Unprofessionalism--Light Language

[Onikaigo]

Alright, this is really getting to me.


As most of you know by now I'm military. USAF, proud to be military doing something that's bigger than I am (And DoN, don't take that the wrong way, I's a patriot!), and even though most of the people I work with are completely dispassionate, I manage to keep some semblance of the stars and stripes alive in my daily work.

I'm good at what I do, I follow the chain of command, I don't question the Brass when they give orders, and I keep my nose clean. I'm sharp in my uniform, and respectful to those appointed over me. So, being all upstanding and lauding myself, I decide to go a step higher, to where people really exemplify those qualities of duty, discipline and dedication.

I went for Honor Guard. And guess what? I made it. I just got issued my Ceremonials today, and here's the crux.

The honor guard troupe as a whole is a somewhat honorable entity. They get the job done with minimal mistakes, and I can see the majority are there to serve their country, not to make their EPR's look good by saying, 'Oooh, look! I'm honor Guard! Promote me!'.

But then there are two, and a hesitant third person thrown in there of which I cannot justify their existence in this unit. What a person does off time is their business, and I will never take that into account when judging someone for professionalism. But when you're at Practice, or on a detail, and you pop Racist jokes or make fun of the JROTC whenever they make a mistake (In a high visibility detail no less!) and bring that individual to tears....and then don't have the cojones to man up an make it right....that irks me.

That's one example. Same day, on the ride back to the HG shack, Member #2 pops out racist jokes in the car. People laugh, cut up and have fun, but I'm sitting in the back wondering what I've got myself into. We're in uniform, displaying our colors proud and we're.....committing crimes? Racism is illegal. All it takes is one person to speak up and whomever spoke can be severely punished. Why do that in uniform? Why not have even a small bit of respect?

Thirdly, same person. Member #2 is giving me my Ceremonial Uniform. Bit by bit. Every time something doesn't fit, she insults me. "Too small, you're fat. Your head is F**kin' huge! Don't lie to me about your headsize, I knew you were a 7 and not a 7 3/8!"

Etc etc. Typically, such ribbing isn't an issue. But her inflection, her earlier statements, and her general level of 'Pissed off-ness' was high. She deliberately attacked me in that room, but I figured I'd come ask a second opinion before I brought it up farther.

Now, all these issues have brought me to an unfortunate choice. Do I continue HG, and try to improve what I see as wrong and unprofessional? Or do I simply float along the tide and keep my mouth shut?

Or, as a last resort and before I invest money and have to pay back 800 or so dollars in uniform fees, do I quit and simply back out?

I loathe unprofessionalism, and I think that by quitting I would be sending a powerful message to the rest of the troupe, and I would be unafraid to stand in front of the formation and speak of why I'm doing so. I have absolutely no issue with confrontation. I've become quite good at it.

Just....Goddamn. I want to find a unit that I can actually feel like I'm military. I want to feel like there's still people in the military that believe in honor, respect, and a good dose of Dignity.

Also, to show the level of my frustration with #2 today.....This was the closest I've -ever- been to slappin' a bitch who's unarmed and unviolent. She's confrontational, stupid, bitchy (To be redundant), arrogant, and completely self centered and racist...but she wasn't violent. And I wanted to beat her down for simply being stupid. Le sigh.


I dunno. This is just dissatisfaction, and I'm so unsettled by what I'm finding out that I don't know what to say to them in person. So i'm saying it here, where I can get more opinions before I make a decision.

 

[Boo]

Wow... sounds like your in a tight spot there. I can see why you would be frustrated by it. But also remember that these are humans, they all have flaws, some more than others. I don't mean that it justify their behaviour, not at all, but at places where I have worked, gone to school etc, there has always been a certain jargon (sp?), where people might have been using profanities, racist/sexist jokes and such because everyone else has done it at that place, I have chosen not to do so and some times questioned them when, for example, they are popping a crude racist joke. This can put them off, because many times they do not realize it themself that they are actually being racist and such, they just go with the flow.

But because this is happening in the military I don't really know if the situations I've been in is even remotely comparable. I agree with you that if you are in the HG, you should act accordingly and be professional because you are representing your country. The uniform should not be worn just to for your own sake to parade around and show it people and be all high and mighty.

Sounds like that woman has some sort of role going where she is being a d**che towards everyone, is she a senoir officer or something? Or is she just a d**che against you? As I lack a military perspective I can't really relate to that given situation.

What would happen if you confront named persons? If they are just a small number of the unit, maybe there are others who feel the same way as you?

I'm sorry that I can't give you any real advice, as I do not know how the military work.

 

[ChaosJedi666]

Sounds similar to my problem earlier. Only I've decided to cut and run, and have applied for the NZ Army. Just waitin' to hear back...COngratulations, by the way. I agree with you though, that pulling that crap whilst in uniform is really bad. Esp as you're representing you're in another country representing the US. You want to set a good example. I would have to say that for the amount of time spent getting in, training, etc, it would probably be best for you to see it through. As for a Unit to feel like you're in the military, I've heard that the Marines (or commandos, SAS, what-have-you) are fairly good. It would really depend on you're rank before confronting anyone. You're best option there would be to just say something in passing to you're CO. Confrontation, I think, would only work if you singled out the joker and told *asked* him to tone it down a bit. Lastly, if someone had a go at me about not getting clothes to fit right, etc, I probably would've had a go at them. Lol, but I have some small temper issues It also comes down to, if say you cut you're losses and ran, what would you do? Thats what generally keeps me in jobs. Hope it helps, hope you can understand what I mean by all thiso.o...

BTW, forgive my ignorance, but what is a JROTC, and what does an Honor Guard do?

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Hmm an interesting situation.

The first instance, the offensive jokes whilst in uniform. Now do you mean they are doing this in front of other people, loudly so everyone can hear? Or is it a joke between themselves? If it is the latter then if I am honest there is no harm joking amongst themselves, yes racist jokes can me nasty, but then again I have heard some people say racist jokes against their own race as a laugh. Not being nasty, just messing around. I can appreciate it might not be your idea of fun, a joke between friends should not be something you really need to get upset about.

On the other hand if they are shouting these jokes out, especially when on duty etc, then yes I fully agree that is an issue. Private jokes are one thing, however the image you then present to others / the public is another. I will get back how to approach it later.

Now, as for the bitch with the smart mouth. She’s a bully plain and simple. She knows your new, you’re unsure and she’s seeing what you will take. Met a fair few of them in my time. Now unless she is senior to you, it is really important that you do not take any crap. If you do it is invitation to for her give more. She insults you, take the piss out of her. Try really hard to show here that she is not upsetting you in anyway. If she’s argues with you, stand your ground. It will either get to the point where she realise your are more trouble that it is worth etc.

Personally I would not quit. That would be a last resort, purely because I would not let the actions of a few idiots ruin what I wanted to do. So basically when it comes down to it, especially because you said that it is only 1-2 people, not all the Honour Guard I would:

Stand up / speak back to the bitch. Let her know you don’t take crap – but DO NOT get angry / upset. Calm and collected, showing her words do not get to you works best.
If the behaviour is in public report it to your commanding officer. If you try and tell them not to do it, and they are confrontational, then it could make them do it all the more. If they are doing it in public then anyone could have reported the,

Or

If you don’t like reporting, spend your time getting on with the rest of the group. Integrating yourself as part of the group gives you much greater standing to implement changes. Takes longer, but could have a better result long term.

Hope that helps.

 

[Johnny B]

But when you're at Practice, or on a detail, and you pop Racist jokes or make fun of the JROTC whenever they make a mistake (In a high visibility detail no less!) and bring that individual to tears....and then don't have the cojones to man up an make it right....that irks me.

He's a bully; a small man who must take advantage of such opportunities to feel self-worth. Being a bully when your target can fight back is one thing, but being a bully when your target is forbidden to fight back due to rank is simple cowardice. If you pull him up about it though, just be prepared to go all the way; nothing gets a bully riled up like shame. You also risk the group turning against you if they decide to back Member no.1 and Miss Racist-douche.

We're in uniform, displaying our colors proud and we're.....committing crimes? Racism is illegal.

Racism itself isn't illegal, just inciting racial hatred (I think). That's surely not the point though. As you say, anything done in uniform is a reflection on who the uniform represents. How much people care about that is also part of it. If he were just an ordinary bod, then maybe it wouldn't be so bad, but an Honour Guard? Also, he is hardly providing much of an example to the Junior Cadets...

I want to feel like there's still people in the military that believe in honor, respect, and a good dose of Dignity.

I'm sure there are, but there's always been a lot more who are callous brutes imo. All the soldiers I've met have been the worst sort of meathead, racist moron imaginable (apart from you, although I haven't actually met you ). I regularly hear about them and their exploits in Iraq/Afghanistan from an army-worshipping geek in my group down the pub, and frankly it doesn't paint a good picture.

Do I continue HG, and try to improve what I see as wrong and unprofessional? Or do I simply float along the tide and keep my mouth shut?

I've never been one for floating along with the tide, but then again I'd make an awful soldier for just that reason.
If you quit, then there will be one less person in the Honour Guard who believes in honour, respect and dignity. Alternatively, if you do quit then make sure its well known why, otherwise it solves nothing and is just a step backwards for you.

 

[Onikaigo]

BTW, forgive my ignorance, but what is a JROTC, and what does an Honor Guard do?

JROTC Is the Junior Reserve Officer Training Core. Basically, a way for young pre-highschool (Or prep school for you europeans) to get a taste of military life, heirarchy, etc. It's like having a softer side of the military for kids.

Honor Guard is the ceremonial unit of the military. They perform all drills and ceremonies, from Drill competitions to Retreat, to Funerals, promotions/Change of Command, retirements....the list goes on a long way. We're the public face of the Air Force. Also, the Air Force Honor Guard Drill team was shown on the last Wrestlemania, try that on for size.

Anyways.

What would happen if you confront named persons? If they are just a small number of the unit, maybe there are others who feel the same way as you?

I don't know, that's the thing. I quite believe she'd pull rank on me (She's an E-4, I'm an E-3) and even though it's even more douche-ish to pull rank at such a -low- rank, it's still technically legal. If she orders me to do something related to work, I'm honor/oathbound to perform what she tells me. If it's justifiable of course.

She'd either 1)Fight back, make a scene, and I really don't know what would happen after that.
2)back down and talk shit behind my back, and never let me alone.

I don't want either of those, really.

The first instance, the offensive jokes whilst in uniform. Now do you mean they are doing this in front of other people, loudly so everyone can hear? Or is it a joke between themselves?

Both. I've heard racist jokes while in the van going to/from the Detail Site, and also in public arenas -while still in Uniform-. That's unacceptable.

...a joke between friends should not be something you really need to get upset about.

Wrong. In the military any racial slur can be taken to the ADC (Airmen Defense Counsel) and be pressed into legal charges. It doesn't matter who presses charges. A japanese local walking to the detail, a fellow HG member, a sergeant/Major/Military member who happened to hear it....Anyone can. It's a huge deal in the military, and even having the -chance- of having that sort of shame hit our unit is unacceptable.

Racism itself isn't illegal, just inciting racial hatred (I think).

Not in the Military! US UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) has several articles addressing racist issues. Anyone who takes offense at anything racist can report it at their discretion, and legal action -will- follow. There are no effective defenses, and any action taken by the Paralegals will be on your record until 3/4's of the way through your career. It's the military life.



Anyways, moving on.

After talking to a Chaplain, and another member on Honor Guard who joined the same time as me, I've decided to keep fighting and bring this up to my NCOIC, and if he doesn't/isn't willing to make changes I can bring it to the OIC. (NCOIC= Non-commisioned Officer In Charge, OIC=Officer in Charge)

We'll see what happens, eh? I'm going to take a day or two and make sure I know what I want to say, and how I want to say it, and then talk to my Chain and see what falls out of this.

Thanks fellas.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Well glad to hear you’ve made a decision

In regards to the joke thing, perhaps it is different in the USAF. A lot of places I know have silly jokes that a bit racist, with most people laughing and not taking it personally, but then I suppose it depends on how offensive the joke is.

If however it is that serious, and it even just a joke would bring a slur on your unit I can understand your concern.

I do however stand by the point that you need to stand up to that woman, not doing so could make things more difficult for you in the long run.

Good luck and make sure you let us know how it turns out.

 

[Johnny B]

Anyone who takes offense at anything racist can report it at their discretion, and legal action -will- follow. There are no effective defenses, and any action taken by the Paralegals will be on your record until 3/4's of the way through your career. It's the military life.

Well, in that case things are a little more clear cut.

After talking to a Chaplain, and another member on Honor Guard who joined the same time as me, I've decided to keep fighting and bring this up to my NCOIC, and if he doesn't/isn't willing to make changes I can bring it to the OIC.

 

[Skorne]

Hey Oni... it's been a while since I have posted on this board but reading this made me want to put my 2 cents in.

You are looking for professionalism and have expectations about the level of professionalism in your new unit.. understandable, admirable. I just caution you on the path that you take in making a change. You do not want to be ostracized from your unit, worst thing you could do IMO. These are the guys that you have watching your back.
I served in the 1st BN 4th MAR 1st MARDIV. I know what the life is like. I can tell you that the kind of professionalism (IN MY EXPERIENCE) you are looking for is found in the Marine Corps. I have been attached to Army units and been with Navy units. I have had friends in the Air Force. We compare notes and it comes out that in general, Marines take the kinds of things you mention seriously. God, Country, Corps, Apple Pie.
Lead from the front. Set the bar high. Do not participate in things that you consider unacceptable. But be careful when it comes to taking it up the chain. Be sure you know which side of the fence the players are on before you start the game. Or you will be screwing yourself hard.
As for the female...suck it up. Show no fear, no weakness. Perform at an outstanding level. Her lack of discipline will most likely show in her performance. Your superior performance will be noticed. Do not get a rep as a whiner, you won't go very far.

My 2 cents. In the end, do what your gut tells you. It will be the right thing for you.