeat them in th shooting phase so it is imperative to dispel the incantation of rightous smiting, which you should be able to do.

(And breathe) Hope this helps
 

ProperGoffic

Bringing Sixy Back
True Blood
Joined
Feb 26, 2008
Messages
1,158
#15
Voltaire said:
Would you be offended if I asked you to prove it was boring?

TK vs VC can be boring if you both go all skeletons or something similar but variance in the army like chariots, Ushabti, the Vargulf and Blood Knights but to name a few, make the games quite interesting overall. Its just they aren't the traditional games of Warhammer.
I second that. I don't think I've ever played a boring Undead vs. Undead game, although I have played quite a few that have gone on for some time. In fact, my closest game ever was against another VC player with a very different build philosophy (he's magic and infantry mad, I prefer balanced Vampires and a lot of fast stuff). I think we ended on something like 620 VPs each. The number I'm not sure of, but it was exactly the same.
 
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