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VC 2400 pts competitive list

Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
6
#1
Hello and nice to meet you! Im a new VC player from Finland and wanted some advice for my list.

I need to decide which models to buy to my army. Some of them I already have. Hope to nobody of my potential finish opponents won´t notice my list here. :D

LORDS & HEROES 830

Vampire lord
- lvl 3, lore of Vampires, black periapt, obsidian lodestone, armour of fortune 425
Master Necromancer
-lvl 4, Lore of Vampires, dispel scroll, talisman of endurance 255
Wight king BSB
- shield, war banner, gw 150

CORE 798

2 x 5 Dire wolves 80
40 x crypt ghouls 400
18 skeletons with musician and standard 110
66 zombies with standard 208

SPECIAL 246

2 x 3 Fell bats 96
5 Hexwraiths 150

RARE 525
3 x 1 Varghulf 525

TOTAL POINTS 2399

Idea is to stuck enemy melee fighters with zombies and ghouls and then flank them with varghulfs. Wight king is with zombies to remove 3 wounds because of combat resolution. Dire wolfes do their job as meat shields against enemy shooters. Mage bunkers has 5+ ward against magic and so on.
 
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
5
#2
I like the list but I have a few suggestions. I feel like the 425 pts on your vamp lord are being wasted. 5+ armor and 5+ ward is very squishy and he isn't really do much more than your necro. You should try the blender lord kit on the vamp lord of: Ogre Blade, Talisman of Preservation, Shield, Heavy armor, Red fury and Quickblood for only 396. The master necromancer is super useful, you could swap the black periapt onto the necro but he would have to drop the dispell scroll. Another problem is your core units don't have champions, so your necro has nothing to hide behind when there are challenges. There is only your vamp lord who needs to be getting combat ress by chopping up rank and file. Also the two fell bats units are easily outclassed by spirit hosts. For rares you can only have two duplicate choices so three varghulfs is a nono :tongue:. You should try a terrorgheist or two. I would highly recommend the vampire counts handbook. I found it super useful https://www.vampirecounts.net/threads/sunny-najo’s-vampire-counts-handbook-2014.27561/
 
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Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
6
#3
Oh damn forgot the rule of 2 duplicate choices. Hope this is fixed when 9th edition comes. I don´t prefer terrorgheist because it sucks in close combat. Have seen it beaten by clanrats or saurus warriors. I replace 1 illegal Varghulg with three flanking vargheists. Fell bats are war machine hunters and just protecting flanks depending on enemy. I try them but will use spirit host instead if they suck. Dispel scroll is must for every army I think, at least according to my gaming experience.

LORDS & HEROES

Vampire lord
- lvl 3, lore of Vampires, heavy armour, shield, quickblood, talisman of preservation, dispel scroll, additional hand weapon 438
Master Necromancer
-lvl 4, Lore of Vampires, black periapt 255
Wight king BSB
- shield, war banner, gw 150

CORE 823

2 x 5 Dire wolves 80
40 x crypt ghouls 400
18 skeletons with full command and lichebone pennant 135
66 zombies with standard 208

SPECIAL 384

2 x 3 Fell bats 96
5 Hexwraiths 150
3 Vargheists 138

RARE 350
2 x 1 Varghulf 350


TOTAL POINTS 2400
 

bigbadbat

Harbinger of Dandelions
True Blood
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
1,244
#4
I'll say to trim the core pts down to as close to minimum as possible (600)
Then you have pts for more toys and other more effective units.
 
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
47
#5
I might try either splitting up the zombies into two groups, or decreasing the initial number and adding more skellies initially, here's why.

You don't have MoTD on your M. Necro, so 18 skellies will get squished in no time, with not much breathing room as far as bringing them back. Also, zombies are really really easy to bring back, and by splitting them into two groups you have a smaller bunker for your M. Necro and you have a bigger group to act as a tar pit.

Just my thoughts.
 
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
86
#6
Light and easy to kill IMO so very weak army.
I`ll be quoting a lot

Vampire lord
- lvl 3, lore of Vampires, heavy armour, shield, quickblood, talisman of preservation, dispel scroll, additional hand weapon 438
1) Lord is soft. Additional HW means, that shield is completely unneccesary. One more save vs.shooting while being in unit is waste of points. Dispell should be carried by expendable character. If it go, you can sacrifice it or dont care. S5 means, that you will be having problems wounding cavalry and other heavilly aromured things. Monsters with high T are also quite save from your lord.

Master Necromancer
-lvl 4, Lore of Vampires, black periapt 255
Hate them personally but this has some sense. It looks, like you have strong magic. On paper. In reality, you can count that 2 spells can get through. 3 if enemy will be generous, unlucky or will be have bad magic. The last one will not going to happend in competitive environement - Expect lev.4 and dispell almost all the time. Buffs to casting roll or dispell roll are likely also.

Wight king BSB
- shield, war banner, gw 150
One point on static CR is not big difference if you dont have strong close combat unit. Again - shield will not be used in combat so still 5+save.

2 x 5 Dire wolves 80
Pretty standard. No comment here.

40 x crypt ghouls 400
No champ? If you put your lord here, he can be easilly challenged and killed. And game over. There is lots of competitive killers around - starting from DE pegasi characters, ending on Demon Princes of many builds. Deathstars or cavalry buses with tooled up melee killers will decimate such unit extremelly quickly. Ghouls have one major drawback - no musican so no swift reforms - it is very likely, that you will not get into combat on your terms, but rather on the terms of your enemy.

18 skeletons with full command and lichebone pennant 135
18 skelletons are not worthy of any spell. Wise opponent will target either your hordes with some mass killing spells(templates, autohits, vortexes etc.) or target your support with magic missiles. Or will concentrate on buff/debuff accordingly to tactical situation. Points on this unit are totally wasted - not mention, that killing 18 skellies with anything tooled for competitive combat is easy.

66 zombies with standard 208
Can be split up into 20-30 strong for more invo profit and more blockers, or be horded. Both options can be good.

2 x 3 Fell bats 96
3x2 and you will be fine. Remember, that thouse points are givaway - almost 100 points will go to the enemy.
Fell bats are war machine hunters
They are not. You can glue the warmachine, but as elves have ASF and rerolls so they inflict kills, Dwarfs have quite tough crew so they likely survive, chaos machines can even break small cavalry units as they are more like chariots -so the only warmachines you can hunt with them are TK/gobbo/bret/skav,emp.

5 Hexwraiths 150
Love them. You have 4lev and dispell. If you will be carefull with enemy magic, they can do many mess. Dont try to move through units - it is waste of time. Try to charge into something that dont have any magic attacks. Things like lone monsters, warmachines, enemy support and fast units - and many monstrous units around. Unfortunately, if i were your opponent, my first mm would be targetted at them. Be prepared to minimize the danger.

3 Vargheists 138
3 makes good warmachine hunter. 6+ could make good melee supporter. I like them, but in this army, they dont fit too well. You dont have to hunt warmachines as you have lots of bodies around. Except if your meta are gunline Emp or Dwarfs.

2 x 1 Varghulf 350
Hmm - only real hard hitter in this list. 10rerollable A with S5. And 8regen W. Not very much. Many armies have flame attacks. Many armies have at least S6 things in the army to hurt them. For that price, morghasts are much better - more W, more A - more can be resurrected.

I don´t prefer terrorgheist because it sucks in close combat.
You use it wrong. His main weapon is scream not close combat. It has 28" effective threat range so any player must take this threat into consideration - espetially if he have large flying monsters or characters that can be screamed to the death in single turn.
 
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Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
6
#7
Thanks for your helpful comments! Seems like my list is too relaxing for the tournament. Let me comment you Asmodeus first.

For me this is not soft: M6, WS7, S5, T5, W3, I 7, A5, LD10 and my build up is not meant in combat. Instead use some useful spells. If he were combat characters he had ofc 1+ armor save and 3+/4+ ward save and some nice melee items.

Casting spells is about how you play. Enemy usually dispels the most threatining spells that would turn the game. I would do that and then spam some invocation and dance macabre that he would not likely dispel in a good situation.

You are right about Wight king and wolves.

I don´t place my general to the crypt ghouls.

Skeletons are for mage and general bunker only. But otherwise I agree with you.

20 zombies is like throwing points away IMO, except protecting flanks maybe.

Fell bats are war machine hunters or at least distrupt shooting for one turn. OFC I don´t charge them to chaos hellcannon or stronger enemy artillery.

Vargheists are good against low armoured targets, but I agree with you.

I can´t use undead legion so no morghasts for my list.

I didn´t choose VC because I want to shoot my opponent, but to fight in melee. Of course some shitty shooting is a nice extra and useful in some situations. That´s why I don´t like terrorgheist. Instead would take zombie dragon.
 
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
6
#8
Count Mannfred: General, 530

Master Necromancer: General, lvl 4, Death, Obsidian Lodestone, Sceptre of Stability, 250

Vampire: BSB, lvl 1, Vampire, Aura of Dark Majesty, Dispel Scroll, 180

29 Skeleton Warriors: FCG, Banner of Swiftness, 190

3x25 Zombies: Musician, Banner, 3x 85

4x5 Direwolves: 4x 40

10 Crypt Horrors: Champion, 390

Terrorgheist: 225

Mortis Engine: 220

Total 2400

And you are happy to lose! :)
 
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
6
#9
No,no this is not my list. It´s a pro list by a pro player from Finland. The thing is I don´t want to play the same list though it would be good, instead to find my own way to optimal list.
 
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
47
#10
The only way to really flesh out what works well for you is to go out there and do it. Take the list you've got and run it a few times to see what works well for you and what doesn't. Happy hunting!
 
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
240
#11
It also comes down to if you are willing to accept the help of others. You already stated that you are a new player.
My personal advice is to play test the army and units first before you take it to a tournament. Or otherwise go with what others recommended you if you're set on winning. If you're not, no harm done and feel free to playtest your own army. If you're in for the win do not dismiss the usefull information they've provided you with that easily and try to learn from them instead. ;-)
Personally I wouldn't take your list to a tournament I mean to win. You'll struggle in so many ways. It lacks general synergy.

Don't rely on the stats of your vampire lord to suffice. There's still but loads of things that will thrump a VL that isn't properly kitted out.
 
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
187
#12
Is it no End Times or no Undead legions? Because Vampire counts can take Morghasts.

But as other have said, you should play a few games with that list, find out what you like and what you don't and then adjust accordingly. You won't find what works best for you without playing lots of games.
 
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