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What for Rare choice?

Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
18
#1
I am mostly going to play 2000pt games so i only have one rare choice. So which should i choose? The Black couch can be neat with the right uppgrades, but I wouldn't bet my rare on a few dice rolls. A Varghulf is cheap, allows other unites to march (most often dire wolves) and even though he has 5S and 5A he is not the "massacre unit" i need. Blood knights is of course a good unit, but they are quite expencive and the frenzy makes them hard to maneuver and to keep them safe from all the canonballs and hazardous magic missiles you need to spend 75 pts in banner of blood keep. The last is the Carin Wriths, they are eternal, each have 3 S5 attacks and with banshee they have an armor ignoring range attack that is the bane of low LD units (yes I'm a sucker for eternal stuff). So, what do you think is the best rare unit for a 2000 battle?
 

Yanda

Black Knight
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Messages
376
#2
Nathaniel van Volbloed said:
I am mostly going to play 2000pt games so i only have one rare choice. So which should i choose? The Black couch can be neat with the right uppgrades, but I wouldn't bet my rare on a few dice rolls. A Varghulf is cheap, allows other unites to march (most often dire wolves) and even though he has 5S and 5A he is not the "massacre unit" i need. Blood knights is of course a good unit, but they are quite expencive and the frenzy makes them hard to maneuver and to keep them safe from all the canonballs and hazardous magic missiles you need to spend 75 pts in banner of blood keep. The last is the Carin Wriths, they are eternal, each have 3 S5 attacks and with banshee they have an armor ignoring range attack that is the bane of low LD units (yes I'm a sucker for eternal stuff). So, what do you think is the best rare unit for a 2000 battle?
VC is a weird army, as there is no one true anwser. VC has lots of units that may be successful against some but not against others. For Example, a Dark Elf player will probably love taking Hydras and it doesnt matter who they face, but to a VC player if the right rare is taken we can counter it, such as with etheral models. I personally like the wraiths as a good general list option, but against certain armies they will need to be hidden better or used differently as some armies can hit etheral no problem.

Ive never been a big fan of vargaulf but against the right army composition he can be effective, but if your going to take him for as a terror bomb you can successfully do the same thing with wraiths.

Blood knights are a fun rare choice and imo always fun to field but there are times when there no fun, like when they get wiped out by a lore of metal spell in 1 turn by a slann on a hill.

The black coach being a chariot cannot march, nor can it go through cetain terriain. It can be a pain in the ass to suckup power dice if your unlucky after the 1st turn or two and the coach can be killed from 1 S7 Wound.

As you can see there is no one choice.
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
1,549
#3
Yanda said:
As you can see there is no one choice.
Luckily at 2000pts you can have 2 rare choices (points allowing of course)

I quite like the varghulf, though I wish it did hit a bit harded sometimes. But it can hit hard and irritate you enemy and is pretty good value in my eyes. It can also be a pain in the arse to kill and if my opponent spends there time shooting at the thing then they arn't shooting at the rest of my army :)

Wraiths are good as well, but you need to put more points into them to make them worth there points imo. I don't think 2 wraiths and a banshee will be nearly be as usefull as a vargulf, but once you start getting them up to slightly bigger units they can make up there points well enough.
 
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
28
#4
I like to play with the varghulf in a army less than 2000p its cheap with his 175 points. let him come from the flanks with wolves in support and he regenerate. to hold a few rounds a bigger rare choise or a hard getting lord of unit
 

Yanda

Black Knight
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Messages
376
#5
vargaulf is under US 5 and therefore cant negate enemy rank bonus's. Also it costs the same as a war hydra, despite being way inferior.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
18
#6
Yanda said:
... Also it costs the same as a war hydra, despite being way inferior.
Isn't the issue here that the hydra is underpriced, not the Varghulf being to expencive?

When it comes to the number of wraiths i think 4 wraiths and one banshee is a sutable unit size.
 

Johnny B

Grave Guard
Joined
Sep 21, 2009
Messages
283
#7
Also it costs the same as a war hydra, despite being way inferior.
Not in the context of the army. A Varghulf is autonomous, allows marching within 6", has a lot of hitting power and high WS, and is tough and manoeuvrable: totally different to the rest of the army. He compensates for an undead weakness, hence he costs more points and is more valuable.

I generally think Wraiths and a Varghulf is best. True they lack the mega hitting power of Blood Knights, but they are also much easier to protect and control, and are far more versatile.
 

Yanda

Black Knight
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Messages
376
#8
Johnny B said:
Also it costs the same as a war hydra, despite being way inferior.
Not in the context of the army. A Varghulf is autonomous, allows marching within 6", has a lot of hitting power and high WS, and is tough and manoeuvrable: totally different to the rest of the army. He compensates for an undead weakness, hence he costs more points and is more valuable.

I generally think Wraiths and a Varghulf is best. True they lack the mega hitting power of Blood Knights, but they are also much easier to protect and control, and are far more versatile.
Like I said in my original response, there isnt 1 true anwser. Each of our rares have strengths and weaknesses against different armies and while we could debate which one is better in a general list there is no right anwser.
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
1,549
#9
Yanda said:
vargaulf is under US 5 and therefore cant negate enemy rank bonus's. Also it costs the same as a war hydra, despite being way inferior.
That's why you have some rank breaking wolves in support, varghulf can eat some things then there will be little to strike back against the wolves (i.e easy to gain combat res)
 

Mictom

Skeleton
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Messages
54
#10
i usually field a varghulf as i think it is a really solid choice for the point costs. often it really helps me to have another vampire on the flanks as i usually play with 2 vamps and on wight king and have them mostly in the center of the battlefield.

as for the wraiths+banshee - for me they are a no brainer. i usually use them as distraction, magic missile sponge and for the howl. can't tell you how many dangerous things the howl has already taken out - a lucky roll against chaos knights or stegadons and they bite the dust. and if the army is lacking magical attacks they will lay waste on them...

the other two choices, i think they are more of fun choices. the black coach is at times just too unreliable and the blood knights are kinda a sealed book for me (i am missing the tactical finesse to maximise their output)
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
18
#11
Mictom said:
...the blood knights are kinda a sealed book for me (i am missing the tactical finesse to maximise their output)
Isn't Blood Knights so strong that you can just charge into more or less anything and massacre it? I don't have much VC battle experience (I just started collecting them, so I havn't actually played a game with them yet:'()
 

Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
2,887
#12
Nathaniel van Volbloed said:
Mictom said:
...the blood knights are kinda a sealed book for me (i am missing the tactical finesse to maximise their output)
Isn't Blood Knights so strong that you can just charge into more or less anything and massacre it? I don't have much VC battle experience (I just started collecting them, so I havn't actually played a game with them yet:'()

The problem lies in the execution of that plan. Learning how to properly use frenzied troops can be challenging, especially versus an experienced opponent.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Messages
106
#13
I would say that the choice really depends on the composition of your army - Bloodknights and the vargulf work well no matter how much magic you have, but the black coach and wraiths rely on you dominating magic. The black coach will only power up if close to a lot of wizards, and the Wraiths are very vulnerable to magic and a huge target for any wizard.

At the same time, the first 3 choices work very well in a more mobile army while the wraiths and Black coach work well to support infantry. What else do you normally take?
 
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