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Vampire Lords . . . What Happened?

Vipoid

Necromancer
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
874
#1
So, having been out of the game for a few years now, I decided to give it another look. I started with my favourite HQs - the one that made me want to play VCs in the first place - the Vampire Lords themselves.

Well, what happened to them? :o

They used to be these monster-HQs that were extremely customisation and among the most dangerous in the game - combinging strong casting with excellent melee, backed up by Vampire Powers. Now all I see is a mediocre melee unit with weak casting ability and defensive stats barely better than a standard backline wizard.

Also, I notice that regular Vampires are mysteriously absent. Did GW actually scrap Vampire Lords and then just gave regular vampires the fancier title? It's certainly hard to imagine where a regular vampire could realistically fit in. It seems like you can't really come down much from the Vampire Lord statline without just being a regular Necromancer.

And then there's the customisation. Look, I get that magic weapons and such were all scrapped in favour of artefacts. Fine. But what about Vampire Powers? This was one of their most defining features and it's been removed entirely in favour of . . . nothing.

I'm sorry if this is a bit of a rant, but I've just come back to see that the reason I started my army has been nuked from orbit.

Please tell me I'm missing something. And if I'm not, how do you use Vampire Lords now? Even if you ignore the beasts they once were, they seem insanely fragile for melee lords. If I make one my general, do I basically have to choose between using him and having him survive the game?
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2017
Messages
507
#2
Hi, I've saluted you also in your welcome post, but here we are.

THe first thing i want to clarify (regarding your doubts about vampires and character customisation) is: have you taken a look at the "Legions of Nagash" battletome?

That's actually the tome you need to understand the full potential of the classic undead army.
Vampires and necromancers get their own spell selections, then you have a choice between various Legions and you can even pick the old bloodlines.

In cc a vampire can still be a dangerous enemy (depending on the equipment and the abilities' selection), much more dangerous than the typical AoS caster, but it's no more the old melee monster of WHFB... there are too many things that are much more brutal. It's main role is to support and buff our units, be them hordes of elite groups (a mounted Vampire Lord alongside a black knights unit can trample across the battlefield, shredding to pieces almost everything).

the army rotates mostly around "summonable" units, and the army is supported by Gravesites... points of necromantic power that let you heal wounded models and also summon back dead models, if not entire units (for free).
 

Vipoid

Necromancer
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
874
#3
Hi, I've saluted you also in your welcome post, but here we are.

THe first thing i want to clarify (regarding your doubts about vampires and character customisation) is: have you taken a look at the "Legions of Nagash" battletome?
I have.

That's actually the tome you need to understand the full potential of the classic undead army.
Vampires and necromancers get their own spell selections, then you have a choice between various Legions and you can even pick the old bloodlines.
But, unless I'm mistaken, the only way to get those bloodline powers is by having an army comprised of nothing but vampires. If I want a 'normal' Vampire Counts army with skeletons and such, then apparently all my Vampires have their bloodlines surgically removed before the game starts. o_o

What's more, even if I go this route, there's no customising the bloodlines between individual vampires. I can't, for example, have a Necromatic-focused Vampire and a Warrior-Vampire in the same army.

In cc a vampire can still be a dangerous enemy (depending on the equipment and the abilities' selection), much more dangerous than the typical AoS caster, but it's no more the old melee monster of WHFB... there are too many things that are much more brutal. It's main role is to support and buff our units, be them hordes of elite groups (a mounted Vampire Lord alongside a black knights unit can trample across the battlefield, shredding to pieces almost everything).
The underlined section was my main point. Vampire Lords have gone from being among the most dangerous HQs in the game to being ' bit better in combat than backline casters. At the end of the day they're now just glorified Necromancers with basically no customisation. As someone who got into the game for HQs that were both very strong and highly customisable, can you see why I'd find this more than a little disheartening?

Even more depressingly, the Ghoul King I painstakingly converted to have wings is now entirely worthless as that option has been removed altogether.

the army rotates mostly around "summonable" units, and the army is supported by Gravesites... points of necromantic power that let you heal wounded models and also summon back dead models, if not entire units (for free).
I intend to give it a try, but it's already looking like a game wherein all the good rules are reserved for Special Characters and 'centrepiece' models. e.g. A Ghoul King on foot is arbitrarily worse at magic and summoning than a Ghoul King who happens to be sat on a mount. And apparently a Vampire Lord needs to be riding a zombie dragon in order to acquire a rare and powerful artefact known as 'a shield'.
 
Joined
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Messages
507
#4
But, unless I'm mistaken, the only way to get those bloodline powers is by having an army comprised of nothing but vampires. If I want a 'normal' Vampire Counts army with skeletons and such, then apparently all my Vampires have their bloodlines surgically removed before the game starts. o_o

What's more, even if I go this route, there's no customising the bloodlines between individual vampires. I can't, for example, have a Necromatic-focused Vampire and a Warrior-Vampire in the same army.
well, thechnically the allegiance is Soulblight, not merely vampire, so you can have an army with VL, bloodknights, bat swarms, coven throne...
And you can, indeed, insert skeletons in it (using the allies slot), but they won't be the main force of your army.
But you are right that you cannot use blood lines if you are not using the Soulblight allegiance.
It's perfect? no, but it's an improvement that we lacked before LoN.

You are also right that you cannot mix bloodlines in the same army, however you can still customize your vamps.
want a melee lord? give him the command trait of +1 Attacks and the artefact that lets you heal wounds when you wound enemy models, and Translocation as spell, to spam mortal wounds and heal yourself.
And that's if you want to play soulblight allegiance. If you stick with one of the Legions you can play a really great number of variants.

Vampire Lords have gone from being among the most dangerous HQs in the game to being ' bit better in combat than backline casters. At the end of the day they're now just glorified Necromancers with basically no customisation. As someone who got into the game for HQs that were both very strong and highly customisable, can you see why I'd find this more than a little disheartening?
Well, as said, a vampire can still be a frightening hero, but gone are the days of Blender Lords, that face whole units by themselves and wipe the battlefield.
AoS is no more a game of single, strong heroes (barring few notable exceptions, as Nagash himself), but a game of synergies, where a buffed unit will always prevail. To send an unsupported hero into the fray, is almost always a bad idea, no matter how strong it is.
In a game agains Ironjawz, Goddrakk (a melee brute mounted on a sort of dragon, with 16 wounds and a buffed save at 2+ and FNP at 6+) charged my line, slaughtering in the first turn my terrorgheist.
I retaliate with 40 skellies, buffed by my VL. 201 Attacks = killed goddrakk.
 
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Vipoid

Necromancer
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
874
#5
well, thechnically the allegiance is Soulblight, not merely vampire, so you can have an army with VL, bloodknights, bat swarms, coven throne...
And you can, indeed, insert skeletons in it (using the allies slot), but they won't be the main force of your army.
The prospect of having to ally in my own army is something of an odd one.

But you are right that you cannot use blood lines if you are not using the Soulblight allegiance.
It's perfect? no, but it's an improvement that we lacked before LoN.
I guess I'm judging it by the standards of the old Vampire Counts.

If we're setting the bar at first edition Age of Sigmar, then I can see how this would be a great improvement. ;)

You are also right that you cannot mix bloodlines in the same army, however you can still customize your vamps.
want a melee lord? give him the command trait of +1 Attacks and the artefact that lets you heal wounds when you wound enemy models, and Translocation as spell, to spam mortal wounds and heal yourself.
What if you want a Lord who can cast more than one spell per turn? Is there any way to do that?

Although, in any event, I don't believe I have anywhere near enough Soulblight models to field an army of that type. I've never had much fondness for cavalry, so I don't own any Blood Knights, and I've not got any Vargheists either (I foolishly assembled them into Crypt Horrors instead, lacking the foresight to know that GW would split those off into a separate faction down the line).

I do have a question relating to customisation, though. Do you happen to know whether the Deathforged Chain or the Terrorgheist Mantle (both from the Grand Host of Nagash) are any good? I like regeneration abilities, so the Chain is of interest to me, but I don't know how worthwhile it is. The Terrorgheist Mantle just seemed quite fun, and about the only way to get a shooting attack on a vampire outside of spells.

Well, as said, a vampire can still be a frightening hero, but gone are the days of Blender Lords, that face whole units by themselves and wipe the battlefield.
AoS is no more a game of single, strong heroes (barring few notable exceptions, as Nagash himself), but a game of synergies, where a buffed unit will always prevail. To send an unsupported hero into the fray, is almost always a bad idea, no matter how strong it is.
In a game agains Ironjawz, Goddrakk (a melee brute mounted on a sort of dragon, with 16 wounds and a buffed save at 2+ and FNP at 6+) charged my line, slaughtering in the first turn my terrorgheist.
I retaliate with 40 skellies, buffed by my VL. 201 Attacks = killed goddrakk.
To be honest, I'm getting a little perplexed about the role of Vampire Lords. You say that they're decent melee characters, but you also say that sending an unsupported hero into the fray is a bad idea. Given that Vampire Lords are seemingly designed to support other units, rather than themselves, how exactly do you use them in melee? (I apologise if I'm just being thick here. Believe it or not, I used to be quite good at VC/WHFB tactics, but the game and army are just so different to the one I got used to.)

Also, I don't want to impose on you (since you've already been kind enough to spend a lot of time discussing stuff with me), but if you happen to have the time I've had a go at making a list and I'd really love to get some feedback on it:

First Attempt at an AoS List - Carpe Noctem
 
Joined
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Messages
507
#6
What if you want a Lord who can cast more than one spell per turn? Is there any way to do that?
The battalion "Legions of Sacrament" let the wizards cast an additional spell, but those wizards are necromancers.
If you're fielding Prince Vhordrai you can use his command ability to have a VL cast an additional spell

both are pretty situational, and I don't recall other things.

I do have a question relating to customisation, though. Do you happen to know whether the Deathforged Chain or the Terrorgheist Mantle (both from the Grand Host of Nagash) are any good? I like regeneration abilities, so the Chain is of interest to me, but I don't know how worthwhile it is. The Terrorgheist Mantle just seemed quite fun, and about the only way to get a shooting attack on a vampire outside of spells.
I've no experience with the chain, but the mantle can be pretty good, especially if you combine it with something that reduces the bravery of the target unit (for example, the Overwhelming Dread spell - Deathmages… which could be pretty killer if you manage to kick in the 9 to activate the Locus of Shyish)
 
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Joined
Jan 1, 2017
Messages
507
#8
To be honest, I'm getting a little perplexed about the role of Vampire Lords. You say that they're decent melee characters, but you also say that sending an unsupported hero into the fray is a bad idea. Given that Vampire Lords are seemingly designed to support other units, rather than themselves, how exactly do you use them in melee? (I apologise if I'm just being thick here. Believe it or not, I used to be quite good at VC/WHFB tactics, but the game and army are just so different to the one I got used to.)
I believe you, but different games require different tactics. ;)
Now, how can we exploit the melee abilities of a VL, without putting our vampire too much at risk?
I've got a series of examples.

1) a sort of old deathstar. You have a VL on nightmare that goes alongside a unit of 15 black knights. It's a fast train of doom, and you usually dictate the charges. Send the BK against the main target, with full buffs by the VL, and send the VL against a secondary nearby target. You will attack firstly with the BK, possibly killing or severely crilìppling the target. At this point the enemy will attack the VL, but will not be able to kill it (because it's weak, or bacause you attacked in a point to minimize the pile-in). At that point, it will be the VL turn to retaliate, killing some models and healing in the process.

2) your VL afoot is accompanying a large unit of skeletons, that surrounds him so he cannot be directly charged. A buffed unit charges you, cause the enemy must deal with your block. Pick the casualties in a way that you leave room to your vampire to pile in and fight after the enemy has completed the attack routine.

3) your VL goes alongside a large unit that does the main fight. If your unit is destroyed, the enemy should be sufficiently weakened that your VL will have no problems in finishing it.

4) The deadly bait. WIth Legions of Night, give your VL the Chiropractor's cloack, cast Overwhelming Dread, charge the target unit and enjoy while the enemy suffers a mortal wound for each to hit roll of 1-2


Also, I don't want to impose on you (since you've already been kind enough to spend a lot of time discussing stuff with me), but if you happen to have the time I've had a go at making a list and I'd really love to get some feedback on it:

First Attempt at an AoS List - Carpe Noctem
I'll give it a look. Tomorrow. xD
 

Vipoid

Necromancer
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
874
#9
I believe you, but different games require different tactics. ;)
Now, how can we exploit the melee abilities of a VL, without putting our vampire too much at risk?
I've got a series of examples.

1) a sort of old deathstar. You have a VL on nightmare that goes alongside a unit of 15 black knights. It's a fast train of doom, and you usually dictate the charges. Send the BK against the main target, with full buffs by the VL, and send the VL against a secondary nearby target. You will attack firstly with the BK, possibly killing or severely crilìppling the target. At this point the enemy will attack the VL, but will not be able to kill it (because it's weak, or bacause you attacked in a point to minimize the pile-in). At that point, it will be the VL turn to retaliate, killing some models and healing in the process.

2) your VL afoot is accompanying a large unit of skeletons, that surrounds him so he cannot be directly charged. A buffed unit charges you, cause the enemy must deal with your block. Pick the casualties in a way that you leave room to your vampire to pile in and fight after the enemy has completed the attack routine.

3) your VL goes alongside a large unit that does the main fight. If your unit is destroyed, the enemy should be sufficiently weakened that your VL will have no problems in finishing it.

4) The deadly bait. WIth Legions of Night, give your VL the Chiropractor's cloack, cast Overwhelming Dread, charge the target unit and enjoy while the enemy suffers a mortal wound for each to hit roll of 1-2
Okay, I think I understand. I imagine things will start to click more when I manage to get some games in.

Thank you so much for all your help. Chaps like you are why I loved coming on this site. :thumbsup:
 

El Syf

Crypt Horror
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
578
#11
Totally get where your coming from, it’s a massive fall from grace unless you field a vlozd or one of the named vampires. Nobody cares about being charged by a vampire and/or blood knights anymore which I would say have had an even worse age of Sigmar makeover than the vampire lord.
 
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Messages
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#12
Nobody cares about being charged by a vampire and/or blood knights anymore which I would say have had an even worse age of Sigmar makeover than the vampire lord.
Well, Blood Knights still put a world of hurt, especially when buffed (and why they shouldn't?). The sad part is their points cost, which is absurdly high.

But anyway, the point still stands... you cannot look at AoS units with the expectations of WHFB. Many changes happened, and many old, strong units, have been replaced by something else.
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
914
#13
But anyway, the point still stands... you cannot look at AoS units with the expectations of WHFB. Many changes happened, and many old, strong units, have been replaced by something else.
Exactly, which always was in this way and this is good. Funny to expect your units will be unchanged for eternity, usually it's powergamers who weep over the changes in their beloved combination because they always hope it will last forever and they would be able to use the same units over and over. Like all those VC, Chaos and DE gamers wept when the 8th came and their books were no longer the strongest. Funny.
 
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#14
Funny to expect your units will be unchanged for eternity,
To be honest, sometime i understand the frustration.
GW models are not cheap, especially if you look at certain units, and many gamers are students or people that don't have so much money.
I can sympathize with a guy that plays Seraphon, and finally puts his hands upon a costly Stagadon / Engine of the Gods.
He builds the model as a Stegadon, because the Engine was crippled in the 1st Edition… then 2nd edition arrives and the Engine of the Gods is one of the strongest unit of Seraphon.

This happened countless times during the various iterations of WHFB. Old grognards know it well. :cool:
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
914
#15
Well... I would say not very wealthy people use proxies or "count as" models and have no problems with that. And it's so if you are just a gamer. I am mostly a hobbyist and rule changes don't bother me much, I like my models because they are my models I've bought, assembled and painted (or in the process of),not because they have some abstract numbers in a game. GW never did good games enough, but they did good models (well, not always, but most of the time), so if you are looking for a game it's not the best one, but one of the best models. If you think models are costly and this is the only thing that matters apart how they play, it's not your hobby which is about models first and foremost (it's called modelism for a reason). Stegadon and Engine of the gods look gorgeous, especially with a good paintjob. Numbers come and go as you've pointed out, but models remain and in fact all those numbers and rules don't affect them in the slightest.

And yeah, about the prices. Not cheap? if you look at historicals and models Tamiya, Italery or Dragon produce... well, they can not be really compared, maybe, because it's a level GW never achieves... but the prices are entirely different. And most other marks like Warmachine, Malifaux or Infinity mostly offer more expensive models with poorer quality, by the way.
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
2,116
#16
Its a different unit for a different game. AoS has dramatically reduced hero customization, and has almost completely done away with different tiers of the same hero. There is no distinction between 'vampire' and 'vampire lord', nor between 'necromancer' and 'master necromancer', 'aspiring champion' and 'exalted champion', etc.

Additionally, no more joining units makes small heroes considerably more vulnerable, especially to ranged attacks. All that together makes your standard vampire hq considerably less nasty in AoS than in prior editions of WHFB. But I wouldn't call them worse. They've gone from dominating figures to support pieces, but they're very good in that role, with a potent and versatile command ability that works wonders on some of our best units like skeletons or grimghasts, one of the better invocations among smaller heroes, some self healing ability, better melee output than wight kings, good maneuverability options in wings or mount, and casting/dispelling ability. Yeah, only one each per turn, but that's standard now. Only extremely potent spellcasters like mortarchs, slaan, greater daemons, & the like can cast or dispel more than one spell per turn. And while the vampire spell options, whether in their signature spell or spwll lore, aren't quite on the same level as necromancers, they've still got some very solid options, especially given everything else they do.

Old vamp lords couls be masters of everything, with 500+ point price tags to match. AoS vampires are more jack of all trade types, but at a more manageable 150ish points that really is a bargain for all they bring to the table. Again, they're more support than anything else, but they're good support, and if you want a vampire that's also a powerhouse in their own right, thete's always manny, nef, prince voldemort, or a good old vamp lord on zombie dragon. Those are where your dominating vampire lord equivalents went.

And the story is much the same in other factions. Generic lords & heroes have been combined into single profiles that lean much more towards the hero side than the lord side, and mostly focus on support, while the profiles with big, powerful stats and rules are mostly reserved for the heroes with big, powerful models, whether the character in question is massive in their own right or just rides a massive steed.

Non-dragon-riding vampires aren't big models, so they don't get big statlines, but again that doesn't make them bad. They're actually quite effective and popular, to the point that even nighthaunt armies sometimes take them as allies, despite the fact that they lose several rules when fielded that way (no access to vamp spell lore, no deathless minions, basically nothing but what's on their warscroll).

The fact that they're still good, or that vamp lords on zombie dragons are good for what may be the first time, may not do much to relieve your disappointment, as they really don't function in at all the same way they used to, and there's not much reason to run multiples of them in a list the way in the past you might have included both a vampire lord and a few lesser vampire heroes, AND in particular most of the fun customization options are gone. But still, the situation isn't all bad, and I do recommend trying them out in a few games before writing them or the game off. Just remember that they're support pieces first and foremost, empowering the dead around them while flitting from shadow to shadow, the aristocracy of the night rather than a blunt hammer. Avoid los where possible, and try not to comit them to combat directly unless the situation is either desperate or you've already won.
 

El Syf

Crypt Horror
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
578
#17
Exactly, which always was in this way and this is good. Funny to expect your units will be unchanged for eternity, usually it's powergamers who weep over the changes in their beloved combination because they always hope it will last forever and they would be able to use the same units over and over. Like all those VC, Chaos and DE gamers wept when the 8th came and their books were no longer the strongest. Funny.
I’m in no way a power gamer, but I will admit there was something very satisfying about a fully tooled up Vampire Lord charging into combat in oldhammer. In Aos I try to keep them out of combat where possible as they tend to die too quickly.
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
914
#18
Well, I certainly agree, that was fun in its own right, sure. I just don't weep over the changes and don't cry either. Yes, vampires lost some potential but otherwise they lost it in the 8th as well, because the real power belonged to them in the 7th. And so be it.
 
Joined
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Messages
507
#19
Well, I certainly agree, that was fun in its own right, sure. I just don't weep over the changes and don't cry either. Yes, vampires lost some potential but otherwise they lost it in the 8th as well, because the real power belonged to them in the 7th. And so be it.
Relly?
My experience with 7th is very limited, and includes just Tomb Kings, Dwarfs, Lizardmen and Ogre.
VL in 8th were pretty powerful, were they even stronger in 7th?
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
2,116
#20
They were ab solutely stronger in 7th, though only just at their release. People don't remember it so much, because the vampire count reign in 7th edition only lasted a few months before daemons were released and blew up the entire meta /even harder/, but absolutely nothing that came out before it could compete with the 7e VC list. I say list, not army book, because there was only one list, because internal balance was not good. Ghouls were the obvious best core, caster specialist vamps were the obvious best lores/generals, bunkered behind a huge block of grave guard with the drakenhoff bsb. The vamp lord's melee stats don't even go to waste, since he takes a crown that lets those grave guard fight with his weapon skill.

So, huge GG block, vamp lord & other casters bunkered immediately behind, small units of ghouls to either flank that the vamp lord bloats up to huge tar pits by the time they reach melee, and just nothing can deal with the attrition game there. And yeah, you could run other stuff in theory, but any change made the list obviously worse.

So yeah, nothing could compete with it, or rather nothing could until daemons, which again demolished everything even harder, and then the elf books that came after had to be built to fight that, and power creep utterly demolished that game. 7e had a great core ruleset, but army book design and balance was just awful. Even if demons and ever book after hadn't happened, the vamp list was too strong for earlier books to compete with, and was no fun to play with or write lists for because, again, it was full of obvious choices.

I didn't like 8e's core rules as much as 7e, but the army book design was overall a lot better, and the vamp count book was among the best of the bunch. Master necros came back and were actually a viable alternative to vamp lords for army general, which emphasized melee a lot more. You could run everything from huge block infantry recursion to fast elite cavalry hammers and everything in between, neat new centerpiece models including the mortis engine were good and cool and fun. Bloodlines were missed, sure, but there were a bunch of viable options leading to lists that played meaningfully differently, and the army as a whole was neither significantly above nor below par in an edition that had surprisingly good inter-faction balance by GW standards.

Such a shame that, by the time 8e was released, apparently GW had already committed to destroying the setting and retiring the game. Oh, well.

AoS is... well, it's not a great game, but I do think it's pretty good. Not as good as WHFB was imo, though I do think 2e is a big step up from 1.5 (ie 1e with generals handbook rules), which was a big step up from 1e, so I do think they're moving in a good direction. And the current undead rules are very nice. Again, a good variety of distinct builds and options, and overall balance that puts us happily in the middle, more or less. Internal balance isn't as good as 8e, zombies are pretty terrible, wight kings are bad, black knights are underwhelming, etc. But some units that I always wanted to love and were always bad in the past are actually pretty decent now (eg vamp lord on zombie dragon). The various legions of nagash are mostly good and have some fun variety between them, the ghoul and ghost side armies are pretty decent as well. There are more good, or at least reasonably playable units than otherwise. And I do like that most units throughout the game as a whole, undead or otherwise, have special rules unique to that unit to convey their unique fluff, rather than relying on a handful of generic special rules shared across the game, though that's certainly a subjective design preference and I know some other players prefer the opposite.
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
914
#21
VL in 8th were pretty powerful, were they even stronger in 7th?
yeah, it was Herohammer like AoS initially and vampires rocked. In the 8th - not so much already, also due to the large numbers of models tendency and more powerful magic. The 7th was very fun in many ways, including an ability for Chaos to have only, I believe, 7 models for 1500 pts :D
 
Joined
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#22
The 7th was very fun in many ways,
Yeah, I remember a couple of fun games, when I was able to rain down a swarm of Comet of Casandora with a certain lizardmen build… xD
But i digress.
I must say that i liked more the magic system of 7th... the 8th was unbalanced from this pov.
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
914
#23
Yeah, in the 8th the magic was the worst enemy, especially if cast with irresistible force. Your lovely vampire lord could go down in one go with just one spell.
 

Vipoid

Necromancer
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
874
#24
Exactly, which always was in this way and this is good. Funny to expect your units will be unchanged for eternity, usually it's powergamers who weep over the changes in their beloved combination because they always hope it will last forever and they would be able to use the same units over and over. Like all those VC, Chaos and DE gamers wept when the 8th came and their books were no longer the strongest. Funny.
My apologies for expecting the army I spent a few hundred pounds on to remain in existence. What a foolish powergamer I must be.

If you're the calibre of person AoS is catering to, then clearly I'm better off steering well clear of it.
 
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