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beeblicon

Black Knight
Dec 27, 2009
355
Sweeney Todd said:
Regarding the impaler thing, the trouble is 5th ed largely doesn't use VP any more. And it would be a bit unfair if every captured model nets you bonus KP, as that can stack up really fast. The nanobots attack and defense thing sounds cool but it seems a bit unwieldy for a mechanic meant to see play.

perhaps make it on a 4+? like dark eldar who gain a vp for every model they kill in cc
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
So I have had some more thoughts on the weaponry front:

Cythor Weaponry - I posted this in the Cythor thread, but basically they can use their weapons using their own natural echo abilities. I was thinking this would create a short range reasonably powerful sonic pulse, designed to be used as an assault weapon before they get into combat. It would also explain why they are still powerful when compared to the Chiro ones, as to get the same level of power the Chiros had to use the nanos.

Chiro Weaponry:

Firstly I was thinking that the long ranged / spike shots etc that the Black Templars encountered were actually developed by the Chiros? This means we can keep the Cythors fitting in with the background, whilst still fitting in with the established background. These elements hung back during the campaign, letting the Cythor's do all the front line assault, resulting in the little knowledge on the Chiros?

Now for the "zombies". I had more thoughts and it didn't feel right them actually holding weaponry, having the skill to reload etc. So then I thought of this:

acontinuousfire.files.wordpress.com_2008_12_samus_aran_hires.jpg

Now ignore the rest of the pic, I mean the cannon on her arm. How about that the Chiros have taken to actually attaching the sonic guns onto the "zombies" arm? The nanos would mean the weapon was rejected, and all the "zombie" would have to do would point his arm. I think it would look really cool modelling wise, and quite unique? The weapon itself would be a low powered run of the mill basic trooper weapon of course.

Then of course using this, we could have more powerful variants, granted to Veterans, maybe a troop choice that is not a zombie, but still human aka ghouls etc.

Some more weapon ideas:

A missile launcher type weapon. It launches a capsule with a crystal encased within. Upon impact the crystal explodes thanks to some nanobot magic and creates a sonic boom effect. I imagine it to be low powered like a frag missile, but covering an ordnance blast areas and also pinning.

The afore mentioned disruptor type weapon. Again I imagine a couple of different types:
A heavy weapon type that if hits a tank etc, has the chance of stopping its weapons / movement / both. Has an extra effect on skimmers.
A variant that can remove invulnerable saves either for a turn or possibly for the game?

I also like the idea of having an adaptive power supply from the nanos, that can either be used to improve defence or offence. However I would suggest that this is an upgrade, or for an elite unit?
 

Morbraelle

Zombie
Jan 5, 2010
27
I'm still tossing my hat into the ring for the chiro's having some way less complicated, but equally cool stuff, like poisonous needle launchers, and all sorts of rings and ornaments that shoot lasbeams or scatter lasers
Yes, I'd like my Chiro to be able to take people out with his bling!

hehe
 
Now ignore the rest of the pic, I mean the cannon on her arm. How about that the Chiros have taken to actually attaching the sonic guns onto the "zombies" arm? The nanos would mean the weapon was rejected, and all the "zombie" would have to do would point his arm. I think it would look really cool modelling wise, and quite unique? The weapon itself would be a low powered run of the mill basic trooper weapon of course.

First, I'm assuming you meant the nanos would mean the weapon was not rejected right? Otherwise the rest of the statement seems obsolete. I'm gonna work off that assumption, hope I'm not wrong.
If the sonic weaponry was attached to the 'zombies' arm, how would it be powerd. Just above you started discussin having the Fiends sonic weaponry powerd by their own bodies rythems as it were, so how would that effect be replicated here? The main reason I ask is that I want clarification on what you think the power 'crystal' will be like. It seems similar to that used by the vespid in the Tau 'dex, was that your thinking?
 

beeblicon

Black Knight
Dec 27, 2009
355
Oh please can we have zombie suicide bombers? !!

I can just see a unit of guardsmen, with some sort of mechanical cerebral attachment on thier head forcing them to move, they can be all shot/chopped up...shambling along untill they get into cc with the enemy and BOOOM
MUAH!
 

Count Erick

Wight King
Dec 28, 2008
465
Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait...wait....
Your telling me that...thing is female?
First they wanted to be able to vote, then they wanted our jobs, now their even taking our power armour! With unnecessarily large shoulder pads to boot! Where will it end!
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Guys, I feel a little that other are not putting that much effort in to this project. Basically by this I mean I have not seen many posts where people have presented an idea where they have thought it through indepth, given reasons / how it works etc. I also have made a fair few posts that do not garner much proper feedback.

For example Marcus’s feedback to the gun on arm idea is great. He is thinking how it works etc.

All I am saying is that I do want this project to work, however if people could please start putting in some more effort and thought?

/rant over

Now Marcus:

Firstly I am just making this up off the top of my head, so I am not sure how much could actually work. Let me know what you think.

Source of Sonic Weaponry
This is a crystal indigenous to the Cythor Fiend homeworld. In its native state is constantly emits sound, however the frequency of this is far outside human and most alien spectrums. The Cythor’s only managed to locate it as their echo location sight basically highlighted it in their vision.
After some experimentation they discovered that bombarding the crystal with a certain sonic wave caused the crystal to react. They can emit this sonic wave in the same way the emit the sounds to use echolocation. This reaction had a powerful effect, causing the crystal to emit a powerful sonic pulse, rising in potency dependant on the initial sonic wave to activate this.
After various experiments, and no doubt many deaths, they devised a weapon using it. They found that certain minerals in the surround rocks could dull the sonic pulse emitted, and they used this to forge the weapon to hold the crystal. Eventually they devised a way to activate the crystal and fire the sonic pulse in a directed fashion, and their weaponry was born.

Now the above is a bit slack on details but hopefully someone can help fill them in.

Chiro “Zombie” Armweapon.

This barrel shaped weapon is surgically grafted to the zombies army which has been amputated below the elbow. The firing circuitry is attacked to the neural impulses of the hosts arm.
Inside this cannon instead of the singular crystal like the Cythor weapons which produces a short range blast, there is an array of smaller crystals arranged in a circular fashion. Upon an impulse form the hosts neural system, the nanobots in the weapon emit an electromagnetic field with similar sonic properties as the Cythors. This results in the crystals activating, and thanks to their more advanced arrangement etc, fire a tighter, longer ranged sonic pulse. The nanobots firing the weapon then must enter the hosts blood stream to recharge, however these are small enough in number to not require the host to feed, however it does mean the weapon is quite slow firing, (i.e one shot per turn).

How does that look?
 

Sanai

Stylish Deviant
True Blood
Oct 30, 2009
5,193
Behind Darvy
Looks good.
With the sonic weapon, does the crystal get sound activated individually each time it fires, or do they create a sonic wave which is reverberated within the weapon, keeping the sonic charge going, with the weapon just releasing some of it each time it fires? Im thinking maybe they use their sonic ability to sorta reload the weapon with sonic frequency. Dunno if that makes sense.

The Cannon sounds pretty good too. Like the nanobots using blood to recharge.
Are these weapons audible when they fire?
Also, we should look at exactly how these weapons damage a target.
When they hit a person, I am imaging it has some percussive force which hits the person in a wave doing the following things
1# The wave of sonic vibration through the air hits them hard, knocking them back and damaging their tissues and flesh
2#If not knocked over, and the person manages to stay up, the damage is much worse. Instead of knocking them over and going past, the sound wave has to go THROUGH the persons body, rupturing blood vessels, bursting valves and organs, boiling fluids, destroying nerves and bursting eardrums. (This is just what I imagine would happen, I am not sure what would actually happen.
3# Any not hit directly are disorientated and deafened by the sound frequency of the passing wave.

Also, some sound frequencies can do interesting things to ones body. The US military developed an area denial system which used an inaudible sound to cause peoples sphincter muscles to go crazy, causing them to bowl over in agony as they shat themselves.
Of course, as appealing as the idea of a space marine or ork crapping themselves is, I think that would be innapropiate. However, if you can do it to a sphincter muscle, I dont see why you cant do it to other muscles, or even all of someones muscles.
 
Source of Sonic Weaponry
This is a crystal indigenous to the Cythor Fiend homeworld. In its native state is constantly emits sound, however the frequency of this is far outside human and most alien spectrums. The Cythor’s only managed to locate it as their echo location sight basically highlighted it in their vision.
After some experimentation they discovered that bombarding the crystal with a certain sonic wave caused the crystal to react. They can emit this sonic wave in the same way the emit the sounds to use echolocation. This reaction had a powerful effect, causing the crystal to emit a powerful sonic pulse, rising in potency dependant on the initial sonic wave to activate this.
After various experiments, and no doubt many deaths, they devised a weapon using it. They found that certain minerals in the surround rocks could dull the sonic pulse emitted, and they used this to forge the weapon to hold the crystal. Eventually they devised a way to activate the crystal and fire the sonic pulse in a directed fashion, and their weaponry was born.

Ok. So, in effect, they use radar to activate the crystals, which emit a more powerful sonic wave. My question with this is as such: Assuming the 'weapon' they use uses these dulling rocks to channel the sonic wave, once it had left the end of the barrel, the wave would just spill out in a short but violent thunderclap. Now this may be effective, but imagine if you will just 1 Feind gets confused/dazed/fires from the wrong position. He culs fiesibly wipe out all creatures nearby, Fiend or no. This seems a very risky proposition for a technologically 'advaced' race, they must have some way of controlling it. I would actually be tempted to reverse the weapons for the Fiends and the 'zombies' - the Fiends have the more tightly focussed longer ranged sonic beams, whereas the fodder are area of effect one-shot wonders, used to clear swathes of a battlefield, with little regard to their own safety.

To Sanai: You know si-fi films, where you see planets implode then have the blue ring of debree fly out and a kind of whooshing noise? Thats what I imagine sonic weaponry sounds like.
As to the effects of the weaponry, I think first we should focus on the method of firing and which types of weapons get allocated to who. Lets discuss all the fun repercussions of blasting a Smurf with bowel-loosening sonic waves AFTER we know just how those sonic waves shall be fired.
 

Sanai

Stylish Deviant
True Blood
Oct 30, 2009
5,193
Behind Darvy
Ooh do you mean like in star wars attack of the clones where Jango Fett uses like seismic charges and it goes all silent as it sucks in, then is released?
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Marcus - there seems to be some confusion over the Cythor Fiends. In the other thread the general consensus is that they are actually a lot less technologically advanced than the Chiros, hence they would of course have the less advanced sonic weapon.

Now bear in mind the stuff I came up with was just off the top of my head. Basically what I think the Cythor's should end up with is a short range blast weapon. Basically like a sonic shotgun. This would fit perfectly in with their role as shock troops, landing nearby and stunning / maiming their opponents before they go and in rip them apart.

Now the more advanced version would be built on the Cythor one by the Chiros. I thought this would make a good troop weapon, having a range maybe comparable to a lasgun thanks to the enhanced designed the the nanobots. How I imagined it would look is like a beam weapon, however it would be made up of circular rings.

Damage wise, the Cythor weapons would be more of a concussive short range blast. Yes this would work against other Cythors, however they are a warlike race and no doubt fight amongst one another as the human race.

The Chiro weapon works more on a "drill" effect. The tightly focused beam vibrates and breaks apart bonds act the molecular level, giving it the AP penetration as highlighted in the Black Templar report. I thought that way would be better, as then it is not stepping too much on the Noise Marines toes who work more with the concussive blast / turning guts into mush.
 

Sanai

Stylish Deviant
True Blood
Oct 30, 2009
5,193
Behind Darvy
Seeing as how you have been bringing up vehicle mounts and stuff, maybe we should discuss their vehicles.
Im thinking some kind of fast transport that can have stealth tech and lethal weapons on it. (Normally transports have very ineffective weapons, I think instead of ineffective weapons they oughta have smaller or medium good weapons that are really effective against infantry or light vehicles)

I am thinking some of the vehicle weapon options should be
Primary- Some kind of projectile weapon that fires fast and pins (This is to get the enemies heads in cover so your troops can disembark safely)
- An energy weapon that is for taking out light vehicles that has an effect like the ion cannon on star wars (shorts out there systems for temporary weapon destroyed/vehicle immobilised results) (To disable enemy light vehicles in the disembarkation area so that the troops can safely finish them off with melta bomb equivalents)

Secondary- Stealth Field (Nanotech shield technology that distorts light and stealths it up, so it can insert troops covertly/safely)
-Souped up Sonic thingo (Blasts sonic waves all around the vehicle, stunning and hurting any enemy troops that are too close to the vehicle.)
- Zombie Link (Enables the vehicle to have a bunch of zombies. Works sorta like the tau drone attachment. The zombies, being just mindless zombies, are stored in the vehicle/ in containers attached to the vehicle, as they dont need to be comfortable. They can either be attached to the disembarking squad or be used to defend the transport against assault)

Being a transport I would imagine it having one primary and maybe two secondary slots.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Just a note I have started a thread specifically for the shielding tech etc.

In regards to the tanks etc, I think first we have to agree in what type of machines we will have. However another thread should be started for that. This thread should just be to confirm the background fluff for the availbile weapons.

Currently with the discussion we seem to have:

Sonic blaster, shotgun type weapon for the Cythors
Sonic gun, like a standard type gun for zombies.
Sonic disruptor type weapon for immbolising / disabling weapons.
Leech CC weapon. basically a nasty weapon that allows Chiros to feed / infect their opponents.

What other types of weapons? Someone mentioned needle type weapons - is there any more details on this. I don't see how this fits with the current setup, however if more info / ideas could be provided then we could see how it works.

Any comments on my crystal grenade / missile type idea? Where a cannister is lauched with a "primed" crystal, which when it shatters creates a shockwave. In game terms a missile launcher type weapon, ordnance blast template, low strength and AP, but has pinning.

Any ideas of the more powerful weapons, like a powerful sonic cannon etc?
 

Sanai

Stylish Deviant
True Blood
Oct 30, 2009
5,193
Behind Darvy
Am unsure how useful an upscaled sonic weapon would be at range. Is it feasible to have a heavy weapon scale sonic weapon? i.e, would it be able to reliably fire a sonic wave at long range without it spreading out and dissipating?
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
If we write in the fluff it would yes xd Same way that we have trouble in todays world sustaining a laser beam over a long distance but they can do in 40K.

Then again this is open for debate, if anyone has an idea which fits in with what we have so far then say so!
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Hmm, maybe that would work.

Perhaps something like a bigger crystal providing a bigger initial blast. This is then focused into a firing chamber which is created partly using the shield tech discussed elsewhere. The frequency of the shield in the firing chamber is designed to amplify the initial blast, resulting in cascading effect. At this point the chamber has been sealed, meaning the reaction has no where to go and simply builds. As the force reaches a point where it is about to overload and breach the shield, a portion of the shield is lowered etc, causing the blast out of that area, along a long barrel with suitable tech to focus the blast, resulting in one helluva sonic blast.

I would imagine the above being a tank type weapon?
 
Mmmm, I can see this as being a tank-type weapon. Of course, the way you describe it it would seem that this was either a blast the enemy to smithereens or hide behind my shield type of thing, as if the frequency of the shield is used to 'charge' the blast, surely that would detract from the shields shielding potential. I know this is being discussed in another thread, but I am a little confused as to the following point:
If 1 crystal would be used to power both weapon and shield, then it seems rather unreliable and risky, but if 2 seperate crystals were used to power the weapon and shield respectively, then wouldn't the 2 different frequencies emmited interfere with each other?
 

Meier Lenk

Black Knight
Aug 29, 2008
320
manchester
could make an lr sonic weapon a kind of timed charge? kindve like the equivalent of a sonic mortar or something? light the fuse, launch the "bomb" and when the time runs out it unleashes 9 kinds of sonic hell? (probably some form of grindcore i guess :tongue:)

this could be a rudimentary zombie or cythor (assuming we have a cythor basic troop or heavy support choice) operated version perhaps, with more exotic sonic heavy weaponry being the remit of the chiro and higher value cythor themselves?

as to sonic sidearms, perhaps we could give the cythor personal guns some real wierd flavour?

*currently irrelevant rules bit which my fluff justifies* im thinking we could possibly make them very short range low strength barrage weapons? *end*

such short range assault guns would, i think, not have much in the way of actual focus-crystals, so that the attack is weaker and less refined in terms of dealing damage, but is still quite capable of stunning the target...they could be perfected versions of historical hunting weaponry for example?
what im kinda envisaging is packs of cythor' sneaking up on the early chiro-forces in the cave systems, then literally beating them to the ground with a wall of sound before getting up close and stabitty...it would certainly leave more undamaged flesh on the bone :konrad:. cave systems wouldnt be optimal for long range warfare, in the same way that boarding actions find shotguns being the weapon of choice for the imperials, this sonic pistol-type weapon could be the assault gun of choice for the cythor?

i have to admit when i heard the term "sonic weaponry" i thought of knights of the old republic, where this kinda weapon can cause stun or knockdown if i remember right. :mrgreen:
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Meier - have you read through my earlier posts, as two of your suggestions (shotgun and mortor) are basically what I said ;)

Yes, I do think the Cythor weapons should be short range shotgun-type weapons. Less focused as they are less technologically advanced as the Chiros, I would imagine it to basically blast the opponent with concussive force, either of course killing them, but more importantly disorienting them. This then allows the Cythors to easily get into CC which is where they perform the best. Fluff wise, this would make sense as you said about the caves. It would have been the Chiros who later developed the longer range weapons.

The mortar idea is similar to mine, though I imagine it firing like a rocket launcher. My concept was a crystal was encased in a capsule, which upon impact shatters at which time a store of nanobots overload the crystal which promptly explodes causing an ordnance size blast, around the strength of a frag missile.

Marcus – In regards to your queries – the shield concepts are not powered by crystals. They were originally generated by in a host by the nanobots, and thus have been developed from that. The shield generators would have a store of nanobots and some other tech wizardry to create the shield. So in the weapon I described the large blast is encased in a projected shield, which as well as containing the blast emits a resonance the causes the original blast to cascade, growing in strength exponentially. Think of this shield as part of the actual weapon, not part of the tanks etc defensive systems. It will basically be a containment sphere built into the gun which will activate / deactivate in certain parts to allow the blast in, to increase its strength, and then to release it along the focussing chamber.
 

Sanai

Stylish Deviant
True Blood
Oct 30, 2009
5,193
Behind Darvy
Perhaps another weapon, this one a deployable or carryable one, would be a large scale sonic weapon that instead of firing of a single blast, does a continuous reverberating sonic wave in all or many directions, being used as an area denial weapon.
 

Meier Lenk

Black Knight
Aug 29, 2008
320
manchester
DoN....that will be were the idea came from. i sometimes forget ive read something somewhere and bring it up again like that, sorry :redface:

and perhaps i shoulda been a little clearer, in the case of the "shotgun" thing that these sonic guns would be able to fulfill a similar role, not that they would be sonic shotguns per se.

nontheless i should always check threads to make sure im not having a brainfart episode :)
 

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