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Trying to break VC before the book is even out ...

Mutter

Skeleton
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Messages
60
#1
Posted the same over on TWF:

Okay, since we by now have pretty accurate rumors of what the new book is going to contain, evil minds are already at work to try and break the list ... here is my try:
(please bear with me - I know the book isn't even out yet, and I'm not trying to cry 'cheese', but unless all the people who have read the book so far have overlooked something serious, this build will be possible).

Lord, Forbidden Lore (all the spells from any one lore), Master of Dark Arts (+2 PD), Lord of the Dead (summon skelletons, +1 casting them), Skullstaff (+1 casting)
Thrall, Master Dark Arts, Book of Arkhan
Thrall, Master, Rod of Flaming Death
Thrall, Master, Periapt

3 x 20 skellies, full command, three magical banners
2 Black coaches

The rest of the list largely irrelevant (not that many points left, anyway - maybe 100 or 150) ... Smile, the main points are:

- the two coaches stay behind in terrain if warmachines are present
- the four vamps stay within 6 inches from at least one coach for two turns
- that way, the coaches 'draw' 15 dice (with periapt) from their own side and 2 from the opposing side, thus giving the coach almost three powers per turn - after the second turn, with any luck, one of the coaches will be flying and etheral.
In the meantime, we have around 13 powerdice, which we can use to raise skeletons multiple times with a +2 to casting (so on 2+) plus we can throw around three nasty bound spells a turn.
Even if this army does nothing for around four turns but cast magic and boost the coaches, it would mean game-over for most armies in turn 5 and 6, when one, possibly two flying, rank-breaking coaches rampage the field, being immune to any warmachines bar the dwarves' ...

Any thoughts on the list, any ideas how to counter it (apart from even soft comp Smile), any comments (apart from: 'It's too early to talk about the book, wait till it's officially out!' Very Happy).

Cheers, Mutter

*edit: Somebody over on TWF just wrote that the BC is rumored to have only US 4 - if so, the whole plan goes out the window. Just not worth the effort, just take a Varghulf instead ... :)*
 

N.I.B

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
2,370
#2
Mutter said:
Posted the same over on TWF:
Same here :)

Your suggested list is a little less than 2000 points, so you can add quite some support units, like 4x5 Dire Wolves and Fell Bats or 3 Spirit Hosts + Wolves at 2250.

Your setup on your general is almost exactly what I've used in an attempt to re-create a Necrach Lord.

As mentioned, no rank breaking for the Black Hole. But in all honesty, do you expect a lot of ranks in a no-holds-barred environment? :) The Coach is pretty deadly still. Had a test game against Skaven, it hit the 'ability roof' by the third turn when it stood between a Grey Seer and 2 Warlocks. The absorbation is pretty sick, combined with 7-8 dispel dice and +1 to dispel. Especially Teclis and all HE armies with that + 1D3 power dice to pool item will be a little toned down, if you can roll those sixes.

I prefer the Coach as normal-sized, as you can screen it. Ok, usually not from cannonballs and WLC's, but from S7 Dwarf bolts, Nike Lizards and Pit of Shades. And once stuck in, it's a mother to get rid off, between the ward save and the ability to heal.

I'm not too keen about Black Art on vampires. At lvl 1 they'll only be able to cast the three Necromancy spells with some degree of success, so it's up to your Lord to draw out those important first-second turn scrolls.
 

Mutter

Skeleton
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Messages
60
#3
Another tidbit that came out is that the dice from Master of the Dark Arts might not go into the general pool, but into the vampire#s personal one - in this case, this tactic is worth even less, since we'll be missing 8 Pd to fuel our ride ...

Ah well, would have been nice ... :D

Cheers, Mutter
 

N.I.B

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
2,370
#4
The new Coach plays a little different from the old. You probably want to use it centrally - partly because of the absorbation (not only from your wizards but also from wizards in the central parts of your opponent's army), partly because it no longer break ranks so no use charging flanks, and partly because it's so resilient so you can probably charge ranked units head on and survive until your next magic phase when it can be healed from your close-by wizards.
 

Tal Rasha

Grave Guard
Joined
Jan 24, 2008
Messages
208
#6
Without any supporting units, your skeletons will crumble to some nastier foes or MSU armies. But the idea of using the coaches like that is pretty cool. You may need to drop one for more supporting units.
 
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