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VC vs Empire 3k Game

Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
178
#1
Hello dear kindreds,
I had the opportunity to test out my 3000 point last friday for it's first proper one-on-one outing.

Ghouls Master

Heroes:
Vampire Lord (General), lvl 3, Crown of the Damned, Helm of Command, Nightshroud, Sword of might, Ghoulkin, Inf. Hatred, Red fury. (455)

Vampire Lord on Abyssal terror, Walach's Hauberk, Balefire spike, Book of Arkhan, Inf. Hatred, Red fury, Walking death. (530pts)

Vampire, BSB, Sword of Battle, Flayed Hauberk, Red Fury, Talisman of Lycni (225)

Vampire, Enchanted shied, Cadaverous cuirass, Power stone, Black Acolyte, Summon Ghouls (195)

Wight king, Skeletal steed, Barding, Sword of King, Gem of blood (145)

Necromancer, Add. Spell (Danse), Black Periapt, Dispel scroll (110)

Core units:
3 x 20 ghouls with champ (504)
10 ghouls with champ (88)
2 x 5 Dire Wolves (80)
7 dire wolves with champ (56)

Special units:
5 Black knights, barding, Standard (Strigos) (191)
2 x 3 Fell bats (120)

Rare:
Varghulf (xxx)
3 Cairn wraiths with Banshee (175)

PD: 11 (12) + BoA and PS.
DD: 8 (9) + 1 DS

Total : 2999/3000 points



My opponent approximately had:

Grand Master (kitted with the victory thingy that doubles the kill bonuses)

Wizard Lord, lvl 4, on Pegasus (kitted with light magic and a staff the steels unused PD and DD)

Captain BSB (banner that gives a reroll for fear, psychology and panic tests).

Battle Mage (lore of metal) mounted

Battle mage (lore of beast and the Von Horstman’s speculum)

Warrior Priest (with classical stuff)

10 x Handgunners (not too sure for the numbers)
16 x Hangunners (not too sure for the numbers)
25 x Spearman (or halbardiers?) FC with standard detachments.
25 x Swordsmen FC (warrior priest here) with standard detachments.
20 x Greatswords with FC, magic banner (Warbanner) (BSB captain here with lore of beast mage) with 2 detachment: 5 handgunners and 8-10 Halbardiers. (not too sure)
11x Inner Circle Knights with FC and magic Banner (general here with lore of metal mage)
6 x White wolf Knights
6 x Outriders with champ and musician.
1 x Mortar
1 x Steam Tank

Spells:
AT lord - Raise, Wind
VLord - Raise, Danse, Wind
BSB – Curse (I should have taken raise)
Vamp – Gaze, Danse
Necro – IoN and Danse

The terrain set up was quite fun, with a ruin on my left side of the table, a forge in my opponent deployment zone, a hill in the middle of the map, a forest just at his right and a long hill on the eastern side. (We used artillery dice for the elaboration of this set up and I was quite pleased by it!)

My opponent took the side with the hill and gave me the side that was most crowded with terrain pieces.

I deployed first, finishing with the surprising AT vamp hiding in the left side ruin, with my three main ghouls blocks next to one another with the ghoul bunker and the two small direwolves units right behind them. These units opposing all his main core troops with the IC knights just behind the hill with the smaller handgunners unit. The Black Knights were beside the hill (preparing for flank charging the enemy line) and the Wraiths+banshee in front of the forest (cheers for ethearal movements) with the Varghulf on the right flank (for marching purposes ) covered by the 7-wide direwolves unit opposing the White wolfs knight and the Steam tank. The fell Bats at the extreme right (opposing the Mortar and big unit of handgunners).

Before the game begins, I use the ghoulkin powers to march move all my ghoul units with heroes to put pressure on the opposing army.

Turn 1
EMP.
He wins the first turn, but doesn’t move too much of his troops because he doesn’t want to be in the ghouls charging range. Only the Inner circle knights take control of the central hill to flank my troops and maybe force one of my ghoul units to charge them (and be destroyed), with caster lord hiding on their left side to have land of sight for his offensive spells. On the right side, the White wolf knights move in the forest to approach my flank force and the Steam Tank position itself to shoot on my wolves and varghulf.
On the magic phase, I’m quite impressed by the number of PD and items my opponent has. I dispel much of his spells, but an irresistible burning gaze kills 3 of my BK (I had only one successful AS). The Wizard lords than miscasts and lose one level (good!). But the metal mage kills my last two remaining knights with distillation of molten silver. I should’ve used my dispel scroll but I wanted to keep it in case of a disastrous cleansing flare. I also let the warrior priest cast imm. To psychology on his unit and the rest of the spells were all dispelled. I kept 3 dices because I thought he would have magic items so I put one of those in the Periapt and the other two are stole by the Wizard lord.
In the shooting phase, the mortar killed some ghouls (4 in the Bunker!), the Stank killed two wolves and put one wound on the Varghulf (we love regeneration»!) and the handgunners and outriders were out of range.

VC
On my turn, the General FAILS his stupidity test (crown of *(&(**) so his unit cannot move and he wont cast any spell…
The BSB declares a charge against the big detachment group on the left side of the Greatsword. They flee, but not far enough and the lycni vamp chops them all off and end his course in a very good position behind the enemy line. In the middle, my rightmost ghoul unit with caster-vamp declares a charge against the big knight unit on the hill with the Wight lord and AT vamp doing the same. Unlickily, the AT-vamp is a bit too far and wastes his charge ending at the side of the hill. All other units advance forward, preparing for some combined charges with the wolves angling in front of the greatswords to oblige them to offer their flank to the ghouls next turn. The banshee goes forward to meet the White wolf knights and the varghulf, wolves and bats prepare for a 2nd turn charge on the Mortar and handgunners. In the magic, I grow more ghouls, I danse the Dragon in the knighs combat and I can’t raise zombies to block the steam tank because of dispelling pressure and the use of a dispel scroll.
In the shooting, my banshee doesn’t do anything (A big 5…)
In combat, the knights are totally trampled by the co,bined forces of the Lord, the AT, the vamp, the WS7 ghouls and the WK…Only the champion and the general are left alive and they are destroyed by the ensuing pursuit move (I had some very lucky dices and he had lots of badluck with his armor saves…). I was very happy with this success, but not too happy with the AT-vamp being now in the LoS of the Steam Tank after his pursuit. No other units flee from panic because of the BSB reroll.

Turn 2
EMP.
With their generals and knights just dying in front of them, the Imperial troops are vengeful and they decide to declare some charges. The Stank declare charges against the AT-Lord with a 15” charge move! The white wolf knights also try to attack the banshee but are terrorised! The greatsword charge the wolves placed in they charging range on purpose. On the movement phase, the Wizard mage flees behind one of my ghoul units and the other troops position themselves.
On the magic phase, with the death of one of the wizards, I shut down most of it, using a dispel scroll to dispel a cleansing flare attempt (with 18 on 4-dices!).
Shooting: The outriders had all positioned themselves to fire on the Lycni-vamp but all there 25 attacks miss or just couldn’t pass the endurance of the lonely vamp!
The mortar misfires and cannot shot for 2 rounds (muahahaha), the handgunners kills some wolves (only 3 left in the 7-men unit) and shoot the varghulf whose regeneration saves all hits.
On the combat, the Stank has 12 S6 impact hits on the vampire and AT thingy. That’s enough to kill the beast, wound my Lord one time. He isn’t able to do a single wound on the Tank with S5 and CR see him explode with 5 CR wounds. The Ward save only saves two…
The wolves are also killed by CR after they combat against the greatswords. As of which, I had an interrogation. My opponent said he could do an irresistible charge because all the wolves died by CR on the first turn of combat. I opposed him that he didn’t kill all the troops in combat and that they died with CR. We didn’t fin a clear answer to that in any rulebook so we decided to roll a dice that gave me reason. Was it the good decision?

VC
Generals passes stupidity.
My unengaged unit with general charges the greatswords in the front with the lycni vamp coming from behind. On the other side, the varghulf and surviving wolves charge the handgunners (S&S kills 2 other wolves), while the fell bats and fresh wolf unit charges the mortar. On the move, the banshee and wraiths pursue the cowardly knigts and the unengaged ghoul unit with no hero goes on the left flank to protects flanks against outriders and spearman. The Wight king pursue the Wizard lord alone and the ghoul unit that killed the knights position itself to face the swordsman unit.
On the magic phase, I don’t do lots of things, beside invoke some ghouls and having my raise spells all dispelled once again.
Shooting: The banshee kills one knight with the howl!
Combat: The Varghulf and wolves run down the hand gunners with the wolves going out of the table. The fell bats and wolves also run-down the mortar crew and the wolves once again pursue out of the table with the fellbats just on the verge. The ghouls against the Greatsword unit win combat by ONE (with a duel between the Von Speculum mage and the Ghoul champion being a draw in my favour because I scored one wound with the mage pitifull stats (bless the dices!) and have them flee but aren’t able to catch’em, even with the help of the lycni vamp (would’ve loved to have a line of zombies behind this costy unit). The outrider and detachments all miss their panic tests and start to flee.

Turn 3
EMP.
The steam tank declares a charge at the back of my general ghoul unit. The swordsmen unit also tries to charge but fail their fear test.Outriders flee out of the table with 2 units of detachment. Spearman fail their terror test (banshee and friends) and also flee out of the table! The Greatsword rally themselves, but are far from the rest of the empire army, so the BSB is useless. The White wolf knights also rally themselves in front of the banshee. The mage continues to fly out of reach of the wight king and position himself to cast his destructive light spells.
Magic: Bunker is reduced to cinder with first a cleansing flare (killing 5 ghouls in the general unit and reducing the bunker to a necro and the ghoul champ) and then Burning gaze (bye bye necro….). Other spells are all dispelled.
Shooting: Not much left, the 10 man handgunners unit shoots some wolves or ghouls, can’t remember.
Combat: The S.Tank scores 14 S6 IMPACT HITS in the general ghoul unit !!!! With the rear bonus, I have a CR of minus 13 (Thanks the BSB), so the 9 other ghouls explode and the lonely general left has 4 Ward Saves to take to survive. Luckily, I pass 3 out of the 4 test. So now, I have my general alone against a Stank that is full heal, it doesn’t look good…

VC
So, on the charge, my western ghoul unit charges the Greatswords again, hoping to kill the mage and break the whole unit. My Wight king is too far to charge the mage, but my Lycni vamp is in charge move! The mage chooses the flee reaction,and the lycni fails his charge. The Banshees and Wraiths charge the WWolf Knights who stand. The rest of the army moves to be close to the general to help him. The varghulf and wolves prepare to charge the other handgunners unit.
Magic phase: I heal the general, raise some wolves and ghouls.raise a new unit of zombies behind the tank (4), invoke more zombies in it (11) and Danse it in the back of the Tank.
Shooting: The Banshee kills the 4 last knights with a beautiful double 6.
Combat: Zombies cannot hurt the STANK, but the Vamp puts 1 wound on it. The tank replies (on this note, we didn’t know if the hits were on the los or on the zombies, we decided it was 25-75) and does not wound the general but kills 6 zombies. So, I lose combat by 1, but the BSB saves the wound.
The ghouls combat against the Greatsword goes very well for me (the mage challenging and not doing anything and the Captain fluffing all his attacks but one) with lots of poison and wounds. Once again, the greatswords flee only 5” but I roll 4”…

Turn 4
Empire
No charge, but the swordsmen with priest move to join the Stank in his combat. The detachment position itself so that my other ghoul block won’t have the choice but to charge it next turn. The greatswords one again rally themselve (really close to the edge of the table), but the mage lord isn’t as lucky and he moves on the side of the table.
Magic: All his dispelled, save one bear’s anger.
Shooting: 2 fellbats die to handgunners.
Combat: The steam thank once agains battles the vamp.lord and zombies. The vampire lord does 2 other wounds, reducing drastically the effectiveness of the tank. The steam tank kills 3 other zombies and CR . Only 6 zombies left.

VC
The lefthand gouls once against charge the greatswords and the central ghouls charge the interposing halbardier detachment. The Wight king charges the Mage-lord, making him flee out of the table. The lycni vamp charges the Steam tank to help the general, as do the one remaining fell bat. The varghulf and two wolves charge the handgunners. On the move, the Banshee approach the handgunners and one wolf unit goes to take the right quarter table on my side.
Magic: One wolf is resurrected in the 2-wolf unit to give them US5 for the last turns. After that, my lord raises 9 new zombies but miscasts on the raise dead spell (with 2 dices) tempted to delay the swordsmen unit and ends the magic phase!
Shooting: Banshee kills 4 handgunners.
Combat: Varghulf and wolves kill all handgunner and do an irresistible charge in the direction of the central action. The Left-hand ghouls battle once again against the Greatswords but this time the wizard kills the ghoul champ. In duel and the captain doesn’t fluff his attacks. I lose the combat by 5, having only 12 ghouls left. The central ghouls destroy the halberdier detachment and caught them in the flee section.
The STANK combat continues with the vampire reducing it to 5 wounds. With only 5 wounds left, the thanks isn’t able to anything… But he is unbreakable so he stays.

Turn 5
Empire
With nothing left, the unit of swordsmen with priest charge the zombies.
Magic: Dispelled.
Shooting : No shooting left.
Combat: The greatswords finally destroy the left-hand ghoul unit with kills and CR (ranks, warbanner, BSB, etc.). In the central section, the tank isn’t able to do anything and loses 2 wound but the swordsmen kill 8 zombies (with hatred!) and win combat by 2. So everyone loses a wound. The fell bat dies, the vampire hero is reduced to one wound, the lord loses one wound and the zombies are reduced to 6.

VC
I declare charge with the only ghoul unit left on the Swordsmen rear and I position the Varghulf on a flank. The banshee tryes to come near, but is too far to use her owl. The 2-man wolves unit go on the enemy right side to claim another table quarter. The wight king starts his slow come bck from the bottom of the table.
Magic: The Varghulf is danced in the flank of the swordsmen. A wolf is resurrected in the 2-man unit. The V.Lord is healed and the rest of the spells are dispelled or missed.
Combat: Vamp.L. combat vamp aren’t able to do a single wound on the tank. Zombies are completely wiped by priest and swordsmen. But the Varghulf and Vampire+ghouls do 7 kill. With CR, I win and the unit flee. The varghulf and ghoul unit caught the unit, which is destroyed.

Turn 6
Empire
- He only moves back his only remaining unit, the greatswords with captain and mage, to be out of charge of all my units.
- Magic: Dispelled.
- Combat: The two vamps are left alone on the vamp and don’t score ANY wound on him !!!!!!! He has tremendous armor saves! Hopefully, the BSB saves the crumbling wound.

VC:

The ghouls take control of the 3rd table quarter I can control and rest of the army moves around, because they cannot do anything.
Magic: I raise and boost a zombie unit to contest the table quarter of the Greatswords. I also heal some wolves, ghouls and varghulf. But I don’t take any risk, only doing one-dice magic, and missing a lot because of that.
Combat: The two vamps continue to try and brake the STAnk, but only achieve to bring him down to 1 wound in this final round of combat.


So, all in all, a very exciting and bloody game. I finished with a solid victory and some highlights:

- Abyssal terror is not a good thing… Or I really wasn’t careful enough. Still, I’m quite sur a Lord on foot or mounted on a nightmare would have been much better (and more protected).

- Crown of the Damned made me lose part of the game (no magic and movement on the critical first turn…) but win the other (WARD save against wound from CR with the tank… Without that, it was game over. So, I don’t know if I will still use it… But ward saves are so important with our generals.

- Helm of command was only used once because the lord was always in combat with the STANk.

- Wolves and fell bats were, as always, strategic game winners.

- The bunker will have to be boosted in the first turns in the next games so it can resist to all sorts of magic.

- Lycni-BSB, Varghulf and banshee were all stars units.

- The BK were all destroyed before having even moved in the first turn… I don’t know what to think about that, should I keep them, ditch them, invest more or less points in them?

With all those points in head, I’ve thaught about a new list, tell me what you think about it:

Ghouls Master

Heroes:
Vampire Lord (General), lvl 3, Power stone, Walach's Hauberk, Book of Arkhan, Dread knight (Lance, Sh. and Barded Night.), Inf. Hatred, Red fury. (455)

Vampire Lord, lvl 3, Helm of Command, Skull staff, Master of the Black Arts, Summ. Ghouls, Ghoulkin. (440)

Vampire, BSB, Sword of Battle, Flayed Hauberk, Inf. Hatred, Walking Death, Talisman of Lycni (225)

Vampire, Nightshroud, Sword of Might, Black Periapt, Dark Acolyte, Summon Ghouls, (195)

Wight king, Skeletal steed, Barding, Sword of King, Gem of blood (145)

Necromancer, Add. Spell (Danse), 2 x Power stone (110)

Core units:
3 x 20 ghouls with champ (504)
10 ghouls with champ (88)
2 x 5 Dire Wolves (80)
7 dire wolves with champ (56)

Special units:
6 Black knights, barding, Standard (Strigos standard) (219)
2 x 3 Fell bats (120)

Rare:
Varghulf (xxx)
3 Cairn wraiths with Banshee (175)

PD: 14 (15) + BoA and 3 x PS.
DD: 9 (10)

Total : 2997/3000 points

So, I will have a combat-monster lord (I may give him the Balefire spike if I have to face too much regenerating Deamons or Wood Elves) and a pure-mage lord in a ghoul bunker with the necro (so, no protection needed because those guys should never be in any combat). I would've liked this mage to have forbidden lore, but I prefer the Ghoulkin power for tactical issues. I ditched the only dispel scroll I had, but with 9 or 10 DD and the skull staff, I don't think I would've needed it (maybe just against Tzeencht and magic heavy High Elves list). I've also changed the defense of the cadaverous cuirass vamp. for the nightshroud, which I think will be much more effective in keeping him alive.
I also added a 6th knight in the BK unit to try the 7-wide front... I don't know if it will be effective, but at least they will have more survavibility. I took back the Strigos banner for obvious rubber lances reasons. I'm also thinking about upping this number to 9, 10 or even 11 to have a big unit of knights with standard of strigos or Barrow (I would ditch a unit of fell bats and a unit of wolves to have the points for it).

Don't know if I did well with those changes. What do you think everyone?
 

Munkey

Grave Guard
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
257
#2
Nice fight and a great result!

I think a unit still gets to overrun when a unit crumbles in front of it... "If a unit charges into combat and, by the end of that turn's combat phase all it's enemies have been wiped out, the unit may make a pursuit move, even with nobody left alive to pursue."

The Stank can grind who it chooses in combat. So your opponent could have targeted your general with all his grinding attacks!!!

I've not played at 3ooo pts in this version of the rules. How long did your game last?
 

Oracle

Vargheist
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
604
#3
Nice, and very enjoyable read. Sounded like a close game, with some good and bad luck both ways. Im not a fan of that particular type of list (lots of gouls and a goulthing vamp) but it did well. Id agree with the Abyssal terror, i dont find that very large targets survive long. Although you were playing empire...

Id keep at least one dispel scroll, because even with that many dispel dice some good rolling by your opponent could see that game breaking spell get through. If you wanted more points why not drop the necro? If he just has Danse and Raise, and hes sitting in the bunker with the lord, he isnt that usefull, you could get that increased size for the Black Knights, without losing your dogs which sounded critical to your game.
 
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
178
#4
Munkey --> - Thanks for the rule quote. In this game, it wasn't an important affair, but it's good to know about it.
- As for the STank, he could have choose who it attacked in combat? Humm, as you say, my general would have died on my turn 3 (unless I could have passed six 4+ WS). Hummm, on this question, does the WS on CR wounds works exactly like that? I am no too sure I understand the rule well.
- A steam Tank is really an awful thing... Next time I wil just redirect it with dire wolves or swarm it with zombies!
- For this 3000 pts game we started at 14-14h30 and it ended at 19h-19h30 without any pause. It's habitually no less than 5 hours and it can go to some 7 or 8 hours if you stop to eat, etc.

Oracle --> - About the Ghouls, they were always my favorite units in 6th edition and this love has just been growing with them becoming ranked up troops in the 7th. I am now holding 80 of those poor fleshmungers painted and I have 20 more still unpainted.
- For the AT, it was my first time using it and it was my own mistake that had him died on 2nd turn. But I have used plenty of times before a lord on Zombie dragon and even against Empire it fared well. You juste have to hide well in the first turns and be in combat for the rest of the game. Or just find a strategic position to cast spells from.
- For the dispel scroll, I think I will go more "secure" and I'll put one on the necro (so he has 1 PS and 1 DS). As for dropping the necro, I would never do it. He's my guaranteed Danse with the BoA. He's also my cheapest hero and with Danse and Invocation of Nehek (I never take resurrection on a necro) he's a great utility caster (Healing the units before the vamps make them grow over their starting numbers).

So, here's another list I'm thinking of using after putting the small changes I was thinking about and those you suggested.

Ghouls Master

Heroes:
Vampire Lord (General), lvl 3, Power stone, Walach's Hauberk, Book of Arkhan, Dread knight (Lance, Sh. and Barded Night.), Inf. Hatred, Red fury. (455)

Vampire Lord, lvl 3, Helm of Command, Skull staff, Master of the Black Arts, Summ. Ghouls, Ghoulkin. (440)

Vampire, BSB, Sword of Battle, Flayed Hauberk, Inf. Hatred, Walking Death, Talisman of Lycni (225)

Vampire, Nightshroud, Sword of Might, Black Periapt, Dark Acolyte, Summon Ghouls, (195)

Wight king, Skeletal steed, Barding, Sword of King, Gem of blood (145)

Necromancer, Add. Spell (Danse), Dispel scroll, Power stone (115)

Core units:
2 x 20 ghouls with champ (336)
18 ghouls with champ (152)
10 ghouls with champ (88)
2 x 5 Dire Wolves (80)
7 dire wolves with champ (56)

Special units:
9 Black knights, barding, Standard (Undead legion standard (x2 unit strenght)) (293)
3 Fell bats (60)

Rare:
Varghulf (xxx)
3 Cairn wraiths with Banshee (175)

PD: 14 (15) + BoA and 2 x PS.
DD: 9 (10) + 1 x DS

Total : 3000/3000 points

So I put 1 DS on the necro instead of another PS to be sure to dispel one critical spell in the game. I also put out 1 unit of Fell Bats and 2 ghouls to have a unit of 9 BK + Wk with magic standard to outnumber opponent units. I don't like to have an 18 ghoul unit, but I think it's a good deal to have a tough cavalry unit. I habitually field them 6 in the front (for added dommage and KB), but if they are 10 maybe 5 x 5 will be good or 6 x 4 ? When I have a big unit of wight like that I habitually put the Drakenhof Banner to assure survavibility, but I think that in this case the ennemy will already have plenty of things to take care. I will also use terrains cover, as always. I put the Undead legion banner, but I was also thinking of putting the Strigos (does hatred pass on to the horses also? Is hatred only on the first turn?) or the Banner of the Barrows. But I find them a bit too costy, with the unit already costing 438 pts with the WK.

So should I keep the last list or this one?
 
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
46
#5
The STanks grind attacks are randomised as shooting, just like its impact hits, so if there where more than 4 RnF models he cannot hit your character.
 
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
178
#6
So, what is the good answer? Does someone has rule quotes?
Because in the game I was thinking as Solitaire and my opponent as Monkey. So we rolled a dice and my opinion was chosen, but was it really alright?
 
Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
196
#7
Melkhar said:
So, what is the good answer? Does someone has rule quotes?
Just look in the rulebook under impact hits. Solitaire is correct with the addition that impact hits go only against the monster mount and are not randomized onto the rider.

From the Empire FAQ, when fighting multiple units, the STANK can choose what UNIT the hits go against. But it has no control over where they go within the unit.
 
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