Two points against society! Potentially offensive.

[Onikaigo]

(Specifically American)

So. I'm a military guy overseas. I'm a long way from home, and I'm doin' alright. But, even this far removed from 'Ze Motherland' as I shall henceforth call Amerika, I get the trends over here that beset the country I call home. And the country that coincidentally pays my bills.

Anyways.

Point Number 1!

When the hell did sitting in public, in a group of -8- people become 'the Zone' for everyone to pull out their iphones and check their facebook? I walked around that table all ninja like, and there were four Facebook ads open, one myspace, and three games being played. Around a breakfast table. With full opportunity to interact, talk, flirt (My my I wish she was 18...), or otherwise just flex something other than your thumbs.

Wtf? I don't even know what else to say that can correctly voice my disappointment with this! It's almost to the point of stupidity.

Point Number 2!

I'm so, so so tired of radio stations playing the same (To me) offensive songs. I don't know how many times I've heard that RnB tune 'Sex You Up' hit the airwaves, or the sheer stupidity of playing Three days Grace 'Break' three times in a row! And twice without interruption! I wanted to shoot myself in the head while driving. With a nailgun. I hate RnB/Rap specifically for the seemingly majority of songs are the same. Sex, Sex, Sex, Drugs, Beat my woman, more sex after I beat my woman, some drugs after, then. Oh. I want more sex.

Now, defenders of the (C)rap trend, don't get up in arms. I know there are different songs, but they're all covers for the real evil that is mainstream (C)rap. They're like diamonds in a field of shitty stolen zirconium. Hard to find, and virtually indistinguishable from the rest.

And (C)rap, as a 'Singing' style, is overrated and stupid to my ears. It's worse than noise. I'd rather hear Richard Simmons in the background that (C)rap.

And yes, that's the ONLY radio station over here that's in english. There's not a goodly variety.


My point is this: Wtf is up with America? I knew we were getting bad, but with these sort of things happening in such a remote foothold not on the mainland....I'm losing hope. The american teenager is turning into an introverted, lazy entity that expects to do nothing and demands everything.

So. Onto the offensive part. I also saw a three hundred pound woman wearing a miniskirt. She made it look like she was wearing duct tape.

Should that count as a third point....?

Whatever. I'm just gonna stay out of America as long as possible while in uniform. After I retire, what country would have me? Britain? Denmark? Anyone out there with a couch I can borrow while I get on my feet? (In 18 years or so?)

 

[Knightofni]

I agree with everything you just said Oni.. with one minor gribble.. its not just america, britain is just as bad and I'd go further and say that britain is probably worse.

Radio stations are the bane of my exsistance, well them and mushrooms.. ok, them mushroom and overactive siblings but I digress. In this country we have to put up with some shitty franchise 'heart radio' which plays the same 6 song playlist all day across all of its channels.. and it has stupid presenters that talk crap all day every day.. radios are becoming a depressing relic of a past age.

The music industry is practically dictated by the radio stations playlists.. people only hear whats on the radio so they only buy what they hear on the radio and thus the radio plays more shit.. yeah, music genres such as the various metals and the like will never been considered mainstream but some of the shit we have to put up with is.... words fail me.

And we have a seriously worrying 'celebrity culture' in this country where people value gossip about so called 'celebrities' by this I mean people who have achieved nothiing in their life but win a reality tv show and sell their bullshit lifestorys to glossy gossip magazines which a glorified toilet-rags.. our news is dominated by the affairs of overpaid footballers and their various transgressions.. just recently; a young woman canoed up the Amazon river.. a truly amazing feat for a twenty year old.. but no, our media is more interested in the fact that Cheryl Cole has split up with Ashely cos he's a cheating scumbag.

Society fuels media, media screws society, society begs for another screwing, media obliges..

 

[Swissdictator]

I'm in total agreement Onikaigo. I live in a decent sized city, go to college in a small town in rural Wisconsin. I see the same freaking nonsense.

I hate Rap with a passion too. It's emphasizing all the negative things, putting down the good, and encouraging things that will ruin our society. I've heard some rap from the 80's, and it seems totally different. Still not a fan, but nowhere near as disgusted. You also forgot that every other word seems to be some sort of variant of the f-word. I'm not sensitive about swearing, but when you're swearing to swear... or that's half the song... it's idiotic at best. Plus kids are getting worse about it. It's sad when basic training seems like it had cleaner speech than I hear in teens/early twenty year old people these days.

@knightofni: Oh I know it, the local hard rock station is no longer living up to its reputation. They're now playing all these triple cursed songs like Oni mentioned, or other songs that seem to be whiny/sappy aimed at tween girls, or songs like "You're a crazy *****", etc. There's little metal on there anymore! No Iced Earth at all, which is sad! Just the (rare) Rammstein, AC/DC, and the occasional Metallica thrown in as a bone.

I don't mind the digital easy access so much. In fact, I like that. I grew up with siblings thousands (or in the case of my brother, in Europe) away! He works at CERN, so we got introduced to the web in 1992. I wish I had a cell phone where I could keep tabs on my e-mail throughout the day. I'm not a facebook nut, so meh. However, you are right in how people turn down real life interaction for that. In my normal lunch group at school, one kid has an iPhone and is sometimes checking stuff, but he is still maintaining a conversation and everything.

I am also annoyed more and more by this "fat is beautiful" nonsense, or how you're not supposed to shun that. It's one thing if someone is *slightly* overweight. There is a clear difference between someone who is a little chubby (like my last girlfriend) and someone who is fat. There is a point where it is flat out disgusting. When your arm is thicker than most people's necks... it is just wrong. Either that or you better be tall or something.

I will judge people for being 75+ pounds over weight, and not feel bad at all! I'm not for regulating eating habits at all, though I'm for more health education. I eat a big cheeseburger with bacon 0-2, but it is a wonderful tasty thing! I also walk quite a bit, play with my dog, sometimes ride a bike. What frustrates me is when the parents are letting kids fatten up to where a ten year old outweighs me! What is WRONG with those people?! I make little to no effort in staying active (I'm sorry, I do those things because I have to or because it's fun)... and I'm 25 so my metabolism has to be slowing down a little... right? I'm stillt thin, I'm 150 pounds... are they actively avoiding ANY activity? Is wargaming that much more active than being a couch potato?!

Also the decline in people being even remotely considerate: never using turn signals, holding doors open isn't as common as it should be, dumber and dumber movies (see Will Farrel), politics seems to be less and less civil from both sides. What... the... blazes... is... wrong?!

I am sounding like an old codger... I really am...

 

[Onikaigo]

I am sounding like an old codger... I really am...

That was my last thought immediately after writing my initial post. I'm just happy that I'm not the only one regretting the loss of civility and social interaction.

I'm much the same as you, Swiss. I believe a little weight to be healthy. This 'Stick like' people are disgusting in most instances, but the same cloth holds that people 75+ pounds overweight are mostly disgusting. I've gone so far as to ask waiters to move seating assignment because they seat a gigantic person across from me in eyesight. I can't -stand- to watch a morbidly obese person eat. It's horrible nauseating.

Childhood obesity is a huge, huge problem. People keep turning to pills and psychologists for things that are so simple it makes me want to scream at them.

"My child is fat, but I can't tell him no whenever he/she wants a hamburger!"
"My kid wants the New (Insert X offensive rapper here) CD, so I bought it for them. Who needs to listen to it?"
"My daughter wants to dress like a slut. Sure, why not. Otherwise she'll get made fun of."
"My Daughter -IS- a slut, but she can take care of her kid at 16. It's common these days."
"Sit down, watch TV. Daddy's tired."


Instead of 'Go play outside.' We have 'Put in the movie!'
In place of Family night, we have 'Daddy goes to bed early night.'
In place of real life bullying, where a kid can smack his accuser in the jaw, we have Cyber bullies.
In place of kids fighting back, we have kids whose parents won't allow them to fight back.

And who says kids don't learn from their sensory inputs? Video games, music, movies....these are all combining to create a horrific effect in young kids.

For example. Take a walk through a mid grade school (Ages 6-12, for instance) and listen to the language they use. Look at the way they emulate the artists they admire, the way they walk, the attention they give anything that isn't 'Cool' or 'Hip', and the very way they treat any sort of authority figure. Honestly, I'd say Rock is a much less destructive influence than Rap or RnB.

Society is totally screwed. I need a shout out from some other country that has it a little better than America. I'm still hunting for a retirement spot. Preferably one by water.

 

[Sanai]

I hate rap too.
cRap is spelt with a silent "c".
Life is like a box of chocolates. You have to throw away the rappers.

I think it is appalling that songs like Rhiannas "Umberella" and Britney spears's "Shameless" get air time. They are inane and stupid. While really great musicians and bands just get ignored. Then they play them over and over and over.
Then, theres the tv shows. Ones like secret life of an american teenager, gossip girl and make it or break it. They are all on prime foxtel spots, and are all just about young girls sleeping around and being really, really bitchy and nasty to each other. How is that entertaining? What are you encouraging?
Then, theres the news. Over here in australia, the news is just entertainment. It has no substance.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Good god it is nice to hear the same things I think off other people.

This may come as a shock to you who know of my perverted nature, but I fully agree (you can still be a polite pervert: Can I please see your boobs )

Britain is indeed just as bad. The is next to no discipline left in this country and it is going down the drain. The amount of parents I see who will not discipline their kids because they don’t want to upset them is unbelievable. Parents who won’t say no, and it drives me mad.

I heard something when I was young, and it is damn right: “You can be a parent or a friend but not both” It’s true, because there will come a point where you will have to a decision, to do something you know is right even though your child will get upset. In the past most people did what was right, not nowadays.

I think most of current society’s problem’s are down to people being over protective and nannying / mollycoddling. I am damn strict with my two girls:

They use manners “please”, “thankyou”, “excuse me” or they don’t get anything.
They speak respectfully to people, and by that I mean words and tone
They eat what they bloody get given. I am not rich, and I am not buying everyone an individual meal. They don’t want to eat it? Fine I won’t force it down their throats, but they don’t get any treats or puddings.
They have set bedtimes and they stick to them. There is no crap such as I’m not tired etc
They get bought things outside birthdays / xmas as a treat now and then, not as a given. Plus they have to be good.

They break any rules and they get punished. No discussion, no ifs buts or maybes. They get punished.

And you know what? I may come down on them hard, they may get punished, but I still get hugs and kisses, they are still pleased to see me. The nine year old who isn’t my own child turned round last Sunday and actually said thank you to me, because since I have taught her these things people like her more, manners has actually got her more friends etc (I was really proud on that day).

Don’t get me wrong – it was bloody hard work and still is. But when I have a toddler who isn’t 3 yet, saying please and thank you, having more manners and being nice that children twice her age it is well worth it.

And that’s the big problem – people do not want to work hard at anything. They want it all handed on a plate, for things to just “happen”, for children to raise themselves. I blame a lot of the parents, as kids turn out how you raise them mainly. Put in enough hard work and you can change their lives for the better.

In regards to rap & R&B – I don’t like it, mainly for the reasons Oni said. To be honest I think the best days of music was back in the 80s.

As for fat people – well that depends. Some people do have glandular issues, and for that I have sympathy. I would hate to get fat no matter what I did. But for those who just eat and eat? It winds me up, especially when they then get so fat they then apply for free medical treatment which we have on the NHS in the UK, costing us thousands of pounds. Its your fault your that fat, its tough. Personally I do not find fat obese attractive, but then nor I do like skinny size 0 women. I like naturally curvy women, just as nature intended!

 

[Master Vampire]

Gah, I'm on with most points people state. I do think though there are radio stations out there that do not play mainstream music, you just have to look well.

And so it has always been like this. I think that not much has changed about this over time, but I do think that the media has changed a lot. And that's to the Dutch invention (Endemol :mad2, reality tv series litter the tv with useless television. In my opinion, they do nothing to contribute to your learning or even amusement. What can you learn watching a few people in a house, every day? I mean, if I want to see monkeys, I'll go to the zoo.

I've had times I want to disconnect from every media-related. This includes PC and the papers too (which are just as bad as television). The news is not news anymore... Every week there is just this huge, non-issue that takes every newspapers' frontpage for several days. It's just weird.

Sometimes I wonder what life would be like without television, radio or internet. I think you'd feel better. Then again, you wouldn't be on here, would you? Walk life only with a telephone for communcication. If you want to speak to someone, you visit them, and do not write them on Myspace or Facebook or MSN. Although this would limit international communication, of course. The question remains, do you benefit at all from international interaction? Learning foreign language (for me) of course, but it's not vital to existence.

 

[Grish]

I could go on a rant here, but I'm going to point out a couple of things:

Rap and RnB have the same roots. And they're very old. Original RAP (Rythm and Poetry) and RnB (Rhythm and Blues) actually come from the slave trade, and singing in the fields. Its why voice singing with a lot of black communities is so popular. Original forms are just beautiful to hear. I love old blues music.

In their current form... well, who blames them. It's like Marilyn Manson. If I can sing like that and make a couple million dollars, I would, for sure. If the common people didn't like it, they wouldn't do it, simple as that. I think RaP and many other things are symptoms, and not the cause, of a sick society. Same with video games and death metal that sings about killing people and media that reports another bombing, another shooting. It's a song, it doesn't control your life. It's a story, put there because that's what people tune into. Canada has a channel that continually broadcasts the House of Commons (government). Guess how many tune into that, and that shapes the very environment we live in? We could all tune in to important House of Commons events and vote ourselves, but no one seems to care. I myself will listen to Slayer occasionally; its not like I believe in anything they sing about. I just like the fast guitar work. It's giving people what they want.

We need to stop defetishizing ourselves from our environment, and make choices. Yes, I bought a 17 dollar bag of coffee instead of a 5 dollar can that had triple the amount because it's fair trade and organic. Yes, I bought something that cost triple what I could have got it from Walmart because it was made in Canada. Yes, all my investments are 70% in Canadian owned companies and resources. How can you blame people for misusing their employees when that's what we support? How can you blame that shitty music on the radio when it's what people buy? It wasn't always like this.

As DoN says, its parents themselves that are to blame. Teach your kids right from wrong, spend time with them. Make friends with like minded people, interact with them. Teach your kids what good music is, and how to make good choices. Support what you believe in, spread the word. Don't look to the leaders to fix things, just look to yourself.

 

[Ossai]

Personally I think we should bring back National Minimum Service. Basically serve 1 year in the forces (or 2 years in a Civil service job). This will teach people self discipline and self control as well as a host of other things. Also because it is such a physical oriented thing it would reduce the health problems you get in a lot of 18-25 year olds.

To back up my statement there was a TV program on a while ago, where they took a bunch of "chavs" and put them in a military barracks. Not one of them could hack it. If you did that to everyone some people would turn out a lot better than they otherwise would.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

I actually agree with that. A year in the army, teaching lots of things that parents miss out on, such as discipline, manners, respect etc would work wonders.

 

[Onikaigo]

Ohhh boy. If Minimum Service happened in the U.S there'd be a riot!

But I'd be in uniform with my rifle smacking some upset daddeh down.


I agree with what people have said here 100%. I've got a retirement spot lined up in Denmark, outside a little town called Roskilde as a friend told me it was quiet, still had people, and was a pretty locale. Sounds good to me, and it's not crazy like the rest of the world.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Looks like we will be next door neighbours then Oni

 

[Master Vampire]

I've got a retirement spot lined up in Denmark, outside a little town called Roskilde as a friend told me it was quiet, still had people, and was a pretty locale. Sounds good to me, and it's not crazy like the rest of the world.

Are you really sure Onikaigo?

http://www.roskilde-festival.dk/uk

Even the Dutch know of this one Must mean something.

 

[Capt Rubber Ducky]

Some good points raised here and I agree with most, there's a lot of writing. You oldies are very good at grumbling .

Along with the manners issue, people that swear while talking normally annoys me it just not needed. Also people talking in text/Msn language, that annoys me.

That's enough grumbling from me.

 

[Master Vampire]

Hey, I'm just 20 I'm not old!

Also people talking in text/Msn language, that annoys me

I sometimes have the urge to say 'lol' in real life, but it also means having fun in Dutch... Since my brother has pointed out to me that I do this, I take exceptional care not to say it in public :lol2:

 

[Abbysal]

I'm a bit bad with my bad language, It always seems to be worse when I talk with my father. Probably from working 10 years on building sites. I don't think it's that bad though, I don't think I am ever first to swear in any given conversation (except maybe online) but if the other person or persons start I just seem to go for broke! That's pretty sad!! I must be a sheep.

I also agree with everything on here.
What are every ones thoughts about corporal punishment? Do you think they should bring it back? I'm not just talking about hanging and the like but about school discipline etc to. Don't take that the wrong way I am definitely against any kind of abuse!

I'm sure most of your Parents will say the same things to you as mine " Never hurt me, I grew up fine" etc etc.

 

[Ophidicus]

"Never did me any harm!" they say. "You advocate violence against children!" I say. Silly nonsense. "Beat some sense in" they say. "Beat some reason out!" I say.

In my view, much of the "wrongness of society" we see today* is because Britain was sold down the river under the Thatcher government, much of it in tandem with Reagan. Our entire financial structure is based on the privileged few in positions of power making profit and widening the class divide. Britain has little merit in terms of manufacturing or resources, despite the many millions of willing & capable people who could be so employed, and were until it was decided it was cheaper to get foreigners to dig Britain's coal and forge its steel than stand on its own two feet. I fear we may be heading towards a global corporate state with a global class system, the poor do the dirty work & the rich advertise to the subdued. Like they do now, only more so.

Regarding radio/TV and it not doing what you want: If you want something you can't find, look harder. People are fed and told what to want, in a self-perpetuating cycle to syphon wealth from little wallets into great big coffers. Keep them fed, blame them for their eating habits. That said, I have never made a secret of my love for the BBC, Radio 4 in particular, and greatly respect their ideals of impartiality & representation, the BBC represents the free press as well as anyone. Sadly in terms of music their most genuinely progressive & enlightened DJ died several years ago, and is much missed. I was, incidentally rather glad to see the 'Heavy Metal Britannia' program a few weeks ago, a very intelligent & respectful documentary, including, as a foil to my 'it was better when everyone worked in factories' rhetoric above, how shit it was to work in a factory.

As I was saying: If you want it, find it. The radio won't do anything for you, but we live in the age of free entertainment exchange & there are many able & talented musicians of every sort who are able to get recognition through the internet they could never have imagined in the days of record company dominance, and who would very much appreciate your support. Look, and you will find, in abundance. If anything, the worst cultural impact of mass marketing is that it seeks to drive out the will to find out for one's self what the world has to offer, & only see what is on the silver (or whatever skin you choose from the online store) platter. Don't be dazzled!

*Not to say today is any different to any other period, I highly doubt there was a true 'golden age of childhood' in which everybody was well behaved & did as their parents told them & wanted nothing more than to frolick in the meadows.

Conscription: Hmm, unquestioning obedience, marching in step, it really isn't for me.

It'd be much more preferable to help people make up their own minds about what they want to do, give them as much field experience in as many fields as possible, than to force people into things that will alienate and stratify.

What I really have a problem with is this silly 'national pride' drivel people harp on about, & the union jack, a bunch of stripes & triangles, an abstract vector illustration. I'm not proud of it, it's ugly. "Don't you love your country?" Mine!? I really don't think anyone can claim ownership of a piece of rock, I don't own it any more than the worms & rats do, & they don't think in terms of credit or entitlement. I love the landscape, I love the wildlife, the coastline, the architecture and the people, as much here in Britain as anywhere in the world, but state & nation are just a series of abstract dilineations, macroscopic square holes into which we round pegs are forced.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

[mod]Moved to new forum[/mod]

 

[Danceman]

Like Marcus Briggstocke said in his stand up;
"You know what would happend if all the fat people in Britian jumped at once?"
"..."
"I imagine they'd lose some f**king weight...".

But I agree, on a whole. Even though I am into the hiphop scene I won't defend all the gangsta BS that is being thrown around. It is not about the art. It is has no soul, it has no substance. It is just depressing to listen to. Thankfully the underground scene is still alive with people who's in it for the art. I mean the whole package. The mc, the dj and indeed, the poetry. Rhyming sentences to a beat doesn't make you a MC... Hell, most of the new rappers doesn't even bother with that. They just talk and grimance angerily at the camera and crowd to look "legit".
As far as I am concerned, the bile that is pumped out through the radio and MTV is just food for the drooling retards that will eat up anything the popular media shoves down their throat.

Which segways nicely into fat people and what I feel about the "fat is sexy" bullshit too. No it is not sexy. You can't force me to like something I do not.
That said I don't hate them, that be silly, they're people like anyone else but, yeah, don't tell me they're sexy. The only one you're hurting is them. They'll continue living a lie untill one day they'll figure it out for themselves that maybe, just maybe, this was all just a dream. There is common decency and there is political correctness gone mental.
Not to mention the health issues that comes with it.

Ysterday I was buying groceries and there was this gigantic kid. I mean it was sad to see it... Then I saw her mom. Same story there. I couldn't quite help myself but my stare got rather cold. That idiot is putting her child into an early grave. Then I saw the crap they had in their cart... Urrrghh...

But we're all special little snowflakes who's beautiful and fantastic no matter what we do... Right... :mad2:

 

[Zephyr]

I too dislike rap-music for the horrible messages it has. I always say rap stands for; Retards Attempting Poetry. I also listen to bands that can be considered shocking or having violent lyrics but the difference is that they do it for either shock-value or bring an important point across. They don't actually say to go out buy a gun and shoot up others or slap your wife around.

I mean how many rap-artists have been shot, arrested doing illegal stuff etc.? The gangsta life isn't a dream but these millionaire artists make kids believe it is by showing them their "cribs", three cars, excessive bling etc. Who cares somebody else has to pay for it? Who cares about the kids who quit college and start to live on tha street because it's cool? And who cares about all the young girls growing up calling themselves bitches an trying to crawl into bed with as many guys as possible? Disgusting, simply disgusting.

I'm all for pleasures of the flesh but good God the stuff you see on daytime television today just isn't normal anymore! I've actually thrown all music channels off my television because of this and it isn't like they play any really interesting music; only the stuff that sells.

People have always been worried about the influence of media on kids and yeah it's there alright but we never had anything as gross like this nor so many "parents" simply not raising them. It's a combined problem and not only a media-issue.

Oh and as for fat people; I'm pretty round due to medication but I agree that if you are big you should never ever try to cram yourself into skinny-people fashion.
Also, if you are fat for God's sake eat regular food! People who whine that they are being called fat but go to the Burger King every day need some serious self-reflection.

 

[Johnny B]

britain is just as bad and I'd go further and say that britain is probably worse.

I agree. At least in America you could shoot a chav if he's sitting in your driveway throwing beer cans at your house in the middle of the night. I'm generally very anti-gun... until I leave the house and walk amongst my fellow UK inhabitants. You know there's something amiss when walking into a mass of sweaty geeks in a GW store feels like a massive step up in company :lol:
And wtf is up with idiots playing the world's worst music loudly from a phone when on the bus?!

Personally I think we should bring back National Minimum Service.

Strongly disagree. Military service would be a living hell for someone like me, I am a private person, hate meatheads (sorry guys but there's a lot of them in the army), hate belligerent authority and cannot live without art and books. It would benefit a lot of the mannerless oiks that roam our streets though. Maybe some kind of IQ-based compulsory service??

And we have a seriously worrying 'celebrity culture' in this country where people value gossip about so called 'celebrities' by this I mean people who have achieved nothiing in their life but win a reality tv show and sell their bullshit lifestorys to glossy gossip magazines which a glorified toilet-rags.. our news is dominated by the affairs of overpaid footballers and their various transgressions.. just recently; a young woman canoed up the Amazon river.. a truly amazing feat for a twenty year old.. but no, our media is more interested in the fact that Cheryl Cole has split up with Ashely cos he's a cheating scumbag.

It is truly, truly, depressing to walk into the newsagents and realise you don't actually want to buy any of the many publications on offer. What's worse is when you go to a bookshop and get the same feeling... although I suppose I should consider myself lucky that Watford still has a bookshop. Yes, that's one bookshop. A million pointless chav cafes and grotty bars, shitty clothes stores and accessory shops, but only one shop that sells reading material. And it sucks.

Regarding music, I primarily object to people who don't play instruments or sing calling themselves musicians. The same way I object to 'fine artists' who 'purposefully draw like a child, expressively', or make 'installations'. No. You just can't draw, mainly due to an all-too-apparent lack of talent or dedication. Face it, get a normal job and stop taking all the money.
I gave up listening to the radio a long, long time ago. Similarly, I don't watch TV apart from films and animation. In fact, I am actually a hermit. What can I say, the internet is a hermit's dream.

 

[Sanai]

Johnny B, I personally find alot of art installations to be incredibly clever and artistic.
And some who draw like a child expressivly actually do it for an artistic reason, and can actually draw well in other artworks. Please do not assume that all of them are crappy artists. I find that offensive.

Heres my case in point.

His artwork is a classic example of an artist thinking outside the box and using different materials and media to encourage others to do so. His best art is installation art, and it definatly does not lack dedication. He built this stuff, out of foam and resin, and his work is scattered throughout europe, with alot of his sculptures taking pride of place throughout paris. That large one is actually classed as a historical monument.
edit: His name is Jean Dubuffet.

 

[Ossai]

Personally I think we should bring back National Minimum Service.

Strongly disagree. Military service would be a living hell for someone like me, I am a private person, hate meatheads (sorry guys but there's a lot of them in the army), hate belligerent authority and cannot live without art and books. It would benefit a lot of the mannerless oiks that roam our streets though. Maybe some kind of IQ-based compulsory service??

Now that is why I also added the civil service, where you still have a lot of your freedom and privacy, but are still taught all the useful things.

IQ compulsery service could be a good idea though

 

[Sanai]

The civil service? You want people to have to go into the dull, endless, impotent nightmare that is beurocracy?
Don't you realise? The Beuarocracy is growing to service the growing needs of the beaurocracy!

 

[Abbysal]

And some who draw like a child expressively actually do it for an artistic reason, and can actually draw well in other artworks. Please do not assume that all of them are crappy artists. I find that offensive.

I don't think that's what he meant Sanai, I think he means one piece of sh@# doodle on a torn out piece of notepad displayed at the London Portrait Museum.

I can give you my own example.....

I think it's a lot better than the other cr@# actually!!