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varghulf or wraiths

which is better in 1k games

  • varghulf

    Votes: 26 61.9%
  • wraiths

    Votes: 16 38.1%

  • Total voters
    42
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
46
#1
what is your opinion the best rare choice for 1k games, i think black coach and blood knights are too expensive. so that leaves varghulf and wraiths.

which is better in your opinion and please explain why

cheers :mrgreen:
 

chris_havoc

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
1,108
#2
I vote Varghulf because the guy is really tough even if you ignore the regen save. He's also got hatred and 5 attacks. His only problem is that he's one US short of 5 :(
 

N1AK

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Apr 21, 2008
Messages
1,252
#3
I'd be tempted to say the Black Coach is best at 1k (less things that can instakill it).

But of the two you are asking about it is very hard to pick a definitive choice:

Wraiths: The Banshees scream, quantity of high strength attacks and invunerability to a large proportion of attacks are all very useful abilities. The cost is that magic, magical attacks and magic items are becoming more common and against certain armies Wraiths can be marginalised and big points sinks.

Varghulfs: Don't have the damage potential of Wraiths or the Banshees scream. However with the high toughness and Regen they are resilient and don't have to fear magical weapons.

The Varghulf seems to be the more consistent from an all comers perspective (unless your army is low magic / low in Daemons/Wood Elves), where as the Wraiths are better against most armies but much worse against a few armies.
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#4
They're both really good choices. I'd say the Wraiths with Banshee win out because skirmishers are always good to have in an army, and the Varghulf is pretty luck dependent; if you're good at rolling 4+ regeneration saves, then it does wonders... if you're me, then it'll die to a cannon shot on turn one like a Black Coach!
 

Grish

Liche
True Blood
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
5,444
#5
Agreed with Wraiths, although if the enemy is daemons or gets hit with a hail of doom arrow, then they can blow up.

Skirmishers are excellent, the amount of attacks wraiths generate as well as moving through any terrain is really a good compliment for our army. They also move very quickly at M6, and a 360 charge arc is great. The banshee scream can be very effective at this level as well, but generally I prefer just to stick with the combat effectiveness of 3 or 4 wraiths at this level.
 

N1AK

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Apr 21, 2008
Messages
1,252
#6
I'll only field Wraiths with a Banshee now. People have got wise to the need for magical attacks, and the existence of both Daemon and Tree Spirit armies means that Wraiths can spend the entire game on the defencesive. At least the Banshee allows the unit to have some effect against these armies.
 

Grish

Liche
True Blood
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
5,444
#7
Wraiths are very rock-paper-scissor units. Banshees are great against some armies, terrible against others. Wraiths being used for combat are great against others. It really depends on the armies in your area... Daemons are very uncommon here, so the combat ability of wraiths is strong. Dwarves are very common here, so the banshee loses her effectiveness.

No one unit is better than another in all situations, and thats exactly how it should be.
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#8
Wraiths are not difficult to keep from being whacked by Daemons or Forest Spirits though. I'm sure many got lazy when they first started using Wraiths, just pushing them out front unconcerned about enemy attacks. But you can keep them behind lines, between units, in cover and still get a good scream out of them.
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
Staff member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
27,916
#9
I voted Vargulf, simply because at lower point games there are not many units that can deal with him and his regen, he can hold a flank by himself and pretty much works against every army - I find wraiths work much better in bigger groups myself, that way they have enough wounds in case they get hit with magic missiles etc.
 

Fodderboy

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
2,243
#10
I vote wraiths w/ banshee.

1 - I have converted some wraiths (haven't done the big V yet)
2 - more models = less eggs in one basket
3 - etheral - who doesn't love etheral?
4 - instagib - I think the dice gods like to work me over more than they like to do it to EvC.

Toss in a scream here and there, what's not to love?
 
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
46
#11
i´ve decided to play vc at 1.5k and to take a varghulf

the list can be found in the armylist section

thank for al the input guys and gals:mrgreen:
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Messages
24
#14
Voted for wraiths.

They can be devasting if used rightly (but so can Varghulf.) So this goes to wraith just because i like the models a bit more.

Hard decision overall.
 

Yudas

Skeleton
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
92
#15
Varghulf for me. Its fast, its nice to combo-charge with and with T5 and regen its not easy to take out. I like the Wraiths.. alot against many foes, but their reliance on non-magical opponents just makes them too fragile against some armies.
 
Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
11
#16
i vote for varghulf,

he is a vampire, so can march, and take other units with him..
for a 1k army (that whats this topic is about), i can have a varghulf and a unit of direwolfs, rushing at 16 - 18" in 1 turn, so with just over 215 pts spend, i got 1 flank totally covered plus able to flank charge, or take out war machines and rearcharge..

though wraiths certainly are good, they lack the speed (though if you take black knights, it doesnt matter).

therefor, i guess it really depends on your other units.. i must say though that the extra rules for varghulf. vampire, regen, terror do tip the balance in his favour.. so my vote goes to var
 

Skaramak von Carstein

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
1,636
#17
I agree that it is a tough one. I would say (based on local opponents) that I would go with the Varghulf, but it is a close call. We have a couple of Wood Elf players with lots of dryads, and TK & Chaos so most are immune to psychology.

Against other opponents (O&G ans DE) the banshee/wraith combo works, but so does the big V.
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
100
#18
uhm unless i read it wrong the scream does work against immune to pysch units.

anyway i vote the big V, he's cool, he's a big monster unit that we have always wanted and he useful to tying and eating small units of skirmishers and light cav
 
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
42
#19
Wait, the Varghulf doesn't count as US 5?!

I could have sworn it did...I recall someone at the store using it to negate ranks at least once...
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#21
Nialag said:
Wait, the Varghulf doesn't count as US 5?!

I could have sworn it did...I recall someone at the store using it to negate ranks at least once...
I find that many people who game at stores (No slur, I occasinally game in store) aren't too keen on actually reading the rules. US4, for certain :)
 
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
42
#22
Guess that guy was wrong then...and yeah, it's a tremendous setback for me, I was planning to use him as a flanker. :-/

It's even more irritating when you compare it to the DE Hydra, which has pretty much the same stats, same abilities, has a breath weapons, AND is US5...all for the same amount of points. Argh.
 
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
28
#23
the biggest drawback to me of a Varghulf is that every time mine loses a combat, he blows up. With three wraiths you get 2 extra wounds, and after losing a combat, you might still be able to IoN him back to two models and win the next round. The Varghulf is just gone. That being said, I like them both for different things and I play with both in my 2k+ armies (I haven't bought a black coach yet)
 

Reincus

Necromancer
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
832
#24
You can regen save the crumbling wounds. He doesn't blow up often unless you are just using him wrong or positioning him wrong so he gets charged by something nasty.

This is an old discussion though. I don't like small groups of wraiths. If it's not at least 5 models big, I'll take a varg. They are just too fragile against magic missle or hail of doom arrow in small units.
 

Bigpig

Wight King
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
414
#25
Nialag said:
It's even more irritating when you compare it to the DE Hydra, which has pretty much the same stats, same abilities, has a breath weapons, AND is US5...all for the same amount of points. Argh.
Hydra does come with "crew" though. Maybe thats what makes them a higher US? You should model your 'gulf with two zombies prodding it forward with the pitchforks and say its US 5. See if that gets by :)
 
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