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Who is the Greatest Enemy of Vampire Counts?

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#1
There's a lot of armies that don't really give Vampire Counts much trouble- greenskins, Empire, High/ Dark Elves, and there's usually a common theme: vulnerability to pyschology. Similarly, the armies that give us the greatest problems usually have lots of troops that are immune to pyschology- Wood Elves, Chaos Khorne and Tomb Kings for example. But which would you say is the most difficult opponent?

Personally I think I would have to go with Tomb Kings. The army is a lot like Vampire Counts in many ways, but it just has so many advantages over our army that we lack. For example the Casket of Souls affects everything, whereas the Banshee is utterly useless- she can't even march block the army! Tomb Kings have so many special tricks as well, from tunnelling Tomb Scorpions, to the Curse that affects anything that kills a Tomb Prince/ King. Not just the General either- kill any Prince and you have to pass a leadership test or take D6 wounds, not even able to take a Ward Save or Regeneration rolls- outrageous! Okay I'm just a bit bitter about that one, as it meant my reward for my Lahmian Countess' skill in combat meant she had to take the leadership test, which I of course rolled a 10 for, and she took 4 wounds and so I lost the game- for playing well. Then there's the crumbling rules: we take a crumble test at the end of the phase and every turn thereafter; Tomb Kings only take them in the turns after. Even their movement spell is better, allowing units to charge a full 16" if it goes off, compared to just 8" for VHD.

What are other peoples' experience again Tomb Kings? Do you think there is an army that is harder for us to beat?
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
136
#2
You was not punished for playing well in regard to your Lahmia count, you was punished for taking a risk, you might as well have been rewarded, but it all boils down to you taking a risk.

Tomb kings are hard to beat, but I still believe Wood Elves are better, as they are hard to catch, have rocket hard units that can chop our general to bits (treeman ancient), crazy shooting, good magic, terrain advantages.

We have, lots of men to be killed...
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#3
I flanked a unit of Chariots and wiped them out leaving the Prince on foot, who I proceeded to kill... and it cost me the game. I think that counts as a punishment ;) I just generally dislike armies being overloaded with special rules that make little to no sense and can change the game so drastically... I also dislike Wood Elves, a lot :D
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
770
#4
Having not played against TK, only with them, I can't comment. IMO the hardest opponent for me is Khorne as a VC player. So many DD, so many attacks, so much scope and range for the list and just so hard...
 

Falahk

Grave Guard
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
288
#5
the 3 hardest foes, does IMO goes like this:
1. High Elves
2. Dwarfs
3. Tomb Kings

High Elves, no contest.....well its on build of HE i will talk about here.....the flames/drain combo with both rings that will tap your magic phase and usaly kill your necros(if it dont kill the necros somthing else probebly will since you will basicly be forced to have them outside units)....well to put it like this, my HE is not going to lose against a ballanced VC list(having locked up a 9pd vamp magic phase with pirapt and book, w/o using a singel scroll i should know what i talk about here)
my HE:
http://www.asur.org.uk/ulthuan/viewtopic.php?t=21744


Dwarfs.....what can i say, lots of shooting and usaly lots of units that dont care mutch about fear.....scoring a big win agaist this guys is usaly imposible.....honestly the best i have got agaist dwarfs is draws and one stinging defet against danceman(damn new miscast table and the slayer musician)

my largest trubles agaist TK have been to protect Necromancers from the scorpions and my general from the Tomb King with flail of skulls(in chariot unit with the +1 to hit banner)......but i have been helped latly by playing von carstine(great weapons)
 

DarkHand6

Grave Guard
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
244
#6
my VC dont really have any nemesis - i haven't lost to Khorne and only once to TK, although i did staret using them before the new WE so i cant really judge how good they would be.

Demonic legion though! They are evil!
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#7
Lol, it's funny seeing peoples' responses. High Elves? Hahahahahaha. High Elves are utterly rubbish against Vampires, and while that is probably the strongest build you could come up with, it shouldn't be a problem. A S3 hit for every model? Yeah, that'd be horrible if it wasn't for the fact that only Zombies will take significant casualties (Boo hoo). Drain Magic? Can be nasty, but if the victim is going to be using dice to dispel Flames then it's far less important. With just one archmage trying to cast high-powered spells, you will suffer a LOT from miscasts. My tournament list + Black Coach + slightly bigger units would have no problems (Especially since the only magic items my Lord carries are a sword and 15 point dice storer).

Daemonic Legions as an answer also amuses me- I've never had a problem against them, from several different gods.
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
152
#8
I'd say Dwarfs myself, but thats because i'm so used to playing against really cheesy gunline armies...:rolleyes:
I've never played DL, but i've heard they can be very nasty to deal with...
 

Falahk

Grave Guard
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
288
#9
EvC said:
Lol, it's funny seeing peoples' responses. High Elves? Hahahahahaha. High Elves are utterly rubbish against Vampires, and while that is probably the strongest build you could come up with, it shouldn't be a problem. A S3 hit for every model? Yeah, that'd be horrible if it wasn't for the fact that only Zombies will take significant casualties (Boo hoo). Drain Magic? Can be nasty, but if the victim is going to be using dice to dispel Flames then it's far less important. With just one archmage trying to cast high-powered spells, you will suffer a LOT from miscasts. My tournament list + Black Coach + slightly bigger units would have no problems (Especially since the only magic items my Lord carries are a sword and 15 point dice storer).

Daemonic Legions as an answer also amuses me- I've never had a problem against them, from several different gods.
i disagree, last tourny i went to i faced 2 "normal" VC armies(similar to your own lists EvC to be honest), i won both games one by a solid and one by masacer with my HE, and in both thos games both me end my opponent could tell i was going to win by turn 3.....also when i was at gothcon we had a good VC player whining on how overpowerd HE was during the pub round, after an encounter with Thorsten "Eldarien"'s HE(a slightly more evil incarnation of the list i use...no suprise really since my list is a lot inspierd by his...dragon princes, reaverbow commander on an eagle, shadow warriors and a battle banner commander insted of swords, archers and a helm unit i think it was)

as for miscasts, i dont use to have mutch truble with them even if i suffered 6 miscasts the 2 latest games.....masacer agaist Nagathis WE and draw against a skaven list he was testing(draw becouse the archmage decided it was a good thing to blast himself with a s6 hit insted of the plauge cencor bearers that proceded to kill my swords....), in the 5 games befor that i only sufferd a singel miscast

also, i counted 180pts of magic items in your latest VC list EvC....so you are going to try dispelling that ring of corin....trust me on that, also you will probebly try to dispell the ring of fury(to save your banshee and hosts)......that leaves you with 2 dice(possibly 3 with pirapt) and a scroll to defend against a 3 dice Drain(cast on 7+ most of the time) and a 4 dice flames (if i roll low on my banner), all logic tells me i will break your defence on turn 2 or 3, and after that all you will do in your own casting phase is to dispell flames......in short you have no magic phase and you are hunting ghosts, or should i say High Elves that will only enter profitable combats or back away and shoot you
 

Danceman

The Devil in Pale Moonlight
True Blood
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
3,461
#10
The most problem I´ve had with my VC are against Khorne and Dwarfs. Both are strong in magic defence and they can really dominate the combat phase and with dwarfs also the shooting phase.
You cant always "bait and misdirect" a khorne player, a well played Khorne army is no picnic.

Falahk: Always take that musican :D
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#11
Okay, to be more clear, you'd probably do well against bad VC players who don't know the few strengths of High Elves- but against a VC army that doesn't give a damn about magic items (Like Blood Dragons with lots of abilities) or a canny opponent you'd not get far. So you cast Drain Magic on my Level 3 on 7+, so I discard 6s and 5s. That's fine, that leaves my Necromancer 3 dice to play with, the Book of Arkhan, and I can probably then cast a level 1 Invocation with the Lady for a few more troops. You'll dispel some of that, sure, then I dispel or store a dice, leaving me with 6DD to take care of the next wave. I let you go for Drain Magic again, dispel both your rings, you keep throwing dice at me etc., now you may have had five games without a miscast in a row, and it may not have cost you many games, but that's luck. Personally I always take the Staff of Solidity with my High Elf Archmages. The alternate list of mine that'd you'd face would have Mannfred von Carstein, and I'd let you cast all the Drain Magic you like, I still get one free spell (Power 10/11) every turn, and the bound Book of Arkhan from my Necromancer. Of course if I were playing regular von Carsteins and were using the von Carstein Ring and had that nullified I'd probably whine about overpowered High Elf scum too ;)

The only way your army would triumph is if you sat units like your Swordmasters behind a hill to deny me the ability to kill them, deployed your Bolt Throwers right by the table edge etc. and generally played like an ass, but then I guess we're talking about GT-standard playing, not playing for fun :)
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
228
#12
Int he 6th edition when i played my vamps a lot the army i hated most was skaven as they countered all our main threngths:

1 - ld9-10 for fear tests, banshee scream, panic was mitigated
2 - lots of mages, so our magic was held in check
3 - magic shooting, our etherial troops were toast
4 - large numbers so beating them and auto breaking them was tough


Our of all troosp out there i could never beat them - at a tournament style level, other armies not a prob or id give as good as i gave
 
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