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Which Books Are Needed Most?

Noobafrass

Grave Guard
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
276
#1
Hey folks!

I'm tossing this question specifically to the tournament players, but I"m interested in all answers. My local meta is small and we don't get much info from the "real world", so-to-speak.

Which armies with non-8th edition books most need an update? Broken mechanics, underpowered armies due to out-dated rules, and any other considerations that would have to do with this question.

Or, on the other side, are things fine with all books and they shouldn't change anything?

I look forward to reading the thoughts here
 

El Syf

Crypt Horror
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
579
#2
Well they all need to be singing from the same hymn sheet I think. So lets see start with Bretonians as I think their book is the oldest one.
 

Sweeney Todd

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
4,036
#3
Without a doubt, Wood Elves, with Brettonians coming a close second. 8ed was basically designed with the express intention of punching Wood Elf players in the crotch, so it's high time they started wearing reinforced boxers in a manner of speaking.
 

Noobafrass

Grave Guard
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
276
#4
Sweeney Todd said:
Without a doubt, Wood Elves, with Brettonians coming a close second. 8ed was basically designed with the express intention of punching Wood Elf players in the crotch, so it's high time they started wearing reinforced boxers in a manner of speaking.
why do you say that?
 

Johnny-Crass

Vampire Ancient
True Blood
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
6,640
#7
Lizards are no fun to play against and DE are so undercosted the only way to controll their book is through comp
 

Sweeney Todd

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
4,036
#8
Lizzies and DE can take a queue number, Woodies should come first since those two books are at least viable(overly viable, even). As it stands now the Wood Elf book itself is unplayable. Wood Elves had a unique playstyle of having few or no RnF units, indeed they have very little such choices in the book in the first place. The heavy emphasis on RnF that 8ed places thus automatically excludes the vast majority of their armybook. With Step Up, their fragile combat skirmishers have no way of avoiding being clobbered to death by return attacks from regular units.

The changes to the way forests work(and TLOS in general) negated one of their biggest strengths. And not only did 8ed boost RnF units, it is also designed to screw skirmishers in every orifice you can imagine. The very idea of skirmishers moving in a kind of formation can be deduced as incredibly daft right from the get go; I don't care that it's a 'loose formation', it's still a formation! And skirmishers are supposed to be units that don't move in formation! Wonder which one of the designers had a cup of undiluted twat over at GW HQ when they wrote up that bit. Anyway, since Wood Elves are the skirmisher army, nerfing them means nerfing the Woodies. Those changes, combined with the rest of 8ed, was basically a hydraulic drill up the rectum for them.
 

Bounce

Varghulf
Joined
May 3, 2012
Messages
746
#9
Wood elves are still pretty tough I think. They are definitely not unplayable and I have seen them win multiple tournaments.
However I do think they and brettonians deserve a new book next. Simply because they have been waiting a very long time.
I also think Lizards, Dark Elves, Demons and Skaven could be tuned down a bit.
High Elves and Dwarves have also been ages since they last had a book too...
 
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
495
#10
I'd say wood elves first, then dwarfs, then brets. WE because their style of play has been pretty much made into a nearly mono-list army, and they desperately need knew models, then dwarfs, because they really need a revamp on the warmachines/their runes. And finally brets because, while not nearly as bad as WE, they need a serious reconsideration on their main style of play.
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
Staff member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
27,916
#12
Yeah Sweeney's descriptions are also well worth the read. I have got to agree with him though, to make WE usable you pretty can't used any variation of themed list unless you want to get walked over.

The odd thing is I have no idea why the messed up the skirmishing rules so much in the 8th, its not as if skirmishing in general was broken in the 7th?
 
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
495
#13
DoN, it is partly because they don't get any ranks. Ever. This means they can't make a horde, which is a pretty big part of 8th, and as a small part, it is a pain to move them.
 

Noobafrass

Grave Guard
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
276
#14
And I agree that having skirmishers "almost" rank up is silly at best for lore-reasons, but I think I understand why they did it. THe movement phase is already so complicated in this game, it just makes sense to try to force everything into blocks so that the rules have fewer exceptions (and there's still no shortage)
 

Yorga

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Messages
1,850
#15
Johnny-Crass said:
Lizards are no fun to play against and DE are so undercosted the only way to controll their book is through comp
So agree about lizardmen but since I joined the Druchii...:innocent:
 

Narenzade

Wight King
Joined
Mar 22, 2012
Messages
465
#16
TL;DR

Because they're too stronk -
Lizards, Dark Elves and Skaven

Because they blow -
Brets, Wood Elves and Dwarves

All in approximately that order.
 

Yorga

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Messages
1,850
#17
Narenzade said:
TL;DR

Because they're too stronk -
Lizards, Dark Elves and Skaven

Because they blow -
Brets, Wood Elves and Dwarves

All in approximately that order.
My Dark Elves and High Elves have yet been able to beat my son's Dwarves. Tie was the best I could manage when the terrain was horribly against him. Brets do NOT blow. I still know people who get Best General with them.
 

Johnny-Crass

Vampire Ancient
True Blood
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
6,640
#18
No army in WHFB blow IMO. Its the player that makes the army unlike 40k in which the army makes the player. Wood Elves won this years Aus Masters and Bretonnia won last years Alamo GT and Oncebitten360 won a East Coast tourny with Beastmen a while back
 

Noobafrass

Grave Guard
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
276
#19
I've actually heard that if you're in a tournament and come across a Wood Elf or Bret player that you should be concerned, as they're probably quite good.
 

Noobafrass

Grave Guard
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
276
#21
I don't remember, actually, but our little friend group has taken it as Gospel since we did (since none of us have ever been to a tournament)
 

Narenzade

Wight King
Joined
Mar 22, 2012
Messages
465
#23
I'm really bad and just repost what I read on various forums.

I'm a Sheeple.

To be honest though, I do feel the same way. Anything can win on any day.
 
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